Topic: LEGAL COURSE of ACTION Discussion --- bASIC / BitcoinASIC - page 14. (Read 21289 times)

Around $600 owed here. ~$700 if you count the money lost in CC refunds due to bank fees.

unfortunately there is not too many people able to handle this situation the way you described..

Evan.
Will you private message me with your phone number. I'd like to make sure that you aren't Tom . LOL! Just kidding (mostly), but I would like to discuss/know more about the lawyer, and some ways to establish a basis of trust with anyone that wants to join with a claim. There is personal info involved, and understandably, many that would want their property back won't want to disclose their identities so easily.

||bit

This is correct.

Also Damages awarded in Court are always in $ not property... eg I if i stole your car, i am not awarded by the court a car, I am awarded funds in the value of the car.

RE: EFF, If someone wanted to draft a letter to them I have a friend that was defended by them. After explaining BTC to him, and the situation, he is more than willing to pass the letter to the group he knows with in EFF.

So, sending this letter can help a lot.



Spoke to about 14 lawyers.

1 said he is interested and would be willing to sit down with me for a consult, but before the sit down; Who are ALL of the members of this lawsuit, (eg need a comprehensive list of people defrauded by Tom, and his LLC, with address, emails, phone numbers, amount in USD of the fraud, and also If we win, if they will allow BTC in lieu of USD if possible), Where is Tom's residence? Where is the LLC located?  All relative conversations to promises, and so on.

Do we know anything about Tom's bank or financial institution? If we wired funds to him this under US Law may of constituted wire fraud, and is a criminal charge. Do we desire to get the Feds involved? If we allow the Feds to go after him, this isn't going to get us any $$$ but this could make our day in court easier.



As for paying for lawyers.... We either pay based on hourly rates (somewhere between $100-250/hr) or we offer the lawyer a % of the total funds recooped.

Is anyone BTC Savey can can look at total BTC received by Tom? Can we look at this and estimate how many orders were placed?


Bit we ought to make some Google Surveys to start collecting the information.

BTW: As of right now the thread that gives me hope we can get this into a US or International court is:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2094887/Dutch-teen-brutally-beaten-online-game-possessions.html

A Dutch teenager was beaten up and threatened with a knife after a row about virtual possessions in the popular online fantasy game RuneScape.

The 13-year-old boy was attacked because he 'picked up' an amulet and mask while playing, which two other teenagers wanted as well.

They kicked him and brandished a knife, while forcing him to log onto RuneScape and relinquish the objects.

Although the assault happened in 2007, and the two attackers were convicted in 2009, one of them appealed to the Dutch Supreme Court.

But the Netherlands' highest court upheld the theft conviction.

The suspect's lawyer had argued the amulet and mask 'were neither tangible nor material and, unlike for example electricity, had no economic value.'

But the Court said the virtual objects had an intrinsic value to the 13-year-old gamer because of 'the time and energy he invested' in winning them while playing the game.

@||bit `Stolen` better describes the situation. We will never see our money back but I'll say revenge will be sweater.

As of now total voters 85 and total value $646,600+

 

Can you post proof of your refund? Redacted of course

Just because you repeat it doesn't make it true.  Send some proof.
What is your real name?
Post a childhood photo.
What is your native language?
Are you a homosexual?  Is that legal in your country?
Do you have pets?
Post a picture of one of your pets.
Post an image of your electric bill.
Is your mother disappointed in the company you keep?
What is the ultimate resolution of the Israel - Palestine conflict?

Only the real agath would know all these things.

Your refund is not proof that Tom is not a liar.
Here is proof:
Everybody lies.  Tom is somebody.  Therefore, Tom is a liar.

Unfortunately, Tom communicates only with new users, that just appear, get a full refund and then maybe disapear. Things start to change when the first long term users start to post their refund transactions. However I don't think there will be any BTC refund without someone to convince Tom that he cannot keep the scammed bitcoins.

That plan has been brought to his attention several times. It's called the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I think that this behaviour says much about the bitcoin community, and anyway I take this as an experience on how to deal with it, for my future projects.

Writing here, I just kept the promise I made to Tom, and I really don't gain nor lose anything whether you (and all the others) believe me or not.

I would be sad if Tom will not honor his word with you as he did with me. I am afraid that if you are so aggressive, you only make things worse.

In my opinion it's better to try to understand his situation, try to re-establish communication, and work with him on a plan that allows him to refund everyone.

You might think so, but the reality of the matter is that I am agath, well known IRC person superstar extraordinaire.  So is the poster six posts above. Also the one 19 posts below.

I repeat that I am not Tom, and I am quite well known on IRC (freenode) since before the whole BTCFPGA thing. I opened this thread because I promised to leave a feedback on the forums after I received the funds. Who knows me can confirm it.

I don't hide that I became more than concerned, if not scared, until last night. I hope Tom will refund everyone, he proved to me that he is not a liar.

agath: Registered January 24, 2013, 12:00:12 PM

cablepair: Last Active/Banned:  January 23, 2013, 06:16:33 AM


Get help Tom, you're drunk again.

http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field

They will ask you a number of questions and take down you information and provide you with a phone number. Sometimes they will provide you with a number to the field agent in charge (or assigned) to your case.

Use it only as a last resort. Exhaust all options _first_ before using this one.

P.S. Keep in mind, depending on the nature of your [stated] case, they may send someone first and if there is something worthwhile they may perform a search and seizure of property. That may actually work against you in some ways, so keep that in mind.

Where's proof of this?

I suggested earlier, if this goes legal, then a discovery may reveal that a conversion was never made. This should be traceable since the wallet ID you sent your funds to was recorded at purchase time.
If the discovery is made, then that is the only case where I can imagine people getting back their original BTC - and that is still only my speculation.

Otherwise, the price on the website was in USD, and nobody was forced to use BTC to make the purchase. Therefore, you get back the value in USD.

In the BFL scenario, it's true that BFL used Bitpay as a middle man exchange. However, in the case with bASIC, Tom acted in the same way as Bitpay. He would only have needed to do an immediate conversion by an exchange on receipt of the BTC.

||bit

That thread is about BFL, who from the beginning stated they were using bitpay AND having all the BTC converted.  We're talking about a scam, bASIC, and there's no reason Tom should pocket any fraction of the BTC people sent, just because the price of it went up.  It wasn't converted.

well i might be in a differnt boat as a traded a 100 btc bar for a preorder not btc itself.

What dust wrote is correct.

What you 'feel' is not legally relevant.