La Liga (Spanish League) Prediction Thread 2020/21 - page 4460.

Darkoth89

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Quote from: Daniel91 on August 22, 2020, 06:54:54 AM

Messi seems to have become even more furious and angry at Barcelona.
All the details of his meeting with new Barcelona coach Koeman have been revealed by RAC1, and they are close to the current president of Barcelona and the board.
Messi seems to believe that this is a deliberate diversion of the Barcelona management to portray him as a bad boy and force him to leave the club.
What do you think?

Source: https://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2020/08/21/5f401377e2704ec1058b459d.html

So it's Barcagate 2.0? I seriously don't undertstand why Bartomeu is still president. He should have been kicked out long time ago, right after his initial smear campaign against his current and former players and coaches was uncovered. And now when Barca wants to make a fresh start it would've been another possibility to get rid of him finally.

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Messi seems to have become even more furious and angry at Barcelona.
All the details of his meeting with new Barcelona coach Koeman have been revealed by RAC1, and they are close to the current president of Barcelona and the board.
Messi seems to believe that this is a deliberate diversion of the Barcelona management to portray him as a bad boy and force him to leave the club.
What do you think?

Source: https://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2020/08/21/5f401377e2704ec1058b459d.html

BitSat19

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Quote from: Darkoth89 on August 20, 2020, 12:36:30 PM

Quote from: kassex on August 20, 2020, 08:36:50 AM

But this is unlikely to change anything for those who must leave. At least 5 people from the starting lineup must leave. Whether Barcelona can buy an adequate replacement and whether they can fit into Barcelona's game quickly enough is a big question.

Depends on how you define 'quickly'. The upheaval now at Barca will take time. For me they aren't favourites for next years title at the moment. When Ronaldo left Real they also needed a season to adjust and replace him as a team. And in Barceloa we might see even more important changes in the team. Even before their humilating defeat in the UCL and a season without any title, Barca had plans to get rid of a lot of their player. Now Pique, Suarez ... heck, even Messi might leave them. I am curious how the starting line-up will look next season. The new coach however could be a chance to integrate Coutinho, Dembele or Griezmann into the team again. As I said, challenging but interesting times ahead for Barca.

We have some serious problems around Barcelona after one big and very scary defeat from hands of Bayern now many players want to leave even some serious talks about Messi even new head coach is already announces Messi is key man for his future team so lets see what happen now he announces his first target for this season and its Wijnaldum from Liverpool so this is going to be very interesting in next few days.

Darkoth89

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Quote from: kassex on August 20, 2020, 08:36:50 AM

But this is unlikely to change anything for those who must leave. At least 5 people from the starting lineup must leave. Whether Barcelona can buy an adequate replacement and whether they can fit into Barcelona's game quickly enough is a big question.

Depends on how you define 'quickly'. The upheaval now at Barca will take time. For me they aren't favourites for next years title at the moment. When Ronaldo left Real they also needed a season to adjust and replace him as a team. And in Barceloa we might see even more important changes in the team. Even before their humilating defeat in the UCL and a season without any title, Barca had plans to get rid of a lot of their player. Now Pique, Suarez ... heck, even Messi might leave them. I am curious how the starting line-up will look next season. The new coach however could be a chance to integrate Coutinho, Dembele or Griezmann into the team again. As I said, challenging but interesting times ahead for Barca.

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Quote from: hd49728 on August 20, 2020, 05:01:22 AM

Quote from: cryptofrka on August 17, 2020, 08:59:07 AM

Apparently, Ronald Koeman has been chosen as a new Barcelona manager

I like Koeman from what he told in the press conference. He is different (or probably he has not had a clear idea) than Pep. In the press conference after his appointment as a manager of Barca, Pep said straightly and publicly that he did not want to see Ronaldinho, Deco and Eto'o in Barca squad. The rest is a history of Barca.

Koeman shown his respect to all players that he respected them so he'd not want to say who will stay and who will leave in the press conference. Love him.

But this is unlikely to change anything for those who must leave. At least 5 people from the starting lineup must leave. Whether Barcelona can buy an adequate replacement and whether they can fit into Barcelona's game quickly enough is a big question.

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Quote from: cryptofrka on August 17, 2020, 08:59:07 AM

Apparently, Ronald Koeman has been chosen as a new Barcelona manager

I like Koeman from what he told in the press conference. He is different (or probably he has not had a clear idea) than Pep. In the press conference after his appointment as a manager of Barca, Pep said straightly and publicly that he did not want to see Ronaldinho, Deco and Eto'o in Barca squad. The rest is a history of Barca.

Koeman shown his respect to all players that he respected them so he'd not want to say who will stay and who will leave in the press conference. Love him.

Naida_BR

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Quote from: AakZaki on August 19, 2020, 11:51:39 AM

Quote from: masulum on August 17, 2020, 10:53:02 PM

~snip~
Do you think the failure of Barcelona last season is because of Abidal and President or just because their coach?

See the history of barcelona from the start of the season until now.
1. Ernesto Valverde was sacked midway through the season even though Barcelona are top of the table.
2. The board of directors and the players are incompatible.
3. This is because Eric Abidal is talking about Ernesto Valverde being sacked for not getting along with the players when he really didn't.
4. The transfers made by Barcelona didn't make the team any better, but I think it's a waste of money.
5. Many Barcelona players are old.
I think those are some of the issues Barca need to tackle for next season.

Everything went bad from the start of the season for Barcelona.
It wasn't very visible because they were at the top of La Liga for a lot of period and everything seemed that it would be a successful season for them. After all, if they were the Spanish Champions, we wouldn't discuss all those issues.

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Quote from: Naida_BR on August 19, 2020, 03:02:51 AM

I cannot understand why they made this choice... To my eyes, is not the right one.

Don't blame them just because you don't have the same point of view. Also, we cannot state whether it is true or wrong since Koeman even didn't start to manage the Barca players yet. Why don't give him a chance? We probably judge choosing Koeman as a coach "true or wrong" at least after he manages the players on some matches and sees the results.

Quote from: Naida_BR on August 19, 2020, 03:02:51 AM

How could they know that Koeman's playstyle fits Barcas? He was a manager in a club in another league when there the football that is played is totally different to the La Liga...

Don't you know he was ever be an Assistant Manager in Barcelona (Jul 1, 1998 - Dec 31, 1999) and he was also a Valencia manager (Nov 5, 2007 - Apr 21, 2008). Moreover, Koeman was a Barcelona player (in 1989 - 1995). Don't view him only as a manager of a club on another league. He knows Barcelona and La liga as he isn't a new one there.

Read: https://www.transfermarkt.com/ronald-koeman/stationen/trainer/439/plus/1

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Quote from: masulum on August 17, 2020, 10:53:02 PM

~snip~
Do you think the failure of Barcelona last season is because of Abidal and President or just because their coach?

See the history of barcelona from the start of the season until now.
1. Ernesto Valverde was sacked midway through the season even though Barcelona are top of the table.
2. The board of directors and the players are incompatible.
3. This is because Eric Abidal is talking about Ernesto Valverde being sacked for not getting along with the players when he really didn't.
4. The transfers made by Barcelona didn't make the team any better, but I think it's a waste of money.
5. Many Barcelona players are old.
I think those are some of the issues Barca need to tackle for next season.

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Quote from: cryptofrka on August 18, 2020, 07:02:06 AM

Quote from: -CryptoViking- on August 17, 2020, 07:19:35 PM

Koeman was an important player for Barcelona and a lot of people know him, he will be well received and accepted,which is a very important factor. This fact will surely buy him time and good grace to have space to work with the team and build new foundations.

He did good job so far in his coaching career and I think he is a natural and good choice for Barca.

Koeman played for Barcelona 30 years ago.
I definitely disagree about his coaching career success. He was good at Southampton but then did a really bad job at Everton and he got sacked after dragging them into the relegation zone after spending more than 100 million ounds on new players.

He's definitely unproven and has not managed at a club level since 2017, national team is a different environment. He will not be given time, he will be put under instant pressure because they will demand results immediately. That's the way it works at Barca and I really do feel that Koeman is another mistake.

I think Koeman is a good fit for Barcelona. He may be still unproven as coach, but did a great job for the national team. It is thanks to Koeman that they could qualify for EURO 2020.
But as you mention, he will need to come quickly with results, otherwise it is game over for him also.

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Quote from: Trofo on August 19, 2020, 04:15:51 AM

But you can't put a guy with absolutely no experience as sports director on that position in the club as big as Barca. Usual way is to find some position in youth teams and then judge if that person has the potential to develop into something that first team could use. Or maybe give him a scout position on some market. Definitely don't give him a power to play with hundreds of millions and basically steer the direction of the whole club.

Exactly! Being a great player, a legend of a club does not mean will be a great coach or sport director. Very few cases can have double successes like that, I can list a few: J. Cruyff, F. Beckenbauer, Zagallo (Brazil), D. Zoff (Italy), Guardiola (Spain) and a few others. Mostly average or below average players become great coaches, managers like Mourinho, Wenger, Ferguson, etc.

Barca made many mistakes from transfer to their club management (like appointment for E. Abidal as a sport director) and this season all of those bad mistakes were reflected and uncovered by Bayern.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on August 18, 2020, 03:38:22 PM

BTW, Barca officially sacked Eric Abidal. I loved him as a player, that moment when he lifted Champions league trophy together with Puyol will be in my memory forever. But as sports director he was terrible...

Couldn't agree more. he was a great player and after that personal health tragedy it was very nice touch from Barca to involve him again.

But you can't put a guy with absolutely no experience as sports director on that position in the club as big as Barca. Usual way is to find some position in youth teams and then judge if that person has the potential to develop into something that first team could use. Or maybe give him a scout position on some market. Definitely don't give him a power to play with hundreds of millions and basically steer the direction of the whole club.

I am not that well informed about political currents behind the curtains in Barca, but I feel that position was awarded on that basis and not on the "best person for the job".

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Quote from: kawetsriyanto on August 17, 2020, 06:23:50 PM

Quote from: Naida_BR on August 17, 2020, 09:41:26 AM

It is like Barcelona do not have or do not want to spend money in the coach position.

I don't think it is the reason. How can a big club like Barcelona don't want to spend money on a coach? Coach has a big role and also the key for Barcelona FC to be successful or not in the next season. So, the reason should be another thing. I suspect Barcelona management may think Koeman is a typical coach who fits with Barcelona football style. Barcelona also probably has a good relationship with Koeman. However, whatever the reason, we should let Koeman show us what he can do. Don't be so pessimistic, mate!!

Well, I am kind of pessimistic...
I cannot understand why they made this choice... To my eyes, is not the right one.
How could they know that Koeman's playstyle fits Barcas? He was a manager in a club in another league when there the football that is played is totally different to the La Liga...

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Quote from: LTU_btc on August 18, 2020, 03:38:22 PM

...
BTW, Barca officially sacked Eric Abidal. I loved him as a player, that moment when he lifted Champions league trophy together with Puyol will be in my memory forever. But as sports director he was terrible...

yeah, thats true - allegedly the ex. coach of tsg hoffenheim Alfred Schreuder will follow as new assistant coach

Quote

Barça fire director Abidal - "If everything goes as expected Koeman will sign"

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/barca-fire-director-abidal-quot-if-everything-goes-as-expected-koeman-will-sign-quot-/view/news/368467

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Quote from: Trofo on August 18, 2020, 04:50:19 AM

Arthur for Pjanic was done to balance the books and avoid sanctions from Financial Fair play. They didn't exchange the players. They actually bought each others players and gave them long contracts. The rule is when you buy player his worth is amortized trough all years of contract. So If they bought player for 80M on 4 year contract that is written as 20M per year. When you sell a player, whole amount goes in that year. So they basically earned 60M or whatever for that transfer. I wrote about that with exact numbers when it happened. had to research it in detail since decision looked like total crap when I read about it first.

All your other points however stand, and their transfer politics has really been bad in the lately.

Yeah, I understand why it was and in general, Barca have some financial problems. But still, I hate fact that they gave relatively young player, who can become to one of key players for Barca in future, by 30 year old player who probably already passed his prime. If I'm not mistaken, against Bayern our squad average age was almost 30 years - we need some young blood.
BTW, Barca officially sacked Eric Abidal. I loved him as a player, that moment when he lifted Champions league trophy together with Puyol will be in my memory forever. But as sports director he was terrible...

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Quote from: cryptofrka on August 17, 2020, 08:59:07 AM

Apparently, Ronald Koeman has been chosen as a new Barcelona manager.

https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/ronald-koeman-barcelona-246943-246943
https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1295342486861250560

Another gamble from Barcelona, his 2 previous jobs were Southampton and Everton and he was never in charge of a top team before.

He did really well in Euro qualifiers with Netherlands but it was in a really weak group. He did beat Germany though.

If this is indeed interesting, the experienced coach has won the Champions League, European League, Spanish League, etc. However, it seems there has been no official statement from Barcelona yet. What I know is that he is still under contract with the Netherlands until 2022. If it's official I'm interested in what he will do with the team, especially the team's crisis of confidence in the coach.

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Quote from: cryptofrka on August 18, 2020, 07:02:06 AM

Quote from: -CryptoViking- on August 17, 2020, 07:19:35 PM

Koeman was an important player for Barcelona and a lot of people know him, he will be well received and accepted,which is a very important factor. This fact will surely buy him time and good grace to have space to work with the team and build new foundations.

He did good job so far in his coaching career and I think he is a natural and good choice for Barca.

Koeman played for Barcelona 30 years ago.
I definitely disagree about his coaching career success. He was good at Southampton but then did a really bad job at Everton and he got sacked after dragging them into the relegation zone after spending more than 100 million ounds on new players.

He's definitely unproven and has not managed at a club level since 2017, national team is a different environment. He will not be given time, he will be put under instant pressure because they will demand results immediately. That's the way it works at Barca and I really do feel that Koeman is another mistake.

It seems that lately everyone wants to copy the example of Real and their coach Zidane.
Just look at the examples of Manchester United, Milan and many other clubs.
Club owners mistakenly think they just need to find some former football star for a coach and instant success will come.
However, the case of Zidane is a big exception and not the rule.
In most cases, such experiments fail and are a reflection of the despair of clubs that don't have time to wait for results, don't have a strategy and long-term goals and wants only instant results regardless of the consequences.
I have a feeling that even this experiment in Barcelona will not end well.

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Quote from: -CryptoViking- on August 17, 2020, 07:19:35 PM

Koeman was an important player for Barcelona and a lot of people know him, he will be well received and accepted,which is a very important factor. This fact will surely buy him time and good grace to have space to work with the team and build new foundations.

He did good job so far in his coaching career and I think he is a natural and good choice for Barca.

Koeman played for Barcelona 30 years ago.
I definitely disagree about his coaching career success. He was good at Southampton but then did a really bad job at Everton and he got sacked after dragging them into the relegation zone after spending more than 100 million ounds on new players.

He's definitely unproven and has not managed at a club level since 2017, national team is a different environment. He will not be given time, he will be put under instant pressure because they will demand results immediately. That's the way it works at Barca and I really do feel that Koeman is another mistake.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on August 18, 2020, 04:28:03 AM

Damn, what a interesting transfer. David Silva from Man City moved to Real Sociedad, despite that he was linked with Lazio. Very solid signing for Sociedad, it will be interesting to see him in La Liga. Even at such age, he is still great player.
...

i just wanted to report the successful transfer of David Silva in the Football Transfers Speculation, Odds and Predictions thread.
in fact this is a very interesting deal that will definitely make real sociedad stronger

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/david-silva-joins-real-sociedad-spaniard-signs-until-2022/view/news/368370

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Quote from: LTU_btc on August 18, 2020, 04:28:03 AM

I don't think Valverde or Setien were main problem. With current board they may continue changing managers, but it won't help. Now Barca squad need serious rebuild. They paid over 300 millions for Dembele, Griezmann and Coutinho, what we have now? One is always injured, another is on bench and third is scoring goals against Barca. And changing Arthur to get Pjanic is something ridiculous...

Arthur for Pjanic was done to balance the books and avoid sanctions from Financial Fair play. They didn't exchange the players. They actually bought each others players and gave them long contracts. The rule is when you buy player his worth is amortized trough all years of contract. So If they bought player for 80M on 4 year contract that is written as 20M per year. When you sell a player, whole amount goes in that year. So they basically earned 60M or whatever for that transfer. I wrote about that with exact numbers when it happened. had to research it in detail since decision looked like total crap when I read about it first.

All your other points however stand, and their transfer politics has really been bad in the lately.

Topic: La Liga (Spanish League) Prediction Thread 2020/21 - page 4460. (Read 539510 times)