Lets play a game of Chess - page 72.

XMRpromotions

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Quote from: dre1982 on September 21, 2015, 08:52:17 AM

Quote from: Febo on September 21, 2015, 08:47:05 AM

15. Bc7

You might ignore me since i am just found this thread. I usually play cheese so slow that my opponents gets sleepy. This 1 month game would be perfect for me. Tongue

I also play Cheese :-p

I have also looked at that move but it doesn't do that much. It would be better if the bishop could go to b6 after that but his knight defending that field.

I also vote 15. Bc7 because it does do something. If black plays Re8 or Rf8 we have gained time (forced a rook off its ideal file) and can play one of our other ideas

If 15. Bc7 Rdc8 we play 16. Bf4 again.

It may look like we have wasted a move, but we have not. The reason is simple. Black would like to play Rac8 developing his last rook and making room for his queen (Qa8 could be helpful to apply more pressure on the long diagonal). Basically the goal is to make black move the d8 rook to c8 instead of the a8 rook. After black plays Rdc8 he has zero free squares to move his a8 rook or a7 queen

Of course in the line I proposed black could repeat, but I think a draw by repetition would be good for us here

15. Bc7 Rdc8
16. Bf4 Rd8
17. Bc7 Rdc8
18. Bf4 Rd8

If black does not like this he must find another plan..... and he will not be able to immediately move his a8 rook on c8 and leave his d8 rook on d8 (ideal squares) like he could if we make one of our other proposed moves (15. e4. 15. Rac1, 15. b3 etc)

languagehasmeaning

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Quote from: actmyname on September 22, 2015, 04:18:31 PM

Quote from: languagehasmeaning on September 22, 2015, 04:10:55 PM

Both 50 move rule and stalemate are extremely rare at high level.

I did find one very recent example (from World Cup) where 50 move rule should have ended the game until Bruzon blundered at the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjsHwPYjAPA

Reason why they're so rare? This should be obvious, but GMs already know if a game is drawn or not and they'll agree prior to any forced drawing conditions.

I agree with you. I just posted an interesting example of where it almost happened.

actmyname

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Quote from: languagehasmeaning on September 22, 2015, 04:10:55 PM

Both 50 move rule and stalemate are extremely rare at high level.

I did find one very recent example (from World Cup) where 50 move rule should have ended the game until Bruzon blundered at the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjsHwPYjAPA

Reason why they're so rare? This should be obvious, but GMs already know if a game is drawn or not and they'll agree prior to any forced drawing conditions.

languagehasmeaning

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Quote from: actmyname on September 22, 2015, 03:09:56 PM

Quote from: Taras on September 22, 2015, 09:50:03 AM

I think I'd rather see us survive as long as possible, maybe go for 1/2-1/2 by getting stalemated or pulling the fifty move rule.

Coming from a chess player, the best chance we have (should we lose a pawn) is either opposite colored bishop ending or rook ending. Keep your eyes peeled for possible queen trades.

Though an endgame will be difficult against an experienced player, if we pool our resources together and pick the best moves, it will eventually turn into a draw.

Both 50 move rule and stalemate are extremely rare at high level.

I did find one very recent example (from World Cup) where 50 move rule should have ended the game until Bruzon blundered at the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjsHwPYjAPA

actmyname

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Quote from: Taras on September 22, 2015, 09:50:03 AM

I think I'd rather see us survive as long as possible, maybe go for 1/2-1/2 by getting stalemated or pulling the fifty move rule.

Coming from a chess player, the best chance we have (should we lose a pawn) is either opposite colored bishop ending or rook ending. Keep your eyes peeled for possible queen trades.

Though an endgame will be difficult against an experienced player, if we pool our resources together and pick the best moves, it will eventually turn into a draw.

Taras

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Quote from: scruffy scruffington on September 22, 2015, 01:18:29 AM

Hi. Iteresting idea, I like long chess parties.) Let me in too.)

I have several thoughts.
1. We can allow to vote for several moves, I think it is more correct variant.
2. May be we should vote for the strategy for several moves before we vote for the move?
3. I think that if TS is world class player, we can't win or even survive just defending our position, we should attack in some point no matter how week our position in other points, it is the only way to have a chance to win. ) So, I like Ng5 or h4: play fast, die young.)

What do you think about this? Sorry if I missed some discussions in this topic about this ideas.)

I think I'd rather see us survive as long as possible, maybe go for 1/2-1/2 by getting stalemated or pulling the fifty move rule.

Timelord2067

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I take it we haven't moved yet?

boolberry

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Quote from: scruffy scruffington on September 22, 2015, 01:18:29 AM

Hi. Iteresting idea, I like long chess parties.) Let me in too.)

I have several thoughts.
1. We can allow to vote for several moves, I think it is more correct variant.
2. May be we should vote for the strategy for several moves before we vote for the move?
3. I think that if TS is world class player, we can't win or even survive just defending our position, we should attack in some point no matter how week our position in other points, it is the only way to have a chance to win. ) So, I like Ng5 or h4: play fast, die young.)

What do you think about this? Sorry if I missed some discussions in this topic about this ideas.)

I like your idea of voting for a strategy several moves in advance. Our opponent obviously has a strategy and thinks many moves ahead. We should try to do the same.

Our best strategy is probably to focus on the middle of the board. We need to advance our e or d pawns and make an open file for our rooks. Our opponents strategy will probably be to attack us by advancing his c pawn after moving a rook to c8. If we can find a way to fight in the center and defend on the queenside at the same time that would be ideal.

Its unlikely your strategy of Ng5 or h4 will work. Even if our pawn was not on d3 blocking our queen on the b1-h7 diagonal, h7 is still well defended by blacks knight on f6 so Ng5 does not really do anything besides trading our g2 bishop for the bishop on b7. What is your idea with h4? I don't see how that would help us attack

dre1982

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Quote from: scruffy scruffington on September 22, 2015, 01:18:29 AM

Hi. Iteresting idea, I like long chess parties.) Let me in too.)

I have several thoughts.
1. We can allow to vote for several moves, I think it is more correct variant.
2. May be we should vote for the strategy for several moves before we vote for the move?
3. I think that if TS is world class player, we can't win or even survive just defending our position, we should attack in some point no matter how week our position in other points, it is the only way to have a chance to win. ) So, I like Ng5 or h4: play fast, die young.)

What do you think about this? Sorry if I missed some discussions in this topic about this ideas.)

Playing fast and aggressive isn't the way. I tried that in a simultan against Seirawan but they can defend it easily. Making the position as hard as possible is the correct way.

scruffy scruffington

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Hi. Iteresting idea, I like long chess parties.) Let me in too.)

I have several thoughts.
1. We can allow to vote for several moves, I think it is more correct variant.
2. May be we should vote for the strategy for several moves before we vote for the move?
3. I think that if TS is world class player, we can't win or even survive just defending our position, we should attack in some point no matter how week our position in other points, it is the only way to have a chance to win. ) So, I like Ng5 or h4: play fast, die young.)

What do you think about this? Sorry if I missed some discussions in this topic about this ideas.)

letsplayagame

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Quote from: Taras on September 21, 2015, 08:57:53 PM

Update, assuming actmyname & languagehasmeaning just voted b3

b3-party is having a comeback!:

Quote from: Taras on September 12, 2015, 11:23:43 AM

Thanks for the graph. I posted it on Twitter

https://twitter.com/ChessBTC/status/646172999905841152

Taras

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I'm starting to think 14. axb4 would have been a better move. Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't know what to make of it.

languagehasmeaning

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Quote from: actmyname on September 21, 2015, 08:54:52 PM

Quote from: languagehasmeaning on September 21, 2015, 08:40:16 PM

Quote from: actmyname on September 21, 2015, 03:08:30 PM

If we vote e4 then that's going to cause a serious backward pawn weakness on d3. You also hem in your fianchettoed bishop. Honestly, I'd still want b3 to be played.

I hate being stuck on the defensive. I liked the plan of going for d4 after we played Rfd1. It looks like d4 is harder to play than I thought for tactical reasons.

It sounds like we know black is planning Rac8 and c4 I will support b3 now to slow him down.

Definitely d4 cannot be played due to c4 by black.
If we want to play d4 ourselves we need to go h3 Be3 b3 then d4 which allows black a lot of time to generate counterplay, maybe in the form of a kingside attack

I mentioned h3 and Be3 a few moves ago (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12458977) but you are right about it being a slow plan

The more I look at the current position the less I like it:(

Taras

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Update, assuming actmyname & languagehasmeaning just voted b3

b3-party is having a comeback!:

Quote from: Taras on September 12, 2015, 11:23:43 AM

actmyname

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Quote from: languagehasmeaning on September 21, 2015, 08:40:16 PM

Quote from: actmyname on September 21, 2015, 03:08:30 PM

If we vote e4 then that's going to cause a serious backward pawn weakness on d3. You also hem in your fianchettoed bishop. Honestly, I'd still want b3 to be played.

I hate being stuck on the defensive. I liked the plan of going for d4 after we played Rfd1. It looks like d4 is harder to play than I thought for tactical reasons.

It sounds like we know black is planning Rac8 and c4 I will support b3 now to slow him down.

Definitely d4 cannot be played due to c4 by black.
If we want to play d4 ourselves we need to go h3 Be3 b3 then d4 which allows black a lot of time to generate counterplay, maybe in the form of a kingside attack

languagehasmeaning

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Quote from: actmyname on September 21, 2015, 03:08:30 PM

If we vote e4 then that's going to cause a serious backward pawn weakness on d3. You also hem in your fianchettoed bishop. Honestly, I'd still want b3 to be played.

I hate being stuck on the defensive. I liked the plan of going for d4 after we played Rfd1. It looks like d4 is harder to play than I thought for tactical reasons.

It sounds like we know black is planning Rac8 and c4 I will support 15. b3 now to slow him down.

actmyname

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If we vote e4 then that's going to cause a serious backward pawn weakness on d3. You also hem in your fianchettoed bishop. Honestly, I'd still want b3 to be played.

Taras

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Quote from: abacus on September 21, 2015, 01:31:06 PM

Here is a recap including my vote:

15. e4 6 votes (boolberry, ErisDiscordia, gotmilk_, dre1982, Foxpup, abacus)
15. Bc7 2 votes (Febo, jjacob)
15. Ng5 1 vote (bitcoinboy12)
15. Ra3 1 vote (Timelord2067)
15. Rac1 1 vote (neochiny)

(Edit: I hope it's right, but I see there is some differences from the graph Taras has posted while I was writing this)

Yeah I think you're right; I thought the Ng5 vote was a prediction at first glance
Also I officially vote 15. Bc7 so here are the updated charts:

abacus

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Quote from: boolberry on September 20, 2015, 10:16:51 PM

My idea is that we can still play e4 now and meet Rac8 with Re1. Then after he plays c4 we can play dxc4 (or even d4) and we still have our pawn on e4 sufficiently defended. If you don't like the idea of moving our rook again we can play b3 after Rac8 instead of Re1

You've sold me on it.
15. e4 for me too, please.

Here is a recap including my vote:

15. e4 6 votes (boolberry, ErisDiscordia, gotmilk_, dre1982, Foxpup, abacus)
15. Bc7 2 votes (Febo, jjacob)
15. Ng5 1 vote (bitcoinboy12)
15. Ra3 1 vote (Timelord2067)
15. Rac1 1 vote (neochiny)

(Edit: I hope it's right, but I see there is some differences from the graph Taras has posted while I was writing this)

Quote from: neochiny on September 21, 2015, 09:54:03 AM

Rac1 plz... since e4 is not good because our d3 pawn will be weak in the end. like the a5 pawn...
and Bc7 is just a useless move since unless you guys want to exchange it.

Our d3 pawn is probably a dead man walking already, waiting for his own sacrifice to capture the black c-pawn when he moves.

Quote from: jjacob on September 21, 2015, 09:45:45 AM

I would say 15 Bc7.
We drive away the Rook and we can always bring our bishop back (if it is attacked).

The problem here is that we'll probably drive the Rook in a still favorable position, i.e. on c1. In this case we have to come back with the Bishop, with very few advantages for us. Maybe we could look again at Bc7 once the d file is open (if our Rook is still on d1).

Taras

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Current standings:

I don't know fam, I think e4 is a dangerous move. I may vote Bc7, but I am really not sure yet.

Quote from: neochiny on September 21, 2015, 09:54:03 AM

and Bc7 is just a useless move since unless you guys want to exchange it.

Bc7 will lock the queen in place until black spends a turn pushing our bishop back. And when black does that, we'll know he plans to use the queen.

Quote from: boolberry on September 20, 2015, 11:27:59 PM

Quote from: Taras on September 20, 2015, 09:23:12 PM

I think I'm starting to notice that usually after posting the charts, the #1 position becomes a lot more popular. I'm not sure if this is the bandwagon effect or coincidence but it's making me nervous.

Bandwagon effect is definitely possible but how can this be easily prevented? Anyone can still manually count votes without a chart being posted.

Do you think we should move to secret ballots? Some people may choose not to participate if there are too many rules about voting.

I don't think secret ballots would be right. We should be allowed to hear eachother's ideas, and collaborate.

Maybe we can address this issue by periodically electing a "president" or "oversight" to veto poor moves, providing they have less than 2/3 of the vote.

Topic: Lets play a game of Chess - page 72. (Read 160681 times)