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Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 133. (Read 452224 times)

hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Out of curiosity, who designed your PCB? I've never seen an aluminum core used for an edge connector like that without a backside and having gold fingers. I'd like to ask if they used any kind of surface treatment on it to prevent oxidization on the aluminum.

Great news for everyone invested here. I'm generally down on mining bonds and mining companies in general, but L_R has done a great job at maintaining the value in the company.

The aluminum is undoubtedly a ground, so now you have an aluminum to copper connection, which is guaranteed to oxidize. Like the original H-boards they cheaped out on the fingers, didn't bother with gold; the connections aren't exactly stable.  I know they aren't really meant to be inserted/removed, so gold isn't absolutely required, but it would have eliminated a bunch of issues.  It's a shit ton of work deploying a large mining farm; if plagued with reliability issues it can be a real nightmare.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 506
The more hashrate that Labrat brings online for Coinseed, the more our earnings will be diluted.  Sounds great to me. /s

I doubt the news is so shallow that it means he will be working for CoinSeed as a side job. If LR helps CoinSeed bring on hardware, I suspect he will be doing so for LRM's benefit - quid pro quo.
Besides, it's possible that CoinSeed's CEO has a vested interest in LRM. Ifso, maybe LR will ask Kauffman if he (or CoinSeed as a company) would disclose any significant interest or not in LRM's success.

I believe LR is smart and clearly enough desires LRM to succeed. So, I suspect he has a reasonable agreement worked out. Again, it's nice news... but still the only question I think is of importance is to what extent it will actually benefit LRM. So far, that seems a bit uncertain - still waiting for any more details from LR. It's not just the cheap electricity, because that electricity rate can be - if I'm not mistaken - attained independent of CoinSeed.
hero member
Activity: 509
Merit: 500
Official LRM shill
The more hashrate that Labrat brings online for Coinseed, the more our earnings will be diluted.  Sounds great to me. /s
The Coinseed hashrate will happen regardless of Lab_Rat or LRM's involvement.  Working with them reduces our costs.


grnbrg.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 506
So, as you can see, this is simple math, but it speaks volumes.
I trust you have run the numbers for other mining outfits - I'm wondering if any mining op could really have been expected to maintain its network hash rate or otherwise keep up with the exponential increase in difficulty over the last year. How have others done?

That and although everyone hates it, USD to BTC rate does play a large role. The higher the USD to BTC price, that longer old tech can run at a profit and it also brings in bigger players that might create chips or buy up hashrate themselves.

Staying relevant in this industry is not only about the money you have but about the connections as well and Lab Rat is indeed making those connections while growing his farm into one of the largest out there.

While this large leap will help bring additional dividends to shareholders it is exciting to know that this seems to only be the beginning and that with these connections and cheap hosting each future deal will only be that much better.

I agree that the new network LR has developed with Kauffman seems promising, but understanding the actual extent of any benefit needs amplification. LR apparently has more to put out regarding some concerns on the board. Until then, I'd rather wait & see before making any other assessments.

The best thing about this is that it tells me, when making the assumptions (1) this hardware is as great as described in comparison to any other hardware, and (2) that LR can get it at very cheap prices with fast turn around, that things can only improve. But let's see what the finer details are before we run with those assumptions. Because neither of these assumptions have been verified. For example, is this hardware better than KNC's 28nm hardware which has apparently shipped? Will LR be able to purchase at or near cost?

Though, I suspect there is a good chance that that possible in price to performance. Even if the hardware is marginally inferior to KNC.... If LR can get hardware at cost, then LR can file for rock star status, imo.  Cool

donator
Activity: 1057
Merit: 1021
The more hashrate that Labrat brings online for Coinseed, the more our earnings will be diluted.  Sounds great to me. /s
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 506
So, as you can see, this is simple math, but it speaks volumes.
I trust you have run the numbers for other mining outfits - I'm wondering if any mining op could really have been expected to maintain its network hash rate or otherwise keep up with the exponential increase in difficulty over the last year. How have others done?

I haven't done so. But I doubt any have done better than LRM. Better or worse, it wouldn't matter as an investment. All one can do it seems is hope difficulty slows down dramatically, and/or that LR can get a lot more hardware really really cheap. And I suspect that there is a fair chance that LR will have access to near cost hardware or at least very reduced prices. Otherwise, what's the point for the news.
full member
Activity: 206
Merit: 100
Mostly Harmless...
So, as you can see, this is simple math, but it speaks volumes.
I trust you have run the numbers for other mining outfits - I'm wondering if any mining op could really have been expected to maintain its network hash rate or otherwise keep up with the exponential increase in difficulty over the last year. How have others done?

I'd be interested in hearing these numbers as well.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do.
So, as you can see, this is simple math, but it speaks volumes.
I trust you have run the numbers for other mining outfits - I'm wondering if any mining op could really have been expected to maintain its network hash rate or otherwise keep up with the exponential increase in difficulty over the last year. How have others done?

That and although everyone hates it, USD to BTC rate does play a large role. The higher the USD to BTC price, that longer old tech can run at a profit and it also brings in bigger players that might create chips or buy up hashrate themselves.

Staying relevant in this industry is not only about the money you have but about the connections as well and Lab Rat is indeed making those connections while growing his farm into one of the largest out there.

While this large leap will help bring additional dividends to shareholders it is exciting to know that this seems to only be the beginning and that with these connections and cheap hosting each future deal will only be that much better.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
Touchdown
So, as you can see, this is simple math, but it speaks volumes.
I trust you have run the numbers for other mining outfits - I'm wondering if any mining op could really have been expected to maintain its network hash rate or otherwise keep up with the exponential increase in difficulty over the last year. How have others done?
hero member
Activity: 509
Merit: 500
Official LRM shill
Unfortunately until we get any more details it looks a lot like this is a great deal for zach and an ok deal for shareholders. At the moment all we know for sure is our CEO just got a job at a new company.

Please fill in the blanks lab-rat
I just received an email from LR's iPhone...  He's been following the responses since last night's announcement, and will address the questions and make some clarifications when he gets to a real keyboard, and has some time to compose them.


grnbrg.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 506
I'd like to propose using a term to specifically identify & communicate how well LRM is performing: "PAR HASHRATE"
Simply put, it's the initial guaranteed hashrate times the difficulty change (as a multiple) since initial bond issuance. This can be done per bond, or for LRM as a whole.

Example using current figures:

Initial [expected] hashrate: 100MH per bond
Initial difficulty: 31,256,961
Current Difficulty: 2,193,847,870
Difficulty Change Mutiple: x 70.187

From this we calculate that the current par bond hashrate is: 100MH/bond x 70.187 = 7018.7 MH/bond  (or ~7GH/bond).

How does this compare to current actual performance?
Current actual hashrate: ~(25,000GH x 0.75)/60,000bonds; or about 312.5 MH per bond
That means LRM is operating at (312.5/7018.7) x 100% = 4.4% of par!

With approximately ~60,000 bonds, LRM's total hashrate should be approximately (60,000 bonds * 7GH/bond)/0.75 = 560 TH

So, as you can see, this is simple math, but it speaks volumes. The network has been absolutely crushing bond holders, and LRM as a whole. And it explains why bond price is not recovering. I'd like to see some commensurate numbers in the other direction. 156TH soon would be a nice start to a recovery.

NOTE: One caveat to keep in mind is that the par value would lag a bit due to lag in new hardware development & shipping delays. For example, it took two months to come to 100MH/bond from initial bond issue. And some initial hardware purchases are still not received (e.g. the BFL Monarchs). Among maybe a few bugs or so that have hopefully been ironed out. That said, 95.6% below par still seems pretty concerning.

sr. member
Activity: 473
Merit: 250
Unfortunately until we get any more details it looks a lot like this is a great deal for zach and an ok deal for shareholders. At the moment all we know for sure is our CEO just got a job at a new company.

Please fill in the blanks lab-rat
member
Activity: 83
Merit: 10
I will be the first to admit that I'm one of the Debbie Downers. CoinTerra is days away from shipping 2TH boxes and I'm supposed to be excited about a delivery of 1.5TH rigs with no date attached?

And until LR makes it clear what stake LRM bondholders have in the CoinSeed deal, I'm not going to pat him on the back for that either. Just because I can personally imagine a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow doesn't make it real.

I'd more than happy to jump up and down and shout hooray when the situation warrants it, but not before then.

And none of this should be taken as a personal knock against Zach. He's obviously been working hard for LRM non-stop for months now. And I appreciate that a great deal.

Its just this matter of the remaining 87% of my investment which I am hoping to see again someday...
member
Activity: 116
Merit: 10
Quote
JAN/FEB (50+TH estimated): The Monarchs should be coming in sometime in January or February in the range of 25TH which will double LRMs hashrate!!!

FEB/MAR (150-250TH estimated): Bitfury equipment should start shipping out by the end of February which will be a minimum of 100TH, but with the sale of more bonds it could very easily push past 200TH in addition to the 50TH in hand already. There are some coins laying around that I'm looking to put into this deal, so the bitcoin price rising would help us out a little bit as well.

Isnt this also under the "2 week" premise now? (I hear march bandied about a bit for the shipping schedule)

As for the negative nancy/doubting debbie stuff I wasn't intending on being one of them either but agree with ||bit's queries. There's still some clarity/definition missing on certain points which it seems a few of us would like cleared up.

That said it's obvious we all applaud Zach's efforts, or else we would have sold out long ago.

- DiggeR
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Quote
JAN/FEB (50+TH estimated): The Monarchs should be coming in sometime in January or February in the range of 25TH which will double LRMs hashrate!!!

FEB/MAR (150-250TH estimated): Bitfury equipment should start shipping out by the end of February which will be a minimum of 100TH, but with the sale of more bonds it could very easily push past 200TH in addition to the 50TH in hand already. There are some coins laying around that I'm looking to put into this deal, so the bitcoin price rising would help us out a little bit as well.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 506
What a bunch of Debbie Downers!

Nice news Lab Rat and great wins for your peeps.

There are plenty of unanswered questions and concerns but this is the kind of announcement that indicates the continuing growth of LRM and the huge effort you've put into this project.

I for one am happy to wait and see how things play out.
If you can throw us a bone here and there that's bonus.

Many Wow.

I think you might have considered me as one of the Debbie Downers. Being notably negative is not my intention, but to ask serious questions as an interested party (in this case already w/ built-up expectations). But if I was or even seemed unappreciative, I apologize and was wrong. So, I deleted the post that might have come off that way. And to be clear on a related note, I appreciate all the hard work Zach (LabRat) does for LRM. And even if LRM were to ultimately fail, I would appreciate his work and think no less of him at all. He's human and will at least have tried - c'est la vie - and I've had my share of failures.

The news is good, yet I still have some questions. I'll defer some to later and hope LabRat gives more details in the next day or two. Especially looking for:

(1) Distinguishing whether this is the new ASIC chip project he was referring to or not.
(2) How the hardware price/performance will compared to Cointerra 28nm... if it's manufactured for private use, that will be a huge plus.
(3) Whether this hardware will be available exclusively to CoinSeed & LRM...or be sold retail to any miners.
(4) What kind of benefit LRM will have - e.g. will LRM be able to acquire hardware at near cost?
(5) And whether Kauffman of CoinSeed has any vested interest in LRM as a bond holder. Hopefully he does. Smiley

sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Estimated 2250mh/s per bond.... with the monarchs, and these bitfury little beasts - epic cheap power is also epic. bulllllllllish!
member
Activity: 69
Merit: 10
An independent miner.
What a bunch of Debbie Downers!

Nice news Lab Rat and great wins for your peeps.

There are plenty of unanswered questions and concerns but this is the kind of announcement that indicates the continuing growth of LRM and the huge effort you've put into this project.

I for one am happy to wait and see how things play out.
If you can throw us a bone here and there that's bonus.

Many Wow.
M31
full member
Activity: 139
Merit: 100
Thanks LR for your hard work and many successes in this ultra-competitive field!


Nevertheless, I'd like to play devil's advocate for a minute and cool the optimism around this announcement.

First, LR has announced a coming BitFury deal for 100-200 TH/s well over a month ago, in mid-December, so this isn't really news.
There are only two aspects to this which are new: the new boards and the collaboration with CoinSeed.
As for the former, the new boards may be somewhat better but I wouldn't call this a game-changer.
As for the latter, I'm still not sure how much we have to gain from economies of scale by working with CoinSeed. What percentage of the planned CoinSeed mine will belong to LRM? If it's a large percentage, than we gain little from economies of scale by collaborating. If it's small, than it might be in our best interest to compete with CoinSeed, by using LR's existing relationship with Dave to try and obtain as much gear as possible before CoinSeed comes online (which would probably be a gradual process). Just hypothesizing...

So, the only question that really matters about this BitFury deal is when will the gear arrive and start hashing. This question has yet to be answered, even though the deal has been tentatively announced over a month ago. Since the difficulty is still rising at a double-exponential rate, and will probably continue doing so in the near future, we are not-too-many-months away from the point at which 156 TH/s will yield just about the same dividends that we're getting now.


By the way, is this what LR meant by "ASIC project"? Or is that a separate thing? Because putting the same 55nm BitFury chips on a new board doesn't fit my definition of an "ASIC project"... Are we going to be involved in making our own chips?

+1

sounds good, but more info and clarification is needed

BTW: I do not think those are BitFury chips - at least not the original one. They have BioInfoBank stamped on them, and they are hashing at apparently 10GH/chip. However, they certainly look like BitFury chips. If they are BitFury, as the news article suggested, then does this really count as a new ASIC project with LRM partnering in it's development?


Maybe it's the original chip?  720 of them to an M-board.  That means just over 2GH/s/chip which is about what the BF chip does.  If they are the original chip, then I think I read somewhere that the chips do about 0.8W/GH/s, which would mean this rig can do around 1150W, call it 1200W, in minimal configuration at about 1440GH/s (yes, straight from my arse).

I've also read that these chips can do up to 2.7GH/s, but have no idea about efficiency at that level.  I'm not sure, but if the clock in the chip is voltage sensitive, an increase in voltage would increase the clock speed, but also increase the I²R losses (which would go up with both current and clock for a double whammy) and greatly increase the heat that needs to be dissipated - but since heat transfer rate is proportional to heat difference (why the r9 290x can run at furnace temp) there may be a sweet spot, even with a passive cooler.  It will certainly be interesting to see how fast the chips can be pushed -- my guess is LR will get them up to 1.7TH/s, maybe over 1.8TH/s with some active cooling.

Either way, exciting times... and this chip design could undoubtedly be ported to a smaller process node, which I wouldn't be surprised to find out will happen this year!  All speculation...

Now we just need BFL to deliver the 25TH/s and get our 156TH/s deal installed, and...  happy days.

full member
Activity: 150
Merit: 100
Why there is picostocs 100th name on this board? You bought it from them? Picostcs is secuirity as well avaliable on the market and working for some time
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