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Topic: Marketplace trust - page 24. (Read 83249 times)

member
Activity: 92
Merit: 10
June 06, 2013, 05:50:16 PM
Imo, it's working pretty well and is very informative.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=58873


100% of the feedback is negative yet 50% didn't check the 'scammed' box. Does that mean they gave positive feedback accidentally?
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
June 06, 2013, 04:56:17 PM
By the way are we trusted feedback on ourselves by default since I see two lists trusted feedback and untrusted feeback
See John K and Badbear as trusted and myself but don't remember making a trust list

Yes. You trust yourself regardless of whether you're actually in your trust network.
member
Activity: 80
Merit: 10
June 06, 2013, 04:23:44 PM

By the way are we trusted feedback on ourselves by default since I see two lists trusted feedback and untrusted feeback
See John K and Badbear as trusted and myself but don't remember making a trust list

By default everyone trusts DefaultTrust, if you go to your trust settings you will see who is included.. You will see any feedback you leave for someone else as trusted because you trust yourself
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
June 02, 2013, 03:07:29 PM
Hey theymos, you trust DeaDTerra, who trusts Vezunchik. The latter has sent this nonsensical negative feedback to Garr255.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=24589

Please either:
  • Tell Vezunchik to remove it
  • Tell DeaDTerra to remove Vezunchik
  • Remove DeaDTerra

Thanks.

Wait you want theymos to change how he trust people, that is a little messed up. That isn't how it should work.
That's the way it does work. Theymos trusts Vezunchik through a middleman, but Veunchik is abusing the system. This is a problem, especially when it's theymos, because he has the default trust list. It's up to him to fix it, and it highlights the problem with the default trust not being empty.
Yes by proxy theymos trust him, now your asking him to remove his trust to that user, or tell DeaDTerra to remove him. That is not how the system works, you probably should change your depth so you don't see the user, not have theymos remove the user he trust.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1094
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
June 06, 2013, 04:20:03 PM

By the way are we trusted feedback on ourselves by default since I see two lists trusted feedback and untrusted feeback
See John K and Badbear as trusted and myself but don't remember making a trust list
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 502
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
June 06, 2013, 12:23:39 AM
People may argue that this doesn't matter, but any person scrolling through a trust list seeing a bunch of red is going to be affected.  Whether or not they trust the person who gave the feedback.
member
Activity: 92
Merit: 10
June 04, 2013, 07:54:32 PM
If you don't tick the 'scammed' box, it's positive feedback and they get a +1.

I don't think people understand this.

See this one:   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=114684

5 feedbacks that say "scammer", but they did not check the Scammed checkbox for whatever reason.


Maybe instead, a radio button?

"I rate this person : ( )Postive  ( )Negative"
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1015
June 04, 2013, 03:10:54 PM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=44233

not that i really care but one guy as a joke listed me as a scammer 3 times. what will this do to my rating? 3x as bad or just normal?
Theymos silently changed it to only count once late last week, I believe. That being said, the rating is untrusted off of the default trust graph, so I wouldn't worry about it.
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
June 02, 2013, 09:18:32 PM
That's the way it does work. Theymos trusts Vezunchik through a middleman, but Veunchik is abusing the system. This is a problem, especially when it's theymos, because he has the default trust list. It's up to him to fix it, and it highlights the problem with the default trust not being empty.

This rating isn't visible by default. Things are a little different from how they originally were: By default, you trust "DefaultTrust", not me directly. So it's not a problem for the default trust network when someone in my trust list has a bad trust list unless they're also trusted by DefaultTrust (which DeaDTerra is not).

Wait you want theymos to change how he trust people, that is a little messed up. That isn't how it should work.

No, that's reasonable. This system isn't perfect: it's more of a "choose your own moderator" system than a true web of trust. Anyone in your trust list should be someone who carefully maintains their trust network and watches for bad ratings. (I will create tools to make it easier to watch for good/bad ratings in and out of your trust network.) It's OK to alert these people when there's something wrong IMO.

Problems like this one with Garr255 will become less of an issue as time goes on, though. It'll be very difficult for someone to get a negative trust score unless they're fairly new. I don't believe that any trust scoring system can accurately rate people when they've been around for a long time and gained a lot of trust. Either negative trust scores will become so prevalent as to be meaningless, or everyone who's been around for a long time will be able to easily scam for at least several weeks before getting negative trust scores. To solve this, I think I'll create a separate arbitration system using scammer tags; with this, even if you have a trust score of one million, you'll get a scammer tag if you lose in arbitration.

Theymos.... do you ever consider admitting to yourself that someone in a position of authority (such as yourself) is more appropriate to judge the trustworthiness of other individuals involved in the transaction precisely because you don't give half a shit about them? It's easy to "care about justice" as a juror... but it's much more difficult when you have a gun to the head of your wife's murderer. When it's a puzzle, it's easy and objective. The worst thing you could do would be to allow those involved in transactions to rate others -- to give them the gun.

The trust system is meant to defend against scammers and alts of scammers who don't have significant previous trade history. (Currently, Garr255 doesn't have much trade history according to the trust system.) It's a scammer early warning system and a database of trade info that people can use as part of a trust judgement. Justice needs to be done with something else.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1015
June 02, 2013, 03:14:10 PM
Theymos.... do you ever consider admitting to yourself that someone in a position of authority (such as yourself) is more appropriate to judge the trustworthiness of other individuals involved in the transaction precisely because you don't give half a shit about them? It's easy to "care about justice" as a juror... but it's much more difficult when you have a gun to the head of your wife's murderer. When it's a puzzle, it's easy and objective. The worst thing you could do would be to allow those involved in transactions to rate others -- to give them the gun.


/devil's curious advocate
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
June 02, 2013, 02:47:06 PM
Hey theymos, you trust DeaDTerra, who trusts Vezunchik. The latter has sent this nonsensical negative feedback to Garr255.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=24589

Please either:
  • Tell Vezunchik to remove it
  • Tell DeaDTerra to remove Vezunchik
  • Remove DeaDTerra

Thanks.

Wait you want theymos to change how he trust people, that is a little messed up. That isn't how it should work.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
0xFB0D8D1534241423
June 02, 2013, 02:57:58 PM
Hey theymos, you trust DeaDTerra, who trusts Vezunchik. The latter has sent this nonsensical negative feedback to Garr255.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=24589

Please either:
  • Tell Vezunchik to remove it
  • Tell DeaDTerra to remove Vezunchik
  • Remove DeaDTerra

Thanks.

Wait you want theymos to change how he trust people, that is a little messed up. That isn't how it should work.
That's the way it does work. Theymos trusts Vezunchik through a middleman, but Veunchik is abusing the system. This is a problem, especially when it's theymos, because he has the default trust list. It's up to him to fix it, and it highlights the problem with the default trust not being empty.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
0xFB0D8D1534241423
June 02, 2013, 02:28:08 PM
Hey theymos, you trust DeaDTerra, who trusts Vezunchik. The latter has sent this nonsensical negative feedback to Garr255.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=24589

Please either:
  • Tell Vezunchik to remove it
  • Tell DeaDTerra to remove Vezunchik
  • Remove DeaDTerra

Thanks.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
June 02, 2013, 02:43:16 AM

trust rating too complicated.
member
Activity: 80
Merit: 10
June 02, 2013, 02:26:19 AM
Extended to PMs and many other boards (Trading discussion and subsections, Mining and subsections, Newbies, alt cryptocurrencies, and some local sections).

Having it here would be nice, would probably benefit the discussion and help with understanding how it works
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
June 01, 2013, 11:53:35 PM
If you don't tick the 'scammed' box, it's positive feedback and they get a +1.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Jack of oh so many trades.
June 01, 2013, 11:36:40 PM
I think the 'scammed' checkbox needs to be renamed to 'negative feedback' or something similar. I just looked at a few feedback profiles, and see some people are leaving negative feedback for others, but not checking the scam box... which as I understand it, is the same as positive feedback(?)

I wasn't clear on this either, at first. Someone left me false negative feedback, so I wrote feedback for him, but since he didn't scam me, I didn't check the box, and I think it ended up helping him! (I just deleted it and re-did it with the scam checkbox, and now it correctly shows up as red)

Just a thought...

+1 for this, I may distrust people based on  their actions/posts without being scammed myself (e.g. someone posting phishing links).
It would be nice if you could choose between leaving a negative impression and an actual scam report.

I think it can be used like that as is--Post a negative, and just say you risked 0 BTC. People will see your comment if they check out the person's trust, but it won't really affect their number.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
June 01, 2013, 04:14:22 PM
I think the 'scammed' checkbox needs to be renamed to 'negative feedback' or something similar. I just looked at a few feedback profiles, and see some people are leaving negative feedback for others, but not checking the scam box... which as I understand it, is the same as positive feedback(?)

I wasn't clear on this either, at first. Someone left me false negative feedback, so I wrote feedback for him, but since he didn't scam me, I didn't check the box, and I think it ended up helping him! (I just deleted it and re-did it with the scam checkbox, and now it correctly shows up as red)

Just a thought...

+1 for this, I may distrust people based on  their actions/posts without being scammed myself (e.g. someone posting phishing links).
It would be nice if you could choose between leaving a negative impression and an actual scam report.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
June 01, 2013, 09:01:50 AM
AWESOME!!!!  This is amazing.
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