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Topic: KanoPool kano.is lowest 0.9% fee 🐈 since 2014 - Worldwide - 2432 blocks - page 496. (Read 5352367 times)

jr. member
Activity: 104
Merit: 5
  • Kanopool grabs a block
  • We work on a whole bunch of math problems designed to help us find an encryption key that "unlocks" the block.  
I may not fully understand your analogy, but take issue with it inasmuch as it presents the misconception that there's "a"  block (singular) to be solved.

Without going into the math (but we could), there are numerous solutions that constitute a block; the hash computed simply needs to be less than a prescribed value based on the target and the difficultly.  Like everyone else, we're just working to find one that possesses a hash that meets the given criteria for the current round - and working to be the first pool that finds one with the current round's parameters.
member
Activity: 490
Merit: 16
1xA921 + 1xA741 + Backup-->1xA6 ;)
...clipped
In other words, we don't necessarily always work on the same block until it is solved(but we might solve it and get the coins), nor do we work on a "new" empty block until it is solved(side note:  I originally guessed this was what was happening  - we decrypted dummy data in the new block then we would be handed a "real" block to move into our new solved empty block, stripping out the loot in the process.

[edited to be more clear]

That is kind of what I thought was going on...and was wondering why we as a pool just didn't toss the block we were working on and picked up another one...

I'm pretty sure the pool switches to the new work as soon as a new block is found.  I don't think there is any "dummy data" work being done.

For starters, I thought we'd at least have to drop out the previously-unconfirmed transactions that we were trying to include in our new block candidate, which would kind of "reset" our progress since we'd then be working off a different batch of transactions.
legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1032
Carl, aka Sonny :)
...clipped
In other words, we don't necessarily always work on the same block until it is solved(but we might solve it and get the coins), nor do we work on a "new" empty block until it is solved(side note:  I originally guessed this was what was happening  - we decrypted dummy data in the new block then we would be handed a "real" block to move into our new solved empty block, stripping out the loot in the process.

[edited to be more clear]

That is kind of what I thought was going on...and was wondering why we as a pool just didn't toss the block we were working on and picked up another one...

I'm pretty sure the pool switches to the new work as soon as a new block is found.  I don't think there is any "dummy data" work being done.
member
Activity: 658
Merit: 21
4 s9's 2 821's

I could be completely wrong here, but my understanding is that each miner is given work to do and while that work is independent of everyone else's work, everyone is contributing to finding the  solution. That means, even a low hash rate worker has a chance of solving the block. I have always assumed that solving the block was a "brute force" method, so the pool just hands out work to everyone (Here, try this. Now, try this., etc.) The reason larger hash rate miners crack many (most?) of the the blocks is because they can try so many more attempts than a low hash rate miner. However, the attempts that a small miner makes (even if they fail) are still helping the pool because those are attempts that the other miners don't have to make because Everyone gets unique work.  Pretty sure Kano can explain this much more accurately.

Edit: To cut to the chase, assuming two pools are run exactly the same (e.g Kano S3 pool and Kano S9 pool) a 100PH pool made up of nothing but miners running S3 rigs, will be just as successful at cracking blocks as the 100PH pool made up of nothing but S9 rigs. (Not talking efficiency here, just block solving capability). Total pool hash rate is what counts, not how you got there.

Your understanding is correct. It is the total hash rate that matters, and workers are given their own space that will pretty much never overlap with the space of other miners.

We're all brute forcing a double SHA256 hash with slightly different parameters (nonce, time, extraNonce) and some of the same (merkle root, previous block, version) and each miner has effectively an infinite search space with those variables.  

The other thing to remember is that while people talk about "cracking this block" its actually been hundreds of blocks on the network, we just didn't brute force it before someone else on the network did.

But we're still on "this block", so in essence...yes we're still trying to "crack this block".  
Yes, this block for us, as in the next block the we finally solve,  but we've been working on lots of different network blocks since we cracked our last one. We'll all still use the "this block" expression though because it is convenient for our discussion purposes. That said........Let's crack this block!   Grin

Edit: And of course, at any point in time, the block we are trying to solve is "this block". It's just that "this block" is a group of different blocks since our last one. Ok, I think this horse is dead so I'll stop beating it.  Grin

Thanks for this great explanation, and it sort of confirms what I suspected was happening.   May I restate it and you folks make sure I understand it?

  • Kanopool grabs a block
  • We work on a whole bunch of math problems designed to help us find an encryption key that "unlocks" the block.  
  • More frequently however, some other pool/solo miner beats us to the solution.
  • So we grab another block and start again.
  • It is theoretically possible(though highly unlikely) that we might never find another block ever again - ie someone always beats us to the solution on every block we try, forever more.     Sorry - I shouldn't risk jinxing us (-:  )

In other words, we don't necessarily always work on the same block until it is solved(but we might solve it and get the coins), nor do we work on a "new" empty block until it is solved(side note:  I originally guessed this was what was happening  - we decrypted dummy data in the new block then we would be handed a "real" block to move into our new solved empty block, stripping out the loot in the process.


[edited to be more clear]



That is kind of what I thought was going on...and was wondering why we as a pool just didn't toss the block we were working on and picked up another one...
jr. member
Activity: 54
Merit: 3

I could be completely wrong here, but my understanding is that each miner is given work to do and while that work is independent of everyone else's work, everyone is contributing to finding the  solution. That means, even a low hash rate worker has a chance of solving the block. I have always assumed that solving the block was a "brute force" method, so the pool just hands out work to everyone (Here, try this. Now, try this., etc.) The reason larger hash rate miners crack many (most?) of the the blocks is because they can try so many more attempts than a low hash rate miner. However, the attempts that a small miner makes (even if they fail) are still helping the pool because those are attempts that the other miners don't have to make because Everyone gets unique work.  Pretty sure Kano can explain this much more accurately.

Edit: To cut to the chase, assuming two pools are run exactly the same (e.g Kano S3 pool and Kano S9 pool) a 100PH pool made up of nothing but miners running S3 rigs, will be just as successful at cracking blocks as the 100PH pool made up of nothing but S9 rigs. (Not talking efficiency here, just block solving capability). Total pool hash rate is what counts, not how you got there.

Your understanding is correct. It is the total hash rate that matters, and workers are given their own space that will pretty much never overlap with the space of other miners.

We're all brute forcing a double SHA256 hash with slightly different parameters (nonce, time, extraNonce) and some of the same (merkle root, previous block, version) and each miner has effectively an infinite search space with those variables.  

The other thing to remember is that while people talk about "cracking this block" its actually been hundreds of blocks on the network, we just didn't brute force it before someone else on the network did.

But we're still on "this block", so in essence...yes we're still trying to "crack this block".  
Yes, this block for us, as in the next block the we finally solve,  but we've been working on lots of different network blocks since we cracked our last one. We'll all still use the "this block" expression though because it is convenient for our discussion purposes. That said........Let's crack this block!   Grin

Edit: And of course, at any point in time, the block we are trying to solve is "this block". It's just that "this block" is a group of different blocks since our last one. Ok, I think this horse is dead so I'll stop beating it.  Grin

Thanks for this great explanation, and it sort of confirms what I suspected was happening.   May I restate it and you folks make sure I understand it?

  • Kanopool grabs a block
  • We work on a whole bunch of math problems designed to help us find an encryption key that "unlocks" the block.  
  • More frequently however, some other pool/solo miner beats us to the solution.
  • So we grab another block and start again.
  • It is theoretically possible(though highly unlikely) that we might never find another block ever again - ie someone always beats us to the solution on every block we try, forever more.     Sorry - I shouldn't risk jinxing us (-:  )

In other words, we don't necessarily always work on the same block until it is solved(but we might solve it and get the coins), nor do we work on a "new" empty block until it is solved(side note:  I originally guessed this was what was happening  - we decrypted dummy data in the new block then we would be handed a "real" block to move into our new solved empty block, stripping out the loot in the process.


[edited to be more clear]

jr. member
Activity: 55
Merit: 1
^^^unrelated
This is a topic for "Mining speculation".

Removed. Apologies.

Edit: Mine ON!
member
Activity: 490
Merit: 16
1xA921 + 1xA741 + Backup-->1xA6 ;)
Lunchtime musings...

What are the numbers on the website that have /s between them (e.g. Hash Rate & Invalid Details)?

Examples:
  • Hash Rate:3.78/3.69THs
  • Stale:2,937,116/770
  • Dup:0/0
  • Hi:323,697/79
  • Rej:0/0

Thanks in advance!

P.S. - Almost 500%--I'm definitely ramped up at this point. Now, to just find a block.
hero member
Activity: 1610
Merit: 538
I'm in BTC XTC
From kano.is>help>payouts:
The N value the pool uses is 5 times the network difficulty when the block is found - '5Nd' (emphasis added)
Mine On!  Cool
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
When we eventually find a block, is the 5nd difficulty used the difficulty when we find the block, or the difficulty when we found the prior block, or something else?

For example, difficulty was 2.2T when we found the last block, and it is currently 2.6T, and probably rising to 2.8T soon.

There is a difficulty change coming up in about 34 hours.   https://diff.cryptothis.com/.








member
Activity: 490
Merit: 16
1xA921 + 1xA741 + Backup-->1xA6 ;)
This pool seems to be ONLY for the people who spent megabucks on mining equipment.

Their web page should have a warning that you can mine for MONTHS and never see a penny.

Except that would be false unless you ignored the bold red warning on the front web page ...

Subtle, very subtle... I had to go remind myself what Kano was referring to.

Quote from: kano.is
Don't point CPU or GPU miners at the pool.

Grin
member
Activity: 210
Merit: 15
The Fundamentals, they haven't changed. There will only ever be 21 million bitcoin ever created. ~4 million have been lost forever. If people think Bitcoin is dead, they are fools. Bitcoin is THE coin to which all others are priced against. Don't worry about price, Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt is what makes long term miners and HODL's wealthy. Stay the course and MINE ON WITH KANO-SAN, the best Bitcoin Mining Pool on Earth!! Come on Block!!BTCBTC
member
Activity: 658
Merit: 21
4 s9's 2 821's
Fire sale again boys! Get 'em while they're hot!

buy low and HODL!

Get your miners, get your miners!
jr. member
Activity: 136
Merit: 2
Fire sale again boys! Get 'em while they're hot!

buy low and HODL!
full member
Activity: 658
Merit: 118
And of course, mine on!
sr. member
Activity: 276
Merit: 250
But we're still on "this block", so in essence...yes we're still trying to "crack this block".  

echo $_ | sed "s/this block/our next block/g"

But we're still on "our next block", so in essence...yes we're still trying to "crack our next block".  

Yep.  That's better.
+1  Smiley
jr. member
Activity: 104
Merit: 5
But we're still on "this block", so in essence...yes we're still trying to "crack this block". 

echo $_ | sed "s/this block/our next block/g"

But we're still on "our next block", so in essence...yes we're still trying to "crack our next block". 

Yep.  That's better.
sr. member
Activity: 276
Merit: 250

I could be completely wrong here, but my understanding is that each miner is given work to do and while that work is independent of everyone else's work, everyone is contributing to finding the  solution. That means, even a low hash rate worker has a chance of solving the block. I have always assumed that solving the block was a "brute force" method, so the pool just hands out work to everyone (Here, try this. Now, try this., etc.) The reason larger hash rate miners crack many (most?) of the the blocks is because they can try so many more attempts than a low hash rate miner. However, the attempts that a small miner makes (even if they fail) are still helping the pool because those are attempts that the other miners don't have to make because Everyone gets unique work.  Pretty sure Kano can explain this much more accurately.

Edit: To cut to the chase, assuming two pools are run exactly the same (e.g Kano S3 pool and Kano S9 pool) a 100PH pool made up of nothing but miners running S3 rigs, will be just as successful at cracking blocks as the 100PH pool made up of nothing but S9 rigs. (Not talking efficiency here, just block solving capability). Total pool hash rate is what counts, not how you got there.

Your understanding is correct. It is the total hash rate that matters, and workers are given their own space that will pretty much never overlap with the space of other miners.

We're all brute forcing a double SHA256 hash with slightly different parameters (nonce, time, extraNonce) and some of the same (merkle root, previous block, version) and each miner has effectively an infinite search space with those variables.  

The other thing to remember is that while people talk about "cracking this block" its actually been hundreds of blocks on the network, we just didn't brute force it before someone else on the network did.

But we're still on "this block", so in essence...yes we're still trying to "crack this block".  
Yes, this block for us, as in the next block the we finally solve,  but we've been working on lots of different network blocks since we cracked our last one. We'll all still use the "this block" expression though because it is convenient for our discussion purposes. That said........Let's crack this block!   Grin

Edit: And of course, at any point in time, the block we are trying to solve is "this block". It's just that "this block" is a group of different blocks since our last one. Ok, I think this horse is dead so I'll stop beating it.  Grin
sr. member
Activity: 276
Merit: 250

I could be completely wrong here, but my understanding is that each miner is given work to do and while that work is independent of everyone else's work, everyone is contributing to finding the  solution. That means, even a low hash rate worker has a chance of solving the block. I have always assumed that solving the block was a "brute force" method, so the pool just hands out work to everyone (Here, try this. Now, try this., etc.) The reason larger hash rate miners crack many (most?) of the the blocks is because they can try so many more attempts than a low hash rate miner. However, the attempts that a small miner makes (even if they fail) are still helping the pool because those are attempts that the other miners don't have to make because Everyone gets unique work.  Pretty sure Kano can explain this much more accurately.

Edit: To cut to the chase, assuming two pools are run exactly the same (e.g Kano S3 pool and Kano S9 pool) a 100PH pool made up of nothing but miners running S3 rigs, will be just as successful at cracking blocks as the 100PH pool made up of nothing but S9 rigs. (Not talking efficiency here, just block solving capability). Total pool hash rate is what counts, not how you got there.

Your understanding is correct. It is the total hash rate that matters, and workers are given their own space that will pretty much never overlap with the space of other miners.

We're all brute forcing a double SHA256 hash with slightly different parameters (nonce, time, extraNonce) and some of the same (merkle root, previous block, version) and each miner has effectively an infinite search space with those variables.  

The other thing to remember is that while people talk about "cracking this block" its actually been hundreds of blocks on the network, we just didn't brute force it before someone else on the network did.
Thanks for the extra details Smiley
While I couldn't recognize a Merke root from a ginger root or a nonce from a sconce, it's nice to know I at least had the general concept down. I also knew that once the network finds a block we've moved on to trying to solve the next, so yeah, "cracking this block" is just a convenient, albeit innacurate expression.
Gonna do more reading to see if I can ever really understand this at a deep level.
Thanks again Smiley  Mine on!
member
Activity: 658
Merit: 21
4 s9's 2 821's

I could be completely wrong here, but my understanding is that each miner is given work to do and while that work is independent of everyone else's work, everyone is contributing to finding the  solution. That means, even a low hash rate worker has a chance of solving the block. I have always assumed that solving the block was a "brute force" method, so the pool just hands out work to everyone (Here, try this. Now, try this., etc.) The reason larger hash rate miners crack many (most?) of the the blocks is because they can try so many more attempts than a low hash rate miner. However, the attempts that a small miner makes (even if they fail) are still helping the pool because those are attempts that the other miners don't have to make because Everyone gets unique work.  Pretty sure Kano can explain this much more accurately.

Edit: To cut to the chase, assuming two pools are run exactly the same (e.g Kano S3 pool and Kano S9 pool) a 100PH pool made up of nothing but miners running S3 rigs, will be just as successful at cracking blocks as the 100PH pool made up of nothing but S9 rigs. (Not talking efficiency here, just block solving capability). Total pool hash rate is what counts, not how you got there.

Your understanding is correct. It is the total hash rate that matters, and workers are given their own space that will pretty much never overlap with the space of other miners.

We're all brute forcing a double SHA256 hash with slightly different parameters (nonce, time, extraNonce) and some of the same (merkle root, previous block, version) and each miner has effectively an infinite search space with those variables.  

The other thing to remember is that while people talk about "cracking this block" its actually been hundreds of blocks on the network, we just didn't brute force it before someone else on the network did.

But we're still on "this block", so in essence...yes we're still trying to "crack this block". 
full member
Activity: 658
Merit: 118

I could be completely wrong here, but my understanding is that each miner is given work to do and while that work is independent of everyone else's work, everyone is contributing to finding the  solution. That means, even a low hash rate worker has a chance of solving the block. I have always assumed that solving the block was a "brute force" method, so the pool just hands out work to everyone (Here, try this. Now, try this., etc.) The reason larger hash rate miners crack many (most?) of the the blocks is because they can try so many more attempts than a low hash rate miner. However, the attempts that a small miner makes (even if they fail) are still helping the pool because those are attempts that the other miners don't have to make because Everyone gets unique work.  Pretty sure Kano can explain this much more accurately.

Edit: To cut to the chase, assuming two pools are run exactly the same (e.g Kano S3 pool and Kano S9 pool) a 100PH pool made up of nothing but miners running S3 rigs, will be just as successful at cracking blocks as the 100PH pool made up of nothing but S9 rigs. (Not talking efficiency here, just block solving capability). Total pool hash rate is what counts, not how you got there.

Your understanding is correct. It is the total hash rate that matters, and workers are given their own space that will pretty much never overlap with the space of other miners.

We're all brute forcing a double SHA256 hash with slightly different parameters (nonce, time, extraNonce) and some of the same (merkle root, previous block, version) and each miner has effectively an infinite search space with those variables.  

The other thing to remember is that while people talk about "cracking this block" its actually been hundreds of blocks on the network, we just didn't brute force it before someone else on the network did.
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