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Topic: MARS one on 2025 - page 2. (Read 7039 times)

legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
September 25, 2015, 09:27:35 AM
Before people say potatoes don't weight much - it's not the weight of the potatoes but the half meter of soil you'll need to carry, not to mention fertilizer and water.  Soil that will need to be re-energized each year by the death of billions of insects, which of course won't exist there.

We won't make it to Mars until we have colonized the moon and are creating what we need there.  It takes 1/6 the energy to lift off than from Earth.

This issue of "growing plants on Mars to survive" is exactly the plot of the upcoming movie, "The Martian."

You beat me to it. I was going to say that. Anyway its a very clever movie, it gives people idea of how they are going to Grow plant on mars, if there is another mars mission then people will have the general idea of how to grow plant on mars.

I read the novel and was impressed.  At that time I did think it would make a good movie plot, a la "Castaways."  Very curious as to how it presents on screen.
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1115
September 25, 2015, 08:37:49 AM
Before people say potatoes don't weight much - it's not the weight of the potatoes but the half meter of soil you'll need to carry, not to mention fertilizer and water.  Soil that will need to be re-energized each year by the death of billions of insects, which of course won't exist there.

We won't make it to Mars until we have colonized the moon and are creating what we need there.  It takes 1/6 the energy to lift off than from Earth.

This issue of "growing plants on Mars to survive" is exactly the plot of the upcoming movie, "The Martian."

You beat me to it. I was going to say that. Anyway its a very clever movie, it gives people idea of how they are going to Grow plant on mars, if there is another mars mission then people will have the general idea of how to grow plant on mars.
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
September 24, 2015, 09:59:38 PM
This is a really romantic idea. I don't see it as a serious project. It would be really nice if NASA got a serious budget to plan a real mission like this.

Not really.  It's CAST as a really romantic idea, a great adventure.

Reality is it's people living in a can or more likely, in a can buried in a cave, and having to put a complicated suit on anytime they go outside. 
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
September 24, 2015, 05:38:52 PM
First we have to go on the moon again.
Mission is planned on 2020 if i'm not wrong.
Wrongness bolded.

Try "we need to learn more about" instead.

Exactly.

In addition, we don't need taxes to go for doing any of it. Somebody want to volunteer their funds and life? Have at it. Just don't force the rest of us to finance something that we don't want.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
September 24, 2015, 05:10:11 PM
First we have to go on the moon again.
Mission is planned on 2020 if i'm not wrong.
Wrongness bolded.

Try "we need to learn more about" instead.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
September 24, 2015, 03:09:56 PM
The problem with NASA programs is, it works off grants off taxes. What this means is, if there is anyone who happens to be dead set against NASA, he is forced to help pay through taxes.

In other words, any moon or Martian plan is a slavery plan for many if not most of the people.

Smiley
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
September 24, 2015, 12:37:49 PM
This is a really romantic idea. I don't see it as a serious project. It would be really nice if NASA got a serious budget to plan a real mission like this.
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
September 24, 2015, 12:29:08 PM
First we have to go on the moon again.
Mission is planned on 2020 if i'm not wrong.
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
September 12, 2015, 07:54:15 AM
Before people say potatoes don't weight much - it's not the weight of the potatoes but the half meter of soil you'll need to carry, not to mention fertilizer and water.  Soil that will need to be re-energized each year by the death of billions of insects, which of course won't exist there.

We won't make it to Mars until we have colonized the moon and are creating what we need there.  It takes 1/6 the energy to lift off than from Earth.

This issue of "growing plants on Mars to survive" is exactly the plot of the upcoming movie, "The Martian."
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
September 12, 2015, 03:52:02 AM
Before people say potatoes don't weight much - it's not the weight of the potatoes but the half meter of soil you'll need to carry, not to mention fertilizer and water.  Soil that will need to be re-energized each year by the death of billions of insects, which of course won't exist there.

We won't make it to Mars until we have colonized the moon and are creating what we need there.  It takes 1/6 the energy to lift off than from Earth.
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
September 12, 2015, 12:57:12 AM
...

A company called Bigelow Aerospace may have the answer.
nope.

Now how much land does it take to support one human?

One acre of potatoes will feed a man for one year.
Now figure the WEIGHT of "habitats for plants" that would need to be sent to mars to support that one person.  Multiply that weight by the number of people you want in the "colony."  Then figure the useful lifetime of the equipment, and figure the WEIGHT of the resupply missions.

Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
September 12, 2015, 12:43:09 AM
Now how much land does it take to support one human?

One acre of potatoes will feed a man for one year.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
September 11, 2015, 10:13:29 AM
It seems that some users have exposed MARS one as a scam but it was not needed if the governments of the world cannot do it then, no one can. Besides there is simply not a good reason to go right now to mars, maybe in the future, there’s no rush.

There is a very good reason to go to Mars - all of humanity's eggs are on one basket planet - literally.  Smiley



I disagree with this if that is what you want, the moon could be enough. When I made my statement I meant “economic reasons to go to mars”. If an extinction level event that could destroy the earth and the moon was detected then we will have a reason to go to mars, but since this is not the case I think we’re fine on planet earth.
No.

It is actually a bit less costly in propellant to go Earth to Mars as opposed to Earth to Moon.  Also Mars has plenty of the elements needed for life, such as N, H, and C.  These basically do not exist on the Moon, with the possible exception of the ice deposits currently being studied at the poles.

Because of the lack of basic elements on the Moon, it is not possible to build self sustaining colonies there.  For example, you could not make plastics.  Iron could not be turned into steel because of the scarcity of Carbon.  Many such issues.  The Moon is good for many things, but human settlements, no.

Mars is better suited, but we are a long way from ready to do it.

Until such a time that we find that Mars has humic microbes, we would need to take some along if we ever wanted grow any plants in Mars soil.

Smiley
There is no soil as you know it on Mars.  Soil here is over 40% long decomposed insects and fauna.  Think of Martian soil as simple powdered rock.

Powdered rock along with water, nitrogen, oxygen and carbon are exactly the things that humic microbes need to make soil. Of course, the process is enhanced by other things, including certain fungi that can live on rock. Extra protection for humic microbes from radiation may be necessary, since the atmosphere of Mars is so thin.

Wikipedia tells us that the process isn't fully understood. Possibly we would have great difficulty creating soil out of Martian rock on Mars, and it might even be impossible to do and maintain outside of laboratory conditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humus

http://www.the-compost-gardener.com/soil.html

Smiley

Any "gardening" that was done on Mars would have to be done inside a pressure vessel with artificial lighting and as you mention, "manufactured soil."

There is no known way to make such vessels on Mar out of native materials, and certainly no known way to make the parts for artificial lighting or collection of solar power, and creation of electricial to run artificial lights.  These areas would have to be temperature controlled.

All together this makes it very difficult to think in terms of acres of farmland.

Now how much land does it take to support one human?

A company called Bigelow Aerospace may have the answer. They have built blimp-like space stations - http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/bigelow-aerospace-shows-its-expandable-space-station-future-n322521. NASA is looking into this, and the thing might actually be way more practical than a first glance would suggest.

Float a blimp to Mars, or fly it there on a spacecraft, and set it up on the surface of Mars as a habitat. Actually, many such blimps could be shipped to Mars, un-inflated, in one flight. All materials for living conditions could be onboard.

Google "blimp space station" for more info.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
September 11, 2015, 09:12:33 AM
It seems that some users have exposed MARS one as a scam but it was not needed if the governments of the world cannot do it then, no one can. Besides there is simply not a good reason to go right now to mars, maybe in the future, there’s no rush.

There is a very good reason to go to Mars - all of humanity's eggs are on one basket planet - literally.  Smiley



I disagree with this if that is what you want, the moon could be enough. When I made my statement I meant “economic reasons to go to mars”. If an extinction level event that could destroy the earth and the moon was detected then we will have a reason to go to mars, but since this is not the case I think we’re fine on planet earth.
No.

It is actually a bit less costly in propellant to go Earth to Mars as opposed to Earth to Moon.  Also Mars has plenty of the elements needed for life, such as N, H, and C.  These basically do not exist on the Moon, with the possible exception of the ice deposits currently being studied at the poles.

Because of the lack of basic elements on the Moon, it is not possible to build self sustaining colonies there.  For example, you could not make plastics.  Iron could not be turned into steel because of the scarcity of Carbon.  Many such issues.  The Moon is good for many things, but human settlements, no.

Mars is better suited, but we are a long way from ready to do it.

Until such a time that we find that Mars has humic microbes, we would need to take some along if we ever wanted grow any plants in Mars soil.

Smiley
There is no soil as you know it on Mars.  Soil here is over 40% long decomposed insects and fauna.  Think of Martian soil as simple powdered rock.

Powdered rock along with water, nitrogen, oxygen and carbon are exactly the things that humic microbes need to make soil. Of course, the process is enhanced by other things, including certain fungi that can live on rock. Extra protection for humic microbes from radiation may be necessary, since the atmosphere of Mars is so thin.

Wikipedia tells us that the process isn't fully understood. Possibly we would have great difficulty creating soil out of Martian rock on Mars, and it might even be impossible to do and maintain outside of laboratory conditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humus

http://www.the-compost-gardener.com/soil.html

Smiley

Any "gardening" that was done on Mars would have to be done inside a pressure vessel with artificial lighting and as you mention, "manufactured soil."

There is no known way to make such vessels on Mar out of native materials, and certainly no known way to make the parts for artificial lighting or collection of solar power, and creation of electricial to run artificial lights.  These areas would have to be temperature controlled.

All together this makes it very difficult to think in terms of acres of farmland.

Now how much land does it take to support one human?
sr. member
Activity: 344
Merit: 250
September 10, 2015, 04:08:12 PM
I thinks it will be a one way trip for all the participants.  They don't possess the necessities to accomplish keeping those people alive.
They will really be sorry they did that.. in the end and we will still be warring our selves to death here on Earth and waiting for Russia or China to sell us rides up and down to a new SSI station.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
September 10, 2015, 05:54:15 AM
If I'm not wrong, colonization of Mars will never take place.   Smiley
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
September 10, 2015, 05:41:55 AM
#99
If i'm not wrong,mission to mars will take place on 2030
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
September 10, 2015, 05:36:53 AM
#98
It is a brilliant plan and it marks the beginning of Man's space colonization. However, I do find that it would be far more important to first build an outpost on the moon.

If we want to go far of our system the moon could be the best space airport for interstellar voyages.
The question is why? As somebody already said, a colony on Moon would not be self-sustainable. Even if we had far more advanced technology that would probably still be impossible. Besides, what do we have to gain from making an outpost there? The Moon has nothing that we could use as far as I know. Our best bet would be Mars for now, however who knows how long it will be before we can even reach other potential colonies.

RE bolded above, the lunar surface is typically over 10% titanium, 10% iron, 10% aluminum.  These are in the form of oxides, usually "under oxidized."

80% of propellant weight for a O2/H2 engine is O2, so take it from there.  A large percentage of the structure of a space vehicle is lightweight metals....

Still, using present-day technology that can be supplied with available funding, both, colonizing the moon and colonizing Mars would be more uncertain that sailing the ocean like Columbus and the early colonists of America did. Sure, they did it. But many ships sank. Many people died. And many of them died once the got here.

Mars and the moon are so difficult that given the technology we have, even though we can do it, many will die in the process... and they still would, even if we had unlimited funding for the process.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
September 09, 2015, 07:38:32 PM
#97
It is a brilliant plan and it marks the beginning of Man's space colonization. However, I do find that it would be far more important to first build an outpost on the moon.

If we want to go far of our system the moon could be the best space airport for interstellar voyages.
The question is why? As somebody already said, a colony on Moon would not be self-sustainable. Even if we had far more advanced technology that would probably still be impossible. Besides, what do we have to gain from making an outpost there? The Moon has nothing that we could use as far as I know. Our best bet would be Mars for now, however who knows how long it will be before we can even reach other potential colonies.

RE bolded above, the lunar surface is typically over 10% titanium, 10% iron, 10% aluminum.  These are in the form of oxides, usually "under oxidized."

80% of propellant weight for a O2/H2 engine is O2, so take it from there.  A large percentage of the structure of a space vehicle is lightweight metals....
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
September 09, 2015, 01:03:58 PM
#96
It is a brilliant plan and it marks the beginning of Man's space colonization. However, I do find that it would be far more important to first build an outpost on the moon.

If we want to go far of our system the moon could be the best space airport for interstellar voyages.
The question is why? As somebody already said, a colony on Moon would not be self-sustainable. Even if we had far more advanced technology that would probably still be impossible. Besides, what do we have to gain from making an outpost there? The Moon has nothing that we could use as far as I know. Our best bet would be Mars for now, however who knows how long it will be before we can even reach other potential colonies.
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