Martingale revisited - page 8. | Bitcointalksearch.org

redsun114

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Quote from: deisik on July 30, 2019, 02:34:25 AM

Quote from: redsun114 on July 30, 2019, 02:06:42 AM

Gambling is supposed to be an open source for people to make money not to extort from players but it seems it’s now the other way round and I can clearly say now that this site owner do not have the interest of players at heart. All they care about is their pockets

I'm not really sure that gambling is for people to make money unless we are talking about professional poker players and their likes, or any other games which apart from luck also involve a certain amount of skill. Chance games are about entertainment only, and if you somehow come to think differently, it may cost you dear. Regarding casino owners caring only about their pockets, isn't that as true with respect to casino players who equally don't care about the pockets of casino owners?

If you are after money, gambling is the last thing you should be looking into

Since you are not sure, I think I should make you understand. You don’t have to be a professional before making money in gambling, irrespective of the game or the type of player, everyone deserves to make money no matter how small it maybe because right from when I was small and I knew how we played games, the aim was to make money.

The best is to understand that it is possible to play games without using strategies and yet make money, I feel strategies is really the problem with gambling and again, it is highly important to overcome greed since this is one thing that prevents gamblers from being successful but making money is definitely not restricted to professional gamblers alone.

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Quote from: Haunebu on August 05, 2019, 04:56:18 AM

Quote from: bitgolden on August 04, 2019, 09:37:25 AM

You can imagine that I played a game with $1000 dollars just yesterday and it all went down within few hours on the site, not even a dime left and nothing won back in return. I feel very hurt and am just at the edge of quitting the game.

Invest only what you are willing to lose. Why would you gamble with such a big amount if you were afraid of losing it? Betting small amounts on accumulators regularly would have been more ideal in this case.

Quote from: deisik on August 04, 2019, 09:51:29 AM

As gambling should be considered not a source of income (apart from professional poker players and their likes) but a form of entertainment and amusement only. But we still can't discard those who play rare but always big time. If they lose after a few bets, they leave. If they win, they take the spoil and instantly leave as well

Not just professional poker players though. There are blackjack card counters out there who make a killing even now. There are many other strategies too(Arbitrage betting, taking advantage of a biased roulette wheel etc) which actually give players the edge

In fact, I don't doubt there are a lot of games involving not just luck alone but a certain set of skills as well

As this is what I meant by professional poker players and their likes. I don't know what these likes might be, but I know it for certain that you can beat the odds in some games and activities (like sports betting). This essentially means your result depends not only on luck but also on your skill which you can develop given enough time and practice. Poker just happens to be one of the most familiar and well-known examples of this kind

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Quote from: Indamuck on August 05, 2019, 06:42:35 AM

Quote from: deisik on August 04, 2019, 09:51:29 AM

Quote from: bitgolden on August 04, 2019, 09:37:25 AM

But for now I am still of the opinion that gambling is a game of fun and not a ground for money. If it was for money, majority of us here should be extremely rich by now but all we get is constant loses and this has pushed us to believing that the house edge only favors the site

I mostly agree with your view

As gambling should be considered not a source of income (apart from professional poker players and their likes) but a form of entertainment and amusement only. But we still can't discard those who play rare but always big time. If they lose after a few bets, they leave. If they win, they take the spoil and instantly leave as well

These dudes are the ones that casinos fear the most as their bankroll is comparable to that of the casino (or even exceeding it), while with just a few bets pure luck can easily overcome the house edge, and if it favors the player, the casino may suffer massive losses. These big-timers may be in for the money

Problem is with the advertisements, they make it look like everyone will be a winner and a lot of stupid people believe that. If you go in with realistic expectations and a good understand of probability you won't be setting your self up to be mentally traumatized.

It sounds confusing, then the problem is not on advertisements but the people itself together with their unrealistic fantasies that they could go well, exactly the same with on what they see, but still the reality is such a bad thing, it really goes different on what we expect. So all in all,we end up losing our moneys and much worst our families. And that one example is this martingale thing.

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Martingale is a good strategy if you have large funds to sustain your bets, and if you coupled it with control and right betting strategy, you can win, but it's not 100% guaranty, of course, there is no perfect strategy to bring down the house, just enjoy the game if you are here to bring down the house you are in big trouble.

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Quote from: deisik on August 04, 2019, 09:51:29 AM

Quote from: bitgolden on August 04, 2019, 09:37:25 AM

But for now I am still of the opinion that gambling is a game of fun and not a ground for money. If it was for money, majority of us here should be extremely rich by now but all we get is constant loses and this has pushed us to believing that the house edge only favors the site

I mostly agree with your view

As gambling should be considered not a source of income (apart from professional poker players and their likes) but a form of entertainment and amusement only. But we still can't discard those who play rare but always big time. If they lose after a few bets, they leave. If they win, they take the spoil and instantly leave as well

These dudes are the ones that casinos fear the most as their bankroll is comparable to that of the casino (or even exceeding it), while with just a few bets pure luck can easily overcome the house edge, and if it favors the player, the casino may suffer massive losses. These big-timers may be in for the money

Problem is with the advertisements, they make it look like everyone will be a winner and a lot of stupid people believe that. If you go in with realistic expectations and a good understand of probability you won't be setting your self up to be mentally traumatized.

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Quote from: deisik on August 04, 2019, 09:51:29 AM

As gambling should be considered not a source of income (apart from professional poker players and their likes) but a form of entertainment and amusement only. But we still can't discard those who play rare but always big time. If they lose after a few bets, they leave. If they win, they take the spoil and instantly leave as well

But can we think of gambling like that, I'm sure most people who come to gambling sites have a goal not entertainment but money, they think gambling is their business that they can do easily.

I still agree when I have to consider gambling as entertainment, at that time people will have more psychological calm when playing. When we are psychologically tense when gambling then that's when we only think of money. It's difficult, it's hard to think of gambling as entertainment.

Quote from: Haunebu on August 05, 2019, 04:56:18 AM

Invest only what you are willing to lose. Why would you gamble with such a big amount if you were afraid of losing it? Betting small amounts on accumulators regularly would have been more ideal in this case.

Well, but this is not entirely his fault, because it is difficult for humans to hold back their emotions when experiencing successive losses. They will always catch up even though they have passed what he is able to bet. This is natural and often happens to me when experiencing losses in a row.

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Quote from: deisik on August 04, 2019, 09:51:29 AM

...and if it favors the player, the casino may suffer massive losses. These big-timers may be in for the money

And that's the reason why, on some other countries, casinos are owned by mafias, just to control the flow of money,... If their client wins big enough that is... Just like in the movies, it somewhat happens IRL too you know. I also know somebody who experienced that thing.

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Quote from: bitgolden on August 04, 2019, 09:37:25 AM

You can imagine that I played a game with $1000 dollars just yesterday and it all went down within few hours on the site, not even a dime left and nothing won back in return. I feel very hurt and am just at the edge of quitting the game.

Invest only what you are willing to lose. Why would you gamble with such a big amount if you were afraid of losing it? Betting small amounts on accumulators regularly would have been more ideal in this case.

Quote from: deisik on August 04, 2019, 09:51:29 AM

As gambling should be considered not a source of income (apart from professional poker players and their likes) but a form of entertainment and amusement only. But we still can't discard those who play rare but always big time. If they lose after a few bets, they leave. If they win, they take the spoil and instantly leave as well

Not just professional poker players though. There are blackjack card counters out there who make a killing even now. There are many other strategies too(Arbitrage betting, taking advantage of a biased roulette wheel etc) which actually give players the edge.

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Quote from: bitgolden on August 04, 2019, 09:37:25 AM

But for now I am still of the opinion that gambling is a game of fun and not a ground for money. If it was for money, majority of us here should be extremely rich by now but all we get is constant loses and this has pushed us to believing that the house edge only favors the site

I mostly agree with your view

As gambling should be considered not a source of income (apart from professional poker players and their likes) but a form of entertainment and amusement only. But we still can't discard those who play rare but always big time. If they lose after a few bets, they leave. If they win, they take the spoil and instantly leave as well

These dudes are the ones that casinos fear the most as their bankroll is comparable to that of the casino (or even exceeding it), while with just a few bets pure luck can easily overcome the house edge, and if it favors the player, the casino may suffer massive losses. These big-timers may be in for the money

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Quote from: FanEagle on August 03, 2019, 07:21:56 AM

--snip

Maybe you should share some winning idle you have because you sound so confident and looks like you have made all the money in gambling. What do you think we are not doing right? Please answers to this will really be highly appreciated

But for now I am still of the opinion that gambling is a game of fun and not a ground for money. If it was for money, majority of us here should be extremely rich by now but all we get is constant loses and this has pushed us to believing that the house edge only favors the site. You can imagine that I played a game with $1000 dollars just yesterday and it all went down within few hours on the site, not even a dime left and nothing won back in return. I feel very hurt and am just at the edge of quitting the game.

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Quote from: guoyu78 on July 31, 2019, 11:35:32 AM

If you are into gambling to make money, then I suggest you start thinking of an alternative source of money making because gambling is definitely not one of those. Gone are those days. The gambling I used to know, people made money, maybe because there were no strategies like we use today. These days even with the strategies, it’s so difficult to beat the house edge. I feel the site operators are aware of the efforts of gamblers to going through the back doors, so they made it a little bit more difficult.
Right now, the only way to enjoy gambling is to play for fun and top thinking of making money, let the profit that comes from playing for fun be appreciated and maximized for better games.

Totally unacceptable bro, I think this strategy never worked, so it didn’t start today and I will like to like to correct the idea of playing for fun, I think you can't impose your opinion on other players. Someone like me for instance, I am so determined to make money from gambling and I believe and understand that this is what this game is designed for, the only thing I can then do for myself is to play with care and also watch how I play my games but advising that players accept to only play for fun is what I call am impossible mission.

Not winning games has got nothing to do with the site owners, it is just not doing the right thing. Martingale strategy might not be working but there are definitely others that works, so the idea should be players, going to the extreme to dig out what strategy works for their games.

STT

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Quote from: Haunebu on August 03, 2019, 03:18:01 AM

Instead, these strategies are better suited for sports betting where long losing streaks happen less often as long as you do your research first.

Great point, the odds in sports betting are more unknown and less prone to a regular reproduction of a loss. An irregular bet fits this attempt far better, thats barring an external factor like a team that suffers great disruption and is no longer able to compete within the league. Such large changes in skill levels should be obvious and also reflect in the odds given, where as the roulette wheel will give no such discount to a losing streak and merely continues precisely on the same course.

Casino games are far more about maths and statistical probability anaylsis and I would recommend study of that technique as a means to observe or improve odds available.

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Quote from: deisik on July 25, 2019, 08:41:46 AM

To make things clear right at the start, I know that martingale is a losing strategy in the long term as there is no way to beat the house and its edge if only by chance alone (or by exploiting a bug in the system). And since martingale effectively removes the chance part from the equation, it is set to fail in the end

With that said, though, it is an "old-school" martingale which is a sure way to lose all but what about using martingale when you constantly lower your chances to lose at each red streak by extending the number of losing rolls till you go bust? I don't know if it can actually help but it is certainly worth discussing here

Obviously, it can be done by "reinvesting" everything we earned at previous rolls without changing any other setting (like odds, initial bet amount, increase, etc) but we are not necessarily limited to only that. For example, we could continually add to our balance at each roll, thereby postponing our final moment until it gets lost in the vague future

Does it change anything even if it doesn't make a lot of sense as a strategy on its own?

I have tried that before, sometimes you win sometimes you lose and so much is depends on the funds you have allocated to your betting, of course, there will always long run of winning and long run of losing, if you are going to chase your losses be sure you have enough funds to cover the strategy.

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Quote from: redsun114 on August 02, 2019, 02:47:32 PM

This is one of the reason I no longer feel sympathy for bettors that lose their money in gambling because from my observation, I noticed, they always want to use strategies for every game. Majority of players no longer accept the fun part of gambling and this is really absurd. Well you have said it all, and let them that have ears hear.

Using strategies in gambling is not always a bad thing. Some people have earned good money thanks to these strategies. The problem here is that most people tend to use negative progression strategies like the Martingale in casino games where the odds are in the house's favor making it unfeasible in the long term.

Instead, these strategies are better suited for sports betting where long losing streaks happen less often as long as you do your research first.

redsun114

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Quote from: mich on July 31, 2019, 01:14:06 PM

Quote from: deisik on July 25, 2019, 08:41:46 AM

To make things clear right at the start, I know that martingale is a losing strategy in the long term as there is no way to beat the house and its edge if only by chance alone (or by exploiting a bug in the system). And since martingale effectively removes the chance part from the equation, it is set to fail in the end

With that said, though, it is an "old-school" martingale which is a sure way to lose all but what about using martingale when you constantly lower your chances to lose at each red streak by extending the number of losing rolls till you go bust? I don't know if it can actually help but it is certainly worth discussing here

Obviously, it can be done by "reinvesting" everything we earned at previous rolls without changing any other setting (like odds, initial bet amount, increase, etc) but we are not necessarily limited to only that. For example, we could continually add to our balance at each roll, thereby postponing our final moment until it gets lost in the vague future

Does it change anything even if it doesn't make a lot of sense as a strategy on its own?

Just based on your very first sentence, it sounds like you understand that this method hasnt proven anything other then you will lose money in the long run.
Betting strategies are very common these days and everyone thinks they can get the house edge- truth is its called the HOUSE EDGE for a very good reason
Play for entertainment everyone not to beat the HOUSE EDGE!

I hope you can sit back and go through this sentence again and be sure it is perfect for everyone. You make a lot of sense really but you should know by now that 60% of players will never agree to this. It does not matter the name it is given, let it even be written clearly, you can never win the house edge but gamblers would always believe there is always a way out.

This is one of the reason I no longer feel sympathy for bettors that lose their money in gambling because from my observation, I noticed, they always want to use strategies for every game. Majority of players no longer accept the fun part of gambling and this is really absurd. Well you have said it all, and let them that have ears hear.

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Quote from: mich on July 31, 2019, 01:14:06 PM

Quote from: deisik on July 25, 2019, 08:41:46 AM

To make things clear right at the start, I know that martingale is a losing strategy in the long term as there is no way to beat the house and its edge if only by chance alone (or by exploiting a bug in the system). And since martingale effectively removes the chance part from the equation, it is set to fail in the end

With that said, though, it is an "old-school" martingale which is a sure way to lose all but what about using martingale when you constantly lower your chances to lose at each red streak by extending the number of losing rolls till you go bust? I don't know if it can actually help but it is certainly worth discussing here

Obviously, it can be done by "reinvesting" everything we earned at previous rolls without changing any other setting (like odds, initial bet amount, increase, etc) but we are not necessarily limited to only that. For example, we could continually add to our balance at each roll, thereby postponing our final moment until it gets lost in the vague future

Does it change anything even if it doesn't make a lot of sense as a strategy on its own?

Just based on your very first sentence, it sounds like you understand that this method hasnt proven anything other then you will lose money in the long run

Yeah, but that's the whole point

If the said "long run" is longer than your life (well, longer than you will be rolling dice), does it really matter? Then again, this topic is more of an academic tune, which is to say, it deals more with conceptual matters rather than mundane ones (but still). For example, it is typically accepted as true that an infinite bankroll in the absence of artificial restraints like max bet amount put in place by the casino will beat the house edge through martingale. But even with a bankroll growing fast enough, it is still possible, at least as long as your escape velocity is in the positive (i.e. with each win your death streak becomes longer)

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Quote from: deisik on July 25, 2019, 08:41:46 AM

To make things clear right at the start, I know that martingale is a losing strategy in the long term as there is no way to beat the house and its edge if only by chance alone (or by exploiting a bug in the system). And since martingale effectively removes the chance part from the equation, it is set to fail in the end

With that said, though, it is an "old-school" martingale which is a sure way to lose all but what about using martingale when you constantly lower your chances to lose at each red streak by extending the number of losing rolls till you go bust? I don't know if it can actually help but it is certainly worth discussing here

Obviously, it can be done by "reinvesting" everything we earned at previous rolls without changing any other setting (like odds, initial bet amount, increase, etc) but we are not necessarily limited to only that. For example, we could continually add to our balance at each roll, thereby postponing our final moment until it gets lost in the vague future

Does it change anything even if it doesn't make a lot of sense as a strategy on its own?

Just based on your very first sentence, it sounds like you understand that this method hasnt proven anything other then you will lose money in the long run.
Betting strategies are very common these days and everyone thinks they can get the house edge- truth is its called the HOUSE EDGE for a very good reason
Play for entertainment everyone not to beat the HOUSE EDGE!

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Quote from: justdimin on July 30, 2019, 10:26:46 AM

Quote from: bitgolden on July 29, 2019, 02:15:58 AM

I think aside auto bet, the reason why most gamblers loose using martingale is because of the amount of fund. Honestly, the strategy works but only for very rich gamblers but we find out that even gamblers with barely few stakes would want to use it because they here its good and the next thing we hear of complains like it sucks and all of that.

I haven’t tried this strategy and am not a strategy kind of player. I believe in playing my games freely while depending on luck. I believe we ought to know by now that gambling is a game of luck and it would be better that we accept it that way rather than looking for shortcuts to winning of which we know it would never be possible.

I appreciate that you admitted that you have never tried this strategy and I want to believe you barely know little about it, so it’s understandable. I don’t think this martingale strategy works for anyone, if it does, it’s only for a short term. So it can never be seen like a strategy that works.

Not everyone can play games completely depending on luck especially when a huge amount of money is involved. This is the reason players like me would always be on the search for a strategy, and I believe that definitely there will be one. I have tried martingale, it worked to an extent until I started losing, and that was when I got to understand that the system only works for some time not permanent.

Dont mean to disrupt on what you do believe but there would be no such strategy that do works.Everything is random and as a gambler its somehow been part of the fun on seeking

up some strategies that might work out but on end point those are just spices to add up some thrill with our gambling but people are taking it way too much which forcing it to work and make money until they bust up.

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Quote from: redsun114 on July 30, 2019, 02:06:42 AM

Please have you ever asked this question because this is exactly what is getting me bothered? If the almighty martingale strategy is no longer or never been a winning strategy, then what is? If nothing can beat the odds so why are we gambling? Considering what you mentioned, if we are really to do an estimate, comparing profits to loses, we would realize we have been losing all along. I am really depressed by this discovery.

Gambling is supposed to be an open source for people to make money not to extort from players but it seems it’s now the other way round and I can clearly say now that this site owner do not have the interest of players at heart. All they care about is their pockets.

If you are into gambling to make money, then I suggest you start thinking of an alternative source of money making because gambling is definitely not one of those. Gone are those days. The gambling I used to know, people made money, maybe because there were no strategies like we use today. These days even with the strategies, it’s so difficult to beat the house edge. I feel the site operators are aware of the efforts of gamblers to going through the back doors, so they made it a little bit more difficult.
Right now, the only way to enjoy gambling is to play for fun and top thinking of making money, let the profit that comes from playing for fun be appreciated and maximized for better games.

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Quote from: bitgolden on July 29, 2019, 02:15:58 AM

I think aside auto bet, the reason why most gamblers loose using martingale is because of the amount of fund. Honestly, the strategy works but only for very rich gamblers but we find out that even gamblers with barely few stakes would want to use it because they here its good and the next thing we hear of complains like it sucks and all of that.

I haven’t tried this strategy and am not a strategy kind of player. I believe in playing my games freely while depending on luck. I believe we ought to know by now that gambling is a game of luck and it would be better that we accept it that way rather than looking for shortcuts to winning of which we know it would never be possible.

I appreciate that you admitted that you have never tried this strategy and I want to believe you barely know little about it, so it’s understandable. I don’t think this martingale strategy works for anyone, if it does, it’s only for a short term. So it can never be seen like a strategy that works.

Not everyone can play games completely depending on luck especially when a huge amount of money is involved. This is the reason players like me would always be on the search for a strategy, and I believe that definitely there will be one. I have tried martingale, it worked to an extent until I started losing, and that was when I got to understand that the system only works for some time not permanent.

Topic: Martingale revisited - page 8. (Read 2554 times)