Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game - page 194.

akeetlebeetle

full member

Activity: 221

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Quote from: petrescuerz on July 23, 2013, 11:16:01 PM

Quote from: akeetlebeetle on July 23, 2013, 11:07:00 PM

Your IP address has been blocked for an hour for suspicious activity. Sorry for the inconvenience.

What causes this?

This is usually caused by making too many new accounts, reloading the page too many times, using bots, or spamming the chat. If you wait you will be able to log in again from your IP. Let me know if you are having any other problems.

Deb

Problem is, I did none of those. I bet a little and I bet fast (keyboard shortcuts), but that's all. I went to reinvest what I was playing with and it wouldn't let me, so I refreshed (the first and only time) and that's when I was banned.

petrescuerz

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Activity: 102

Merit: 10

Quote from: akeetlebeetle on July 23, 2013, 11:07:00 PM

Your IP address has been blocked for an hour for suspicious activity. Sorry for the inconvenience.

What causes this?

This is usually caused by making too many new accounts, reloading the page too many times, using bots, or spamming the chat. If you wait you will be able to log in again from your IP. Let me know if you are having any other problems.

Deb

akeetlebeetle

full member

Activity: 221

Merit: 100

Your IP address has been blocked for an hour for suspicious activity. Sorry for the inconvenience.

What causes this?

davos

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

Quote from: dooglus on July 23, 2013, 12:46:07 PM

Quote from: davos on July 22, 2013, 05:27:14 PM

If the 'prize pool' is 10% of the investment pool:

It's 1%, not 10%. Other than that you seem to be on the right track, but it's hard to be sure, given the above error.

I think I was a bit off anyway, separately from that.

One invests BTCx in the JD bank and can basically determine what % of their investment is 'live' at any time. Whatever amount that is will be proportionally helped or hurt by the wins and losses.

If someone has 100% of their investment live at any time, then when the prize pool goes down by 10%, so does their entire investment. If someone has 10% of their investment live at any time, they'd only lose 1% of their investment. If someone has 1% of their investment live at any time, they lose 0.1%.

I think that seems 'more right', at least to me. The thing that I was trying to understand was this idea of 'onsite' vs 'offsite' investments. I didn't like the terminology, as I was understanding it, I suppose.

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: davos on July 22, 2013, 05:27:14 PM

If the 'prize pool' is 10% of the investment pool:

It's 1%, not 10%. Other than that you seem to be on the right track, but it's hard to be sure, given the above error.

dance4x

full member

Activity: 143

Merit: 100

Quote from: camolist on July 22, 2013, 03:21:20 PM

Quote from: dance4x on July 22, 2013, 11:45:22 AM

Yes the $50 payment can be made with bitcoin. I'll be on #bitcoin-otc for most of today. If you don't see me on there we can set it up tomorrow.

I don't have access to my OTC long term (likely a few months before I'm back in the area with that offline signing machine)

If you're uncomfortable using just bitcointalk Maybe we could get just dice to confirm a deposit / lock the account for that period of time sort of as an escrow?

hey. is there any way you can prove you are the same person from the ratings in your Sig?

davos

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

I'll apologize ahead of time for not having read this whole discussion.

It seems to me that if you're depositing 10% of the total invested balance you want considered as a portion of the total, then the 'active' amount of funds on deposit would be based on the amount invested.

If you deposit BTC10 based on an investment of BTC10, a gain to the pool of 1% affects your deposit balance by +1%
If you deposit BTC10 based on an investment of BTC100, a loss to the pool of 1% affects your deposit balance by -10%

If the 'prize pool' is 10% of the investment pool:

Guy invests BTC100 and deposits BTC100; investment pool is now BTC10,000; prize pool is BTC1,000
Punter bets and wins BTC100 from prize pool; investment pool is now BTC9,900; prize pool is now BTC990; Guys's balance is now BTC99
Guy2 invests BTC100 but only deposits BTC10; investment pool is now BTC10,000; prize pool is now BTC1000

Punter2 bets and wins BTC100 from prize pool; investment pool is now BTC9,900; prize pool is now BTC990; Guy's balance is now BTC98.01; Guy2's balance is now BTC9

This is what I was assuming dooglas was talking about - am I way off?

----
edit:
To Rephrase: When you're talking about counting non-deposited funds as a part of the available investment pool, you're really just talking about offering 'investors' the ability to take more (or even less, as the 10% deposit could just as easily be the 200% deposit dropping the risk on deposit from 10% to 5%) risk. As the prize pool is an explicit function of the investment pool (10%, right?) - the minimum you could ever have is 10/100 deposit/investment. Another way to state this would be 10:1 investment risk. There's actually no real maximum, although a practical one would be useful. You could have a 1:10 investment risk where for every 10 on deposit the system only records 1 in the investment pool (and therefore .1 in the prize pool).

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: wolverine.ks on July 22, 2013, 02:07:12 PM

Quote from: dooglus on July 21, 2013, 02:57:36 PM

If the amount they have on-site is less than 1% of their total onsite and off then a "force-divest-all" happens, since they are no longer able to cover the required 1% of their total. This is before the gambler bets, so we don't find ourselves in the position of being unable to pay out a max profit that we promised.

would you divest them all? or divest the off site portion of their investment until it balanced back out to 99% off site and 1% onsite?

I think I would divest the full investment. I don't want to be divesting a little bit each time a bet takes the bankroll down another satoshi. This situation only ever occurs if your offsite holdings are more than 99 times your actual deposit, which shouldn't ever happen for careful investors. If you're going to leverage yourself so high that you can't afford to lose a single bet, then I'll divest you until you change something.

camolist

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Quote from: dance4x on July 22, 2013, 11:45:22 AM

Yes the $50 payment can be made with bitcoin. I'll be on #bitcoin-otc for most of today. If you don't see me on there we can set it up tomorrow.

I don't have access to my OTC long term (likely a few months before I'm back in the area with that offline signing machine)

If you're uncomfortable using just bitcointalk Maybe we could get just dice to confirm a deposit / lock the account for that period of time sort of as an escrow?

GeoRW

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 257

Trust No One

Quote from: Deprived on July 22, 2013, 01:04:06 PM

Quote from: GeoRW on July 22, 2013, 12:48:09 PM

Quote from: infested999 on July 21, 2013, 12:25:09 PM

Quote from: GeoRW on July 21, 2013, 10:48:57 AM

I don't like the idea about fractional investing. There will be huge swings when some whale plays. Many people woud lie about their actual balances and anything based on lie will go bust sooner or later. If some whale wins large amounts, many of investors go bust and you won't have much of them left. And as was already mentioned, this is another way how you can cheat and take money from investors.

Yea that's to weed out all the idiot investors. After the dumb ones leave the smart people will have a larger % of site bankroll provided so we make big bucks and you make nothing.

The thing is that everyone will be doing it sooner or later, at least for 50% or so. There's not much of a chancefor bankroll to lose that much, isn't it?. If you give people chance to cheat they will do it and eventually everyone will be doing it for not to lose his share on profit. The same happened in the world economy before the financial crisis; everyone was doing risky business in order to survive in the tough competition and at the end everyone was impacted with the consequences. This is not good for investors in general and it is just another way how Dooglus can cheat on investors actually. I hoped that I will never see such things in bitcoin economy but here we go, the greed is too big :-)

I think you're misunderstanding the proposal. It's not lying in the context of this to enter a local balance that you either don't have or don't plan to invest. It's entirely valid -and not cheating - to use that figure to control your personal exposure. Local balance is just a notional balance that you want to be considered, without obligation, as having when determining your exposure to action.

The rest of your concern IS valid - that it could end up pressurising people into increasing their risk exposure to keep up with others. But that's something investors have to decide for themselves - it isn't (and shouldn't be) a major concern for dooglus (it's a gambling site - so its whole purpose is to allow people to do risky/-EV things with their BTC).

Road to hell is paved with good intentions Wink

wolverine.ks

sr. member

Activity: 375

Merit: 250

Quote from: dooglus on July 21, 2013, 02:57:36 PM

If the amount they have on-site is less than 1% of their total onsite and off then a "force-divest-all" happens, since they are no longer able to cover the required 1% of their total. This is before the gambler bets, so we don't find ourselves in the position of being unable to pay out a max profit that we promised.

would you divest them all? or divest the off site portion of their investment until it balanced back out to 99% off site and 1% onsite?

dance4x

full member

Activity: 143

Merit: 100

Quote from: Deprived on July 22, 2013, 12:52:12 PM

Quote from: dance4x on July 22, 2013, 11:25:27 AM

I am currently looking for a way to borrow from my investment in Just Dice. Here is what I propose:

1) I pay you $50.
2) You create a Just Dice account and put 17 bitcoin in it.
3) 30 days later I buy the total value of that Just Dice investment from you for 17 bitcoin. You keep the $50.

This is a 40% annual return for whoever wants it. You will need to have some kind of reputation to be a part of this deal. PM me if interested. Thanks.

Problem with that is two-fold:

If they intended to invest in J-D anyway then obviously it makes no sense.
If they didn't intend to invest in J-D then if J-D makes a loss of more than $50 on a 17 BTC investment they're looking at having to trust you to keep the deal.

If you're dishonest (and I'm NOT saying you are) then it makes perfect sense for you - you make more than your $50 if J-D performs anywhere near expectation and you're protected against a heavy loss as you can just walk away and try again on another new forum account if a whale gives J-D a kicking.

Anyone looking to take this deal needs to be very confident you'll pay up even if J-D takes a loss - and I doubt there's that many people who both trust you AND won't invest in J-D themselves for a higher expected return.

Valid points. It would be rather unlikely for the losses to be greater than 3 or 4 bitcoin, and I have been trusted with that relatively small amount of money in the past. You also have to remember that the lender could simply keep the profits if JD has a great month. But yes, there will definitely be some finer details that will need to be worked out.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: GeoRW on July 22, 2013, 12:48:09 PM

Quote from: infested999 on July 21, 2013, 12:25:09 PM

Quote from: GeoRW on July 21, 2013, 10:48:57 AM

I don't like the idea about fractional investing. There will be huge swings when some whale plays. Many people woud lie about their actual balances and anything based on lie will go bust sooner or later. If some whale wins large amounts, many of investors go bust and you won't have much of them left. And as was already mentioned, this is another way how you can cheat and take money from investors.

Yea that's to weed out all the idiot investors. After the dumb ones leave the smart people will have a larger % of site bankroll provided so we make big bucks and you make nothing.

The thing is that everyone will be doing it sooner or later, at least for 50% or so. There's not much of a chancefor bankroll to lose that much, isn't it?. If you give people chance to cheat they will do it and eventually everyone will be doing it for not to lose his share on profit. The same happened in the world economy before the financial crisis; everyone was doing risky business in order to survive in the tough competition and at the end everyone was impacted with the consequences. This is not good for investors in general and it is just another way how Dooglus can cheat on investors actually. I hoped that I will never see such things in bitcoin economy but here we go, the greed is too big :-)

I think you're misunderstanding the proposal. It's not lying in the context of this to enter a local balance that you either don't have or don't plan to invest. It's entirely valid -and not cheating - to use that figure to control your personal exposure. Local balance is just a notional balance that you want to be considered, without obligation, as having when determining your exposure to action.

The rest of your concern IS valid - that it could end up pressurising people into increasing their risk exposure to keep up with others. But that's something investors have to decide for themselves - it isn't (and shouldn't be) a major concern for dooglus (it's a gambling site - so its whole purpose is to allow people to do risky/-EV things with their BTC).

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: dance4x on July 22, 2013, 11:25:27 AM

I am currently looking for a way to borrow from my investment in Just Dice. Here is what I propose:

1) I pay you $50.
2) You create a Just Dice account and put 17 bitcoin in it.
3) 30 days later I buy the total value of that Just Dice investment from you for 17 bitcoin. You keep the $50.

This is a 40% annual return for whoever wants it. You will need to have some kind of reputation to be a part of this deal. PM me if interested. Thanks.

Problem with that is two-fold:

If they intended to invest in J-D anyway then obviously it makes no sense.
If they didn't intend to invest in J-D then if J-D makes a loss of more than $50 on a 17 BTC investment they're looking at having to trust you to keep the deal.

If you're dishonest (and I'm NOT saying you are) then it makes perfect sense for you - you make more than your $50 if J-D performs anywhere near expectation and you're protected against a heavy loss as you can just walk away and try again on another new forum account if a whale gives J-D a kicking.

Anyone looking to take this deal needs to be very confident you'll pay up even if J-D takes a loss - and I doubt there's that many people who both trust you AND won't invest in J-D themselves for a higher expected return.

GeoRW

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 257

Trust No One

Quote from: infested999 on July 21, 2013, 12:25:09 PM

Quote from: GeoRW on July 21, 2013, 10:48:57 AM

I don't like the idea about fractional investing. There will be huge swings when some whale plays. Many people woud lie about their actual balances and anything based on lie will go bust sooner or later. If some whale wins large amounts, many of investors go bust and you won't have much of them left. And as was already mentioned, this is another way how you can cheat and take money from investors.

Yea that's to weed out all the idiot investors. After the dumb ones leave the smart people will have a larger % of site bankroll provided so we make big bucks and you make nothing.

The thing is that everyone will be doing it sooner or later, at least for 50% or so. There's not much of a chancefor bankroll to lose that much, isn't it?. If you give people chance to cheat they will do it and eventually everyone will be doing it for not to lose his share on profit. The same happened in the world economy before the financial crisis; everyone was doing risky business in order to survive in the tough competition and at the end everyone was impacted with the consequences. This is not good for investors in general and it is just another way how Dooglus can cheat on investors actually. I hoped that I will never see such things in bitcoin economy but here we go, the greed is too big :-)

joele

legendary

Activity: 1022

Merit: 1000

JD should have option to transfer btc fund to other account, required 2fa when transferring of course.

themagicdrake

newbie

Activity: 50

Merit: 0

Quote from: dance4x on July 22, 2013, 11:25:27 AM

I am currently looking for a way to borrow from my investment in Just Dice. Here is what I propose:

1) I pay you $50.
2) You create a Just Dice account and put 17 bitcoin in it.
3) 30 days later I buy the total value of that Just Dice investment from you for 17 bitcoin. You keep the $50.

This is a 40% annual return for whoever wants it. You will need to have some kind of reputation to be a part of this deal. PM me if interested. Thanks.

Ha, starting up a JD options market, are we?

bitfish

full member

Activity: 174

Merit: 100

A Coin A Day Keeps The Cold Away.

Quote from: Rannasha on July 22, 2013, 05:09:03 AM

To check the "RNG" you can simply implement the algorithm yourself and run a huge number of test-runs.

Yeah, you can implement the algo and check the RNG.
But by this you cannot check whether the actual numbers
delivered by the web site are showing some signs of non randomness.

BTW: How was implementation of client secret done?
CS isn't influencing number generation in that script presented.

It is like testing performance data of a jet engine using a test bed
or flying a plane with that engine installed.

Even if the engine is running fine on the test bed - doing
a test flight cannot be wrong. Just to be sure Wink

http://www.random.org/analysis/

dance4x

full member

Activity: 143

Merit: 100

Quote from: camolist on July 22, 2013, 11:34:12 AM

Quote from: dance4x on July 22, 2013, 11:25:27 AM

I am currently looking for a way to borrow from my investment in Just Dice. Here is what I propose:

1) I pay you $50.
2) You create a Just Dice account and put 17 bitcoin in it.
3) 30 days later I buy the total value of that Just Dice investment from you for 17 bitcoin. You keep the $50.

This is a 40% annual return for whoever wants it. You will need to have some kind of reputation to be a part of this deal. PM me if interested. Thanks.

I'd do this. $50 via bitcoin correct?

Ill be free after 3pm (eastern us) Monday and free all day Tuesday to get this going

Yes the $50 payment can be made with bitcoin. I'll be on #bitcoin-otc for most of today. If you don't see me on there we can set it up tomorrow.

infested999

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 500

Quote from: dance4x on July 22, 2013, 11:25:27 AM

I am currently looking for a way to borrow from my investment in Just Dice. Here is what I propose:

1) I pay you $50.
2) You create a Just Dice account and put 17 bitcoin in it.
3) 30 days later I buy the total value of that Just Dice investment from you for 17 bitcoin. You keep the $50.

This is a 40% annual return for whoever wants it. You will need to have some kind of reputation to be a part of this deal. PM me if interested. Thanks.

So doog gets $50 for putting 17 BTC into your JD account, but doog only gets the 17 BTC 30 days later.

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