mhe I feel that i paid in btc he chose to convert it to usd not me he owes me the btc that was sent.
You chose to convert your money to USD the moment you purchased something priced in USD. bASIC was advertising $1069 ASICs, not XX BTC ASICs. If you want to continue this discussion, take it here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wow-becoin-failed-to-read-and-comprehend-bfls-policy-on-btc-refunds-137026 
Topic: LEGAL COURSE of ACTION Discussion --- bASIC / BitcoinASIC - page 15. (Read 21287 times)
mhe I feel that i paid in btc he chose to convert it to usd not me he owes me the btc that was sent.
The product was priced in USD. You did not have to pay him in BTC. If he took BTC from people, and turned them into USD, then payback will almost certainly be in USD.
My opinion
is that if it can be proven that he never converted the BTC to USD, then there might be another argument there to recover original BTC.BUT unless that is discovered in the legal process, then plaintiffs (victims making charges against bASIC) probably can't initially ask for BTC. Unless, maybe it can be described & determined as "property" meant for exchange, or as some other kind of legalese. But if some paid in dollars and others in BTC, then this could become an administrative headache. So, to keep the lawyer sane, it might need to be simplified (e.g. everyone claims USD). Afterall, there are already about 80 people that have taken the poll that they have a claim against bASIC.
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I will write it in a new topic, so it will be more visible to everyone.
Thanks. If it's true, then that is good for you. But until Tom comes out publicly and defines an acceptable/reasonable plan to pay everyone of the people he took property from, then this thread will remain.
And the topic discussed is regarding a legal response to Tom's business fiasco.
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mhe I feel that i paid in btc he chose to convert it to usd not me he owes me the btc that was sent.
About BTC only, it seems to me that if Tom never sold the bitcoins, AND if bitcoins are referred to it as simply "property", then it might be no different than saying Tom has accepted any kind of property, and that he would have to return the property. But you might be right, and the point is noted.
No. The products were priced in USD, BTC was simply used as way of transferring funds. Tom owes us USD, although it can be repaid with BTC. Class action lawsuit would have to be for ALL US clients, meaning we need I think its 70%, (I think its 70%, and i forget if this is number of people or $$$)
EFF Loves to do Ground breaking Litigation and BTC is ground breaking.
Even if we win litigation in the US against him it might not be enforceable if his funds are not in an US institution, but we could seriously make his life Difficult, to use financial institutions.
Also Damages CAN NOT BE IN BTC WE MUST USE USD DAMAGES, BASED ON THE CONVERSION RATE or TRADE IN VALUE AT THE TIME OF FRAUD.... Not Today's Current MTGox Values. Or will be laughed out of court.
We Collectively need to stop referring to the BTC we lost, and instead use the real world value in USD of our damages.
EFF Loves to do Ground breaking Litigation and BTC is ground breaking.
Even if we win litigation in the US against him it might not be enforceable if his funds are not in an US institution, but we could seriously make his life Difficult, to use financial institutions.
Also Damages CAN NOT BE IN BTC WE MUST USE USD DAMAGES, BASED ON THE CONVERSION RATE or TRADE IN VALUE AT THE TIME OF FRAUD.... Not Today's Current MTGox Values. Or will be laughed out of court.
We Collectively need to stop referring to the BTC we lost, and instead use the real world value in USD of our damages.
Thanks Evans.
How could the EFF help exactly? Would their services be pro bono?
Explain what you mean about the all US clients part? Seems there should also be a way in this to compensate non US persons. I wouldn't want to see half of the clients left out.
About BTC only, it seems to me that if Tom never sold the bitcoins, AND if bitcoins are referred to it as simply "property", then it might be no different than saying Tom has accepted any kind of property, and that he would have to return the property. But you might be right, and the point is noted.
In either case, we still need a lawyer to consult directly with to describe the options and define a pathway. Did you have a chance to do any canvassing?
BTW: there is a poster in this thread that will get a free legal consultation. He is asking for questions he can ask during the consultation. If you have the chance, consider what questions he can ask and post them here if you have time.
Thanks again.
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I can't believe it.
What a coincidence...neither can we.
Agath, god you fail so badly.
Thanks. Those sound like some good ideas.
Canvasing.
Victims.
About the EFF.
Canvasing.
Victims.
About the EFF.
Class action lawsuit would have to be for ALL US clients, meaning we need I think its 70%, (I think its 70%, and i forget if this is number of people or $$$)
EFF Loves to do Ground breaking Litigation and BTC is ground breaking.
Even if we win litigation in the US against him it might not be enforceable if his funds are not in an US institution, but we could seriously make his life Difficult, to use financial institutions.
Also Damages CAN NOT BE IN BTC WE MUST USE USD DAMAGES, BASED ON THE CONVERSION RATE or TRADE IN VALUE AT THE TIME OF FRAUD.... Not Today's Current MTGox Values. Or will be laughed out of court.
We Collectively need to stop referring to the BTC we lost, and instead use the real world value in USD of our damages.
@Agath:
I don't intend any offense, but it sounds very scammy to hear you post that you suddenly received a refund when a thread about taking legal recourse against Tom has gained traction. If he intended to give back the money he has taken from the community, he best be more transparent about it before his financial life is ruined with legal troubles. Providing you with a refund but not corresponding before doing so is not an acceptable way to do business. It is even less acceptable when a good portion of this community has contacted him and asked him for a refund, yet they have received neither conformation of their requests or a refund. While your luck is note worthy, it is most definitely not a sign that Tom is prepared to return the money to the people who paid him in good faith. He obviously need to help to pay it back the BTC / Wire Transfers and the only way that is seemly going to happen is if it is forced upon him through legal recourse
I don't intend any offense, but it sounds very scammy to hear you post that you suddenly received a refund when a thread about taking legal recourse against Tom has gained traction. If he intended to give back the money he has taken from the community, he best be more transparent about it before his financial life is ruined with legal troubles. Providing you with a refund but not corresponding before doing so is not an acceptable way to do business. It is even less acceptable when a good portion of this community has contacted him and asked him for a refund, yet they have received neither conformation of their requests or a refund. While your luck is note worthy, it is most definitely not a sign that Tom is prepared to return the money to the people who paid him in good faith. He obviously need to help to pay it back the BTC / Wire Transfers and the only way that is seemly going to happen is if it is forced upon him through legal recourse
I can't believe it.
I just received the wire transfer from Thomas on my bank account.
So he isn't a liar.
However he never showed me any evidence he would have done it. No bank orders, nothing at all. And he stopped answering all my emails.
I already alerted half the world for this.
Now I was about to go to sleep, when I checked the account, like a ritual (in these days I did it so many times...) and ... SURPRISE. The money is there.
So I apologize with Tom to have called him a liar. However his communication was really poor and I didn't have any clue about what was happening. It seems that the wire transfer took 2 weeks to arrive.
There is still hope that you will see your money refunded.
I will write it in a new topic, so it will be more visible to everyone.
I just received the wire transfer from Thomas on my bank account.
So he isn't a liar.
However he never showed me any evidence he would have done it. No bank orders, nothing at all. And he stopped answering all my emails.
I already alerted half the world for this.
Now I was about to go to sleep, when I checked the account, like a ritual (in these days I did it so many times...) and ... SURPRISE. The money is there.
So I apologize with Tom to have called him a liar. However his communication was really poor and I didn't have any clue about what was happening. It seems that the wire transfer took 2 weeks to arrive.
There is still hope that you will see your money refunded.
I will write it in a new topic, so it will be more visible to everyone.
I can't believe it.
I just received the wire transfer from Thomas on my bank account.
So he isn't a liar.
However he never showed me any evidence he would have done it. No bank orders, nothing at all. And he stopped answering all my emails.
I already alerted half the world for this.
Now I was about to go to sleep, when I checked the account, like a ritual (in these days I did it so many times...) and ... SURPRISE. The money is there.
So I apologize with Tom to have called him a liar. However his communication was really poor and I didn't have any clue about what was happening. It seems that the wire transfer took 2 weeks to arrive.
There is still hope that you will see your money refunded.
I will write it in a new topic, so it will be more visible to everyone.
I just received the wire transfer from Thomas on my bank account.
So he isn't a liar.
However he never showed me any evidence he would have done it. No bank orders, nothing at all. And he stopped answering all my emails.
I already alerted half the world for this.
Now I was about to go to sleep, when I checked the account, like a ritual (in these days I did it so many times...) and ... SURPRISE. The money is there.
So I apologize with Tom to have called him a liar. However his communication was really poor and I didn't have any clue about what was happening. It seems that the wire transfer took 2 weeks to arrive.
There is still hope that you will see your money refunded.
I will write it in a new topic, so it will be more visible to everyone.
Simple......
Even for people in Europe... report it as a case of "money laundering", seems these are the words that wake banks/police Authorities up.
Please stop using the words "scammer" and start using the words "money laundering", Google will soon pick it up.
Even for people in Europe... report it as a case of "money laundering", seems these are the words that wake banks/police Authorities up.
Please stop using the words "scammer" and start using the words "money laundering", Google will soon pick it up.
Bokai
Simple......
Even for people in Europe... report it as a case of "money laundering", seems these are the words that wake banks/police Authorities up.
Please stop using the words "scammer" and start using the words "money laundering", Google will soon pick it up.
Even for people in Europe... report it as a case of "money laundering", seems these are the words that wake banks/police Authorities up.
Please stop using the words "scammer" and start using the words "money laundering", Google will soon pick it up.
what would /bitcointalk like me to ask my attorney? please be SPECIFIC! rep said, i'll be receiving a call within 24hrs (...as of 4PM MST)
naturally i have my own questions which will aid in our cause, but help me, help you (guys)
naturally i have my own questions which will aid in our cause, but help me, help you (guys)
- What are the possibilities of class action?
- Can we be refunded USD via check in lieu of BTC refund?
- What is the legal entity that owes us money if BTCFPGA, LLC does not exist?
- Do "investors" in bitcoinASIC have obligation to repay customers if no LLC existed?
- What is the legal implication of Tom's various "GAURANTEES"?
what would /bitcointalk like me to ask my attorney? please be SPECIFIC! rep said, i'll be receiving a call within 24hrs (...as of 4PM MST)
naturally i have my own questions which will aid in our cause, but help me, help you (guys)
what other q's might he ask that i should know answer to? business name, LLC, city Tom/business resides in, associates, etc???
naturally i have my own questions which will aid in our cause, but help me, help you (guys)
what other q's might he ask that i should know answer to? business name, LLC, city Tom/business resides in, associates, etc???
Tom owes me more than $100K. I have a signed contract (which has not been respected) and I paid through a wire transfer. I live in EU.
I am in Canada.
I ordered 1 x $1099 unit for 103.8785 btc (ouch).
I have a screenshot of my invoice with payment address.
I ordered 1 x $1099 unit for 103.8785 btc (ouch).
I have a screenshot of my invoice with payment address.
Anyone with some sense of what is needed from a lawyer, feel free to search for possible lawyers (online) in any nearby cities. A couple persons in the thread are already looking. But more eyes searching for possibilities won't hurt. For example: Starting looking in Fulton. Then some relatively near cities like Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Albany, and New York City.
Or other nearby locations:
http://goo.gl/maps/yQiiG
Seems to me there has to be a lawyer somewhere in New York.
Outside New York seems possible, since property was traded across state and international borders. So, it seems it could be a federal case, if any.
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Or other nearby locations:
http://goo.gl/maps/yQiiG
Seems to me there has to be a lawyer somewhere in New York.
Outside New York seems possible, since property was traded across state and international borders. So, it seems it could be a federal case, if any.
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$1100, but bitcoin price at that moment was around $11, so much more.
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