I think your proposal for attracting big miners is great. I have only one question and it is only because such large miners are so rare.
Have you considered a proportional reward for miners that are above say 2PH, but less than 10. maybe 0.2 btc for a 2PH rate, or 0.5 btc for a 5PH rate. it is your pool and your reward after all, But I think it might lead to the same endgoal of lots of big miners in the pool, and be easier to find.
Topic: KanoPool kano.is lowest 0.9% fee 🐈 since 2014 - Worldwide - 2432 blocks - page 443. (Read 5352229 times)
February 21, 2018, 07:04:50 PM
February 21, 2018, 06:16:53 PM
Antpool may be having stratum issues. Jump on it.
February 21, 2018, 06:16:37 PM
good question
i have 2-2.2th from 3 miners but i can only run the miners for 10h a day at work so was wondering if its even worth my while mining here
i have 2-2.2th from 3 miners but i can only run the miners for 10h a day at work so was wondering if its even worth my while mining here
Off the cuff math =~.8TH averaged over a day. If you get 10 hours every day, that's about where they will ramp to.
Edit: Found my oops.
February 21, 2018, 06:07:05 PM
how much hashrate do i need for kano pool since you get paid every block to be beneficial to moving to this pool? I may be completely wrong but i read it somewhere if you have low hashrate u may not get pay outs on kano.
To be above dust level I calculated around 500GHs based on previous Block Reward and Total Pool Hashrate if txn's are low as is the case recently...
Mine On!
February 21, 2018, 06:01:45 PM
So at least for me a light bulb just went off..
I always thought about a block as a progress to completion, as such I always wondered what happened when a pool found a block, and what happened to all of the work that other pools/miners had done, were about to do.
Then I found this...
"Contrary to popular belief, mining is not something where there is progress. Each hash has the same probability of being a valid block hash. You could get lucky and find a valid hash with your next hash, or you could not. There is no progress that is made. When you mine on a lower difficulty, the target that your hash must be under is much higher than that of the networks. With enough hashes, someone will eventually find a hash that is lower than the network target, and that hash would also be lower than their pool target. The higher target (thus lower difficulty) is only for tracking who is actually doing work and how much work they are doing so that they can be paid appropriately."
from here - https://captainaltcoin.com/what-is-pool-mining/
So this then solves my problem with what happens when a block is found by another pool. It just an event, and we continue on trying to find another hash that meets the requirements of a *block*
I always thought about a block as a progress to completion, as such I always wondered what happened when a pool found a block, and what happened to all of the work that other pools/miners had done, were about to do.
Then I found this...
"Contrary to popular belief, mining is not something where there is progress. Each hash has the same probability of being a valid block hash. You could get lucky and find a valid hash with your next hash, or you could not. There is no progress that is made. When you mine on a lower difficulty, the target that your hash must be under is much higher than that of the networks. With enough hashes, someone will eventually find a hash that is lower than the network target, and that hash would also be lower than their pool target. The higher target (thus lower difficulty) is only for tracking who is actually doing work and how much work they are doing so that they can be paid appropriately."
from here - https://captainaltcoin.com/what-is-pool-mining/
So this then solves my problem with what happens when a block is found by another pool. It just an event, and we continue on trying to find another hash that meets the requirements of a *block*
My over-simple version: when anyone on the network solves ("finds") the current block, everyone on the network starts on the next one. We haven't been working on the same block for the last 170 hours; it's been 170 hours since we submitted the block-solving hash.
i have 2-2.2th from 3 miners but i can only run the miners for 10h a day at work so was wondering if its even worth my while mining here
February 21, 2018, 05:54:34 PM
how much hashrate do i need for kano pool since you get paid every block to be beneficial to moving to this pool? I may be completely wrong but i read it somewhere if you have low hashrate u may not get pay outs on kano.
This is a good question. I've wondered about it as well. I can tell you, there
is working in favor for them.
Edited upon checking pool stats.
February 21, 2018, 05:51:29 PM
So at least for me a light bulb just went off..
I always thought about a block as a progress to completion, as such I always wondered what happened when a pool found a block, and what happened to all of the work that other pools/miners had done, were about to do.
Then I found this...
"Contrary to popular belief, mining is not something where there is progress. Each hash has the same probability of being a valid block hash. You could get lucky and find a valid hash with your next hash, or you could not. There is no progress that is made. When you mine on a lower difficulty, the target that your hash must be under is much higher than that of the networks. With enough hashes, someone will eventually find a hash that is lower than the network target, and that hash would also be lower than their pool target. The higher target (thus lower difficulty) is only for tracking who is actually doing work and how much work they are doing so that they can be paid appropriately."
from here - https://captainaltcoin.com/what-is-pool-mining/
So this then solves my problem with what happens when a block is found by another pool. It just an event, and we continue on trying to find another hash that meets the requirements of a *block*
I always thought about a block as a progress to completion, as such I always wondered what happened when a pool found a block, and what happened to all of the work that other pools/miners had done, were about to do.
Then I found this...
"Contrary to popular belief, mining is not something where there is progress. Each hash has the same probability of being a valid block hash. You could get lucky and find a valid hash with your next hash, or you could not. There is no progress that is made. When you mine on a lower difficulty, the target that your hash must be under is much higher than that of the networks. With enough hashes, someone will eventually find a hash that is lower than the network target, and that hash would also be lower than their pool target. The higher target (thus lower difficulty) is only for tracking who is actually doing work and how much work they are doing so that they can be paid appropriately."
from here - https://captainaltcoin.com/what-is-pool-mining/
So this then solves my problem with what happens when a block is found by another pool. It just an event, and we continue on trying to find another hash that meets the requirements of a *block*
My over-simple version: when anyone on the network solves ("finds") the current block, everyone on the network starts on the next one. We haven't been working on the same block for the last 170 hours; it's been 170 hours since we submitted the block-solving hash.
February 21, 2018, 05:49:48 PM
how much hashrate do i need for kano pool since you get paid every block to be beneficial to moving to this pool? I may be completely wrong but i read it somewhere if you have low hashrate u may not get pay outs on kano.
February 21, 2018, 05:41:58 PM
So at least for me a light bulb just went off..
I always thought about a block as a progress to completion, as such I always wondered what happened when a pool found a block, and what happened to all of the work that other pools/miners had done, were about to do.
Then I found this...
"Contrary to popular belief, mining is not something where there is progress. Each hash has the same probability of being a valid block hash. You could get lucky and find a valid hash with your next hash, or you could not. There is no progress that is made. When you mine on a lower difficulty, the target that your hash must be under is much higher than that of the networks. With enough hashes, someone will eventually find a hash that is lower than the network target, and that hash would also be lower than their pool target. The higher target (thus lower difficulty) is only for tracking who is actually doing work and how much work they are doing so that they can be paid appropriately."
from here - https://captainaltcoin.com/what-is-pool-mining/
So this then solves my problem with what happens when a block is found by another pool. It just an event, and we continue on trying to find another hash that meets the requirements of a *block*
Yeah there's a few things that happen.I always thought about a block as a progress to completion, as such I always wondered what happened when a pool found a block, and what happened to all of the work that other pools/miners had done, were about to do.
Then I found this...
"Contrary to popular belief, mining is not something where there is progress. Each hash has the same probability of being a valid block hash. You could get lucky and find a valid hash with your next hash, or you could not. There is no progress that is made. When you mine on a lower difficulty, the target that your hash must be under is much higher than that of the networks. With enough hashes, someone will eventually find a hash that is lower than the network target, and that hash would also be lower than their pool target. The higher target (thus lower difficulty) is only for tracking who is actually doing work and how much work they are doing so that they can be paid appropriately."
from here - https://captainaltcoin.com/what-is-pool-mining/
So this then solves my problem with what happens when a block is found by another pool. It just an event, and we continue on trying to find another hash that meets the requirements of a *block*
Generating work for building a block involves adding a bunch of transactions into it also.
All the transactions used up by the block someone else found, are 'thrown out' and we are left with all the other transactions we already know about, to build our current work.
So we have to change 3 things every time someone finds a block:
1) Remove all the transactions used up
2) replace the 'previous hash' with the hash of the last block found
3) replace the block height number in the coinbase transaction with the new block height
Then just continue on as before looking for a block.
As you said, each hash you try is independent of every other hash you try.
It's like rolling a dice, try again, try again, try again - ok found the number we want
The previous tries don't get you closer to getting your result you want.
February 21, 2018, 05:32:45 PM
So at least for me a light bulb just went off..
I always thought about a block as a progress to completion, as such I always wondered what happened when a pool found a block, and what happened to all of the work that other pools/miners had done, were about to do.
Then I found this...
"Contrary to popular belief, mining is not something where there is progress. Each hash has the same probability of being a valid block hash. You could get lucky and find a valid hash with your next hash, or you could not. There is no progress that is made. When you mine on a lower difficulty, the target that your hash must be under is much higher than that of the networks. With enough hashes, someone will eventually find a hash that is lower than the network target, and that hash would also be lower than their pool target. The higher target (thus lower difficulty) is only for tracking who is actually doing work and how much work they are doing so that they can be paid appropriately."
from here - https://captainaltcoin.com/what-is-pool-mining/
So this then solves my problem with what happens when a block is found by another pool. It just an event, and we continue on trying to find another hash that meets the requirements of a *block*
I always thought about a block as a progress to completion, as such I always wondered what happened when a pool found a block, and what happened to all of the work that other pools/miners had done, were about to do.
Then I found this...
"Contrary to popular belief, mining is not something where there is progress. Each hash has the same probability of being a valid block hash. You could get lucky and find a valid hash with your next hash, or you could not. There is no progress that is made. When you mine on a lower difficulty, the target that your hash must be under is much higher than that of the networks. With enough hashes, someone will eventually find a hash that is lower than the network target, and that hash would also be lower than their pool target. The higher target (thus lower difficulty) is only for tracking who is actually doing work and how much work they are doing so that they can be paid appropriately."
from here - https://captainaltcoin.com/what-is-pool-mining/
So this then solves my problem with what happens when a block is found by another pool. It just an event, and we continue on trying to find another hash that meets the requirements of a *block*
February 21, 2018, 05:29:37 PM
...
I suggest considering changing the pools payout system to a proportional payout system.
...
Firstly, people should just ignore his posts and I'll delete them.I suggest considering changing the pools payout system to a proportional payout system.
...
Secondly, to prove how stupid he is, a proportional payout system is bad for long term miners.
They lose a lot of rewards to hoppers.
Read up about payout systems.
Lastly, PPS does indeed have a very high risk of the pool going broke, and at least some of those running PPS pools clearly have no idea of the maths involved, they just happen to have very large pockets.
To resolve that, PPS pools MUST charge much higher fees. It's mandatory.
PPLNS doesn't have that high risk or the need for high fees.
Bitcoin by design, has block finding variance, you can't tell in advance when we will find a block, so a payout system that matches that variance makes perfect sense.
There are a number of PPS pools that have gone bankrupt in the past due to the exact reason as described in the payout analysis done by Meni.
Most miners here...(me at least) mine here because of the present system... PPLNS ...
PPS isn't great........... people love to wine for PPS....wrongly!!
February 21, 2018, 04:52:08 PM
Not the same, kano is paying out of his pocket. We miners aren't paying for it via some of the block reward getting diverted to the 'winner'
(ps. I know the quote above isn't the target of my comments below)
What is it with people... Do they not read? Sheesh
The 10BTC is *NOT* coming from miners rewards, transaction fees, block fees, etc.... It's a completely separate source of BTC that the pool owner has and for some crazy reason (cuz, even with the drop in BTC price today, it's still *a lot of money*), is willing to contribute to actually help those that are mining on his pool.
February 21, 2018, 04:51:07 PM
Could you find that page where you suggested the offer he is promoting and where you were scoffed? Just to validate you are NOT completely full of shit.
Found it:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.29556387
That increases pool variance - high pool variance is something he is CONTINUALLY complaining about.
To be blunt, it's stupid for him to complain about something he is suggesting himself
I've many posts about why a block finder fee (funded by all the other miners) is a bad idea.
February 21, 2018, 04:46:36 PM
Not the same, kano is paying out of his pocket. We miners aren't paying for it via some of the block reward getting diverted to the 'winner'
February 21, 2018, 04:28:24 PM
Could you find that page where you suggested the offer he is promoting and where you were scoffed? Just to validate you are NOT completely full of shit.
Found it:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.29556387
February 21, 2018, 03:43:26 PM
I am all about Team Kano finding a Block not doubting the math. Global Hash rate has doubled rapidly, making the competition even harder. It definitely has had an effect on difficulty. With that said. MINE ON WITH KANO-SAN, the best Bitcoin Mining Pool on Planet Earth. If you have weak knees, this isn't the place for you, but if you understand simple principals of probabilities and like to get paid in larger chunks of BTC, this is the pool, KANO POOL, for you. Mine On!! BTCBTC
February 21, 2018, 03:20:01 PM
I'm hittin' this ramp....like Evil Kenevil!!! Hopefully when I land, the smoke will clear, and we can get back to business.
February 21, 2018, 03:16:19 PM
Mate the only point that you make is that you are an imbecile. Nothing you are saying is new to us "old heads" we knew about it years before you even had an inkling of it in your head. We knew, we consider and we plan our mining around our knowledge, anything you say is just bad gas. I am one of the few have put up with the rubbish spewing from your fingers but its just boring now, so from no on it'll just be when someone who doesn't know better quotes you that I'll have to put up with it.
The number of miners makes no difference, its just about the size of the pool. Its nothing to do with the pool per-se, its to do with the people mining at the pool, and their ability to increase their hash rate to keep the pool and their income viable. Its better to have less miners with more hash power than more miners with less hash power.
If people want to have a consistent income from mining they have to keep buying hardware to keep up with the difficulty, its the same since day 1 of mining and will always be the same.
If anything the difficulty to keep up is to do with the slow down in technology innovation around mining and the greed and control of a single primary supplier. In the past hardware has got faster, more efficient and cheaper, this has changed recently, that and the increase in value of bitcoin and the subsequent "gold rush" mentality of new miners means its tougher and tougher to maintain that steady growth.
People getting into it now are only just realising what we "old heads" knew 18 months ago. You can't do this at home anymore, you have to have your gear colo'ed somewhere with cheap and abundant power. Problem is that there is no room at the inn for most of the hosting companies.
100% Agree (especially the 1st paragraph!!).
I've been meaning to post something very similar to this is what I think almost every time I read most of the new posts.
Mine On!!
Old heads.. haha my old account is from 2011 jackoff.. and looks like Kano is doing the gambling promo that I suggested yet he scoffed at me anyway... but not for small miners of course. But glad he is doing something. Good to try to grab hash from other pools.. I believe the better move is a temporary shortened ramp up time since as pointed out by many, long ramp up times only benefit current big miners since the diff almost always goes up thus your ramp down period isn't equal to your ramp up. But 'old farts' will complain it isn't fair even as the pool evaporates and they do nothing to bring people in
Could you find that page where you suggested the offer he is promoting and where you were scoffed? Just to validate you are NOT completely full of shit.
February 21, 2018, 03:12:23 PM
Slushpool has 40 times the hash power of Kano pool and they sometimes take 5 hours these days to find a block. It’s madness.
February 21, 2018, 02:43:35 PM
...
I suggest considering changing the pools payout system to a proportional payout system.
...
Firstly, people should just ignore his posts and I'll delete them.I suggest considering changing the pools payout system to a proportional payout system.
...
Secondly, to prove how stupid he is, a proportional payout system is bad for long term miners.
They lose a lot of rewards to hoppers.
Read up about payout systems.
Lastly, PPS does indeed have a very high risk of the pool going broke, and at least some of those running PPS pools clearly have no idea of the maths involved, they just happen to have very large pockets.
To resolve that, PPS pools MUST charge much higher fees. It's mandatory.
PPLNS doesn't have that high risk or the need for high fees.
Bitcoin by design, has block finding variance, you can't tell in advance when we will find a block, so a payout system that matches that variance makes perfect sense.
There are a number of PPS pools that have gone bankrupt in the past due to the exact reason as described in the payout analysis done by Meni.
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