Topic: Kano vs Bitsyncom - page 2. (Read 15342 times)

I see what Kan says a little differently. He and Con make CGMiner. It is their project. They fix things, improve things, and change things. Kano did state correctly that it is nearly impossible to actually test the fixes, improvements, and changes effect on Avalon without a test unit. Kano Could put in fixes that "Might" work but without testing Kano can't say they "Do" work.

As I remember it Kano asked for access to an Avalon (don't think he said shipped to him) for testing. Kano also asked for a copy of the changes made to CGMiner. All seemingly above board.

The problem seems to be that some people believe that they should make free money off Con and Kano's work. It is free software so you don't pay initially. Both developers work very hard to make CGMiner awesome. I personally really like it.

If Kano or Con have an issue with Avalon for:
(1) releasing with a version of CGMiner that wont stay up long enough without crashing.
(2) give no way for the actual DEVELOPERS to fix the issus. (No Source)
I see no issue with Kano and Con having and issue.

Their project is great. Bug fixes come out quickly after a bug is found. Changes are made to reduce CPU load and usually memory use frequently. The problem is without having a unit to write a driver using or source for a driver it is improbable that the bugfixes and updates will be available to Avalon customers.

If I had paid for an Avalon I would be pissed. The units require more power, are apparently impossible to ship outside of 2 people, and have no source code limiting the purchasers chance of getting access to the updates CGMiner puts out.

Maybe you can say Kano would like to have a unit for free. I would. Sadly when Kano gets a unit it isn't free. A unit shipped to Kano is a bill in that Kano spends time adding or fixing compatibility so that it will work optimally for CGMiner. Everyone that uses CGMiner gets the fruits of this labor. Not just Kano. Avalon customers would get very quickly to a unit running a stable release of CGMiner that wouldn't crash daily. Is it good for Avalon's customers to have a developer that will keep Avalon supported with the newest support. I think so. Would it be best to have a person that actually makes a large number of the changes to CGMiner's drivers able to actually test it before release. Again I think so.

Kano and Con had their project used in a for profit business. This is a fact. The source code is required to be released when said unit ships. Also a fact. The source code wasn't released then or at their next arbitrary date for release. Another fact. Essentially Con and Kano work for Avalon for free by supplying Avalons mining program. Without that miner it wouldn't work or Avalon would have had to make their own miner.

A bit off topic here but to possibly enlighten people to why I think Kano or Con might be deserving of some concideration.
When I was younger I had a competitve car stereo system. I selected the speakers, setup the amps and headunit. It was loud. When People rode with me I had only a couple of rules, 1 no country music, and 2 don't turn the volume up. You see I knew that my Subwoofer amp was a little hot for my subwoofers. I also knew where I could set the volume to witout melting voice coils. Now I could have dropped the sesitivity on the amp in question to make it impossible to actually damage the subwoofers but I didn't like the lack of balance. One day I had some friends riding with me and a person heard their favorite song. That person cranks up the volume and for less then 1 second the noise was deafening. (at the volume levels I usually ran it around 140+db) Then a pair of subwoofers stopped working all together. Once the proverbial somke cleared I had a bad attitude. See although I was planning on upgrading either way I hadn't saved the money up for the new Subwoofers. So I had months in front of me without the balanced sound I liked because someone played with a volume button.

More on topic You see Con and Kano can't fix a problem until it is located. Unlike in my story the CGMiner bugs are not normally located until a unit reaches a critical hashing rate or is put into a unit with very low memory. Now the Avalon units could work just fine but it will likely require Con and Kano to rewrite things. Their time is money. Now without a unit they can put out all the changes they want but it isn't a sure things that any changes will work with an Avalon. With an Avalon to test on the code in question would be easier to diagnose or at least check before releasing.

The part that makes me feel for both DEVs is that their project is floating out there not working like it should. This issue is compounded or will be when people start asking on the CGMiner thread for support for their Avalons. This free support likely won't be funded by Avalon. Now I am sure since Kano will help the guy doing the actual support it will be great. But I wouldn't call a DEV who by virtue of essentially stolen (violation of GPL) software is now required to help people get their expensive Avalons running greedy. He has given a lot of time to making peoples FPGA's and soon ASICS work. I bet he would get called worse asking for an hourly amount to fix problems for unsupported hardware too.

Now if it was my code I would likely be even more pissed. Someone going around castrating changes I made. Putting on a version that I know won't work correctly. And for the Coup de Gras that group forces me to support it for free. I would be livid. I would be incensed. I would likely say far worse then Kano has said. Possibly I would even say Avalon is not supported. But I am not involved. I just believe that Con and Kano are far underpaid for the work they do for essentially everyone.

@ Kano

In the last page alone you re-established (just like before) that you wanted something from Bitsyncom.

You are throwing a tantrum every other page. Page 0 (I believe) was you commenting on sodomy being performed on Jeff Garzik because "you can't get him to do what you want him to do".

Page 1 through is about you pestering and harassing Bitsyncom. Around which point he tells you to "fuck off" more than once.

Every time you don't get your way your nasty side comes out. Especially if people don't do what you want or expect.

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You demand I fetch proof when you've already repeated (yet again) what you did half a moon ago. You are very episodic and cyclical.

At this point you are just using this thread to convince others of a different narrative of what happened:

That it didn't actually mean what you said....and which you readily reinforce every other page when you get pissed off.

Well, you'll probably convince at least yourself if you don't keep losing your temper and lose it every other page.You seem to have convinced Nathan. So you seem to be working your way to a delusional fabric.

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Look, if I just ask you very specific questions,and get very specific answers, I am pretty sure I can nail you on the points fairly easily. If you try to avoid being nailed, you'll either come out of it making very absurd contortions of your supposed meaning or you'll fail apically in the process.

Sort of an Inaba-ism.

Step 1: Quote me or it ain't true!

Step 2: Then someone quotes it.

Step 3: Respond by saying something akin to "Uh! But! I didn't actually mean what you quoted! You are misinterpreting my words! This is what I actually meant you ."

Actually I think it's quite amusing.
But I will add, that is all I see it as, an amusing quip against me to make me seem something I am not.

The problem is that this idiot SRoulette deludes himself that it's actually truthful ... in his own words
Based on? Nothing. He doesn't need to base anything he believes on reality, just someone said something funny, it must be true.

And yet again a fucking retard making up something that doesn't even exist.

You are arguing against me and implying shit about me based on delusions.
Seriously, not jokingly. You are delusional.

Where did I ever say that bullshit you quoted?
The answer is never.
Quote me or fuck off.

Fucking hell, a bunch of losers trying to make an argument against me, failing and then deciding to make shit up to cover the fact that they are indeed a bunch of losers with no argument.
At least quote something real.

Damn, I've seen people quote me and remove content to make it seem different to what I said.
At least they had the intelligence to actually quote something I said (even if it was out of context).

But again, seriously, making up shit and implying I said it - total fail and total delusion.

No misrepresentation at all!

Self Entitled means He/ She feels something is owed to him, all the time from everyone.

In this context I was referring to his not very subtle demands

Bah! It was a bath-house scene and there was no sex. All tease and no payoff. Boring.

As an aside, what the hell is an "entitled person"? Is this a Google Translate fail, or else what exactly is it to which kano is entitled?

I found it very misleading and only a little bit amusing.

In other words, they shift the goalposts back and forth when it's convenient for them. If you can't ship your fucking units in January, don't fucking say you're shipping in January. That was a hugely misleading move on their part.


In other words, they have refused, and think refusing is a good thing.


What the fuck? Nobody purposefully messes up their own pre-orders. I'm only saying that they were incompetent because they somehow managed to fuck it up. And yes, it's their fault. They had multiple options for payment providers and they picked one which has apparently never handled anything close to this level of demand. If they did their research, they would have picked a provider that had actually done load testing. Online shop fronts should be a solved problem by now...


I'm not suggesting that they should have spent hours upon hours talking to every customer. They must have a system for tracking orders (although it could be pen and paper, I guess. Technology is hard to use right?). It's not hard to have automatic email updates to customers when an order is in build, shipped etc. If they haven't gotten that far then they're fucking liars for suggesting that are building a dozen units per day. Maybe have a quick post every few days on here to keep track of overall progress. This wouldn't take even 1% of one team member's time; they could even do it while taking a shit.

Of course, they've taken the high level of demand as a license for shitting on the face of their customers instead. They know that even if they do that, many are still going to order. Yet, if BFL hasn't fucked up their chips, Avalon will be competing which a company that doesn't leave dark brown stains and a bad smell whenever you deal with them. Unless you troll them over boxes of fans.


Nice of them to be honest about their incompetence.


I don't think anyone really cares what I post about, but it's fun to aggressively take sides. There are enough with blind faith in Avalon (or paid off by them) on the other side to balance it out. Going by the thread title, you're basically expected to take a side.

Kano, there is an 'Ignore' button for trolls like PuertoLibre.
I can say it works like a charm.

You are a rude unpleasant and entitled person, I felt the summary portrayed you in a humorous light very well while being truthful.

Interesting ...

GitSyncom has on a few occasions said he will release the source code.
He even gave a date of almost a week ago and didn't.
But I guess that, in your opinion, is to be expected of him?

Apt based on what?
Feel free to point out where this aptness comes from.
... now 2 morons who cannot quote this so called proof of aptness.

very amusing and apt summary.

I don't see any quotes of what I have said ...
Quote these "re-frames" and "re-spins" or fuck off.
Just coz you say shit, doesn't mean anything.

Bääääm!

PuertoLibre, wrong tape. Use right one:

No, you "poser". I don't have to lie. You said so quite clearly several times. Other people have quoted you before.

Spin is not the basis of an argument.

You are correct, you didn't "demand" you stated you wouldn't be coding for the Avalon (at the time) if you didn't receive any hardware.

When I confronted you about this and told you to pay for it, you had plenty to say about why you didn't think you should. Case closed.

Then you went on a limb, posturing about how you don't believe you should code "for free".

When I put forth the idea that you could make a repayment you avoided the idea with a retort as to why "you think" you should be "compensated".

Every argument you stood behind was about getting free hardware without any payment.

You then went on another limb that "donated" hardware was cheaper than paying a programmer.

Do you see your angle in the grand scheme of things?
 
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Your later hostile attitude followed your [apparent] realization that you weren't going to get your way. Followed by BitSyncom asking you to "fuck off" a few times. (Primarily because you kept pestering him about that and the source code.)


That is nice of you.

But every instance where you have been approached with the idea of purchasing hardware in the last month has been rejected for one reason or another.

Including the idea of paying back the hardware by the coins it generated.

So your past actions has little relevance with your present attitude.

The first point to make is that the MMQ is an FPGA device. It is the older generation and therefore we are again talking about the past.

Now, I fully understand you are unable to buy hardware. Okay, I get it and respect your situation.

There are viable alternatives you could hash out with each company to pay for the devices at either a [possible] discount rate or through the [possible] BTC generated by the device once it is in your hands.

These are all ideas that didn't sit well with you. You made it positively clear you don't want that. (You may perhaps change your mind in the future, who knows?)


Alright.

Now you want "compensation". I have mentioned before that if you want to be compensated then you  should perhaps seek a contract with the vendors.

Not an "implicit" contract, but a very clear and outlined one.

If a company is not willing to play ball, you seem to resort to maligning them. (disguised as other issues.)

I think you are missing the point of open source software.

You give and commit to it freely. If you are looking to use it as a form of implicit hardware exchange, then perhaps you should re-evaluate your goals.

Once Avalon releases the source code you won't have much to begrudge. I doubt that will stop you though.

Your wrapper is coming off.

Here is some tape to hold it together:



You are clearly conflicted. You want people to believe one thing about you in your posturing, but in every other page you reinforce exactly what is being pointed out about you.

Don't slam Jeff, he paid for his hardware. Have you?