Topic: MEMBERS OF ETHEREUM TO RETURN ETC TO DAO INVESTORS PETITION - page 3. (Read 8026 times)

That could be the reason for the recent ETC price drop, there are more active seller than the buyers now.

The whitehats have moved funds into what looks like the bytecode of a wallet contract on ETC.

http://blocks.elaineou.com/addr/0x1ac729d2db43103faf213cb9371d6b42ea7a830f#tab_addr_3

There is no need to burn your ETC. Sell it to the people who love it and give them the chance to grow it.

Prove it burn your etc.

Well then you are incorrect on both counts as I was a DAO hodler and I don't want both. Never assume or generalise because it makes you look even more tardish. As if that was even possible.

I know your not too bright so it's the original DAO holders. Duh

Who are 'they'?

It's pure greed, they want both. The funds should be destroyed.

Good question.

As I said before and will probably say again, I'm not a lawyer. So, my thinking-as-the-plaintiff's-lawyer is prolly defective in subtle ways.

To gab about the defense side, it occurred to me that there's a two-pronged slam-bang defense that any real lawyer would bring up in the initial interview:

Prong 1: The Good Samaritan defense. The white-hat hacker team had no motive other than to rescue The DAO stakeholders and worked for free during their rescue operation. It's not enough to claim that they did so because they themselves were stakeholders - not as long as they got the exact same aliquot-share reward as someone who occasionally cheered them on at Reddit but otherwise did nothing. In order to impugn this defense, the plaintiff has to prove that they got compensation over and above what they got as DAO stakeholders. To put it bluntly, the plaintiff would have to show that they were either a) paid for the work, which would render the Good-Samaritan part of the defense moot; or b) that they were bribed to do it. Either attempt requires the plaintiff to have evidence; speculation won't do.

Prong 2: "We Haven't Touched The Ethereum Classic Blockchain" defense. This one's intriguing, because a court would have to regard the Ethereum Classic blockchain as a separate entity. If the defense can demonstrate that they haven't touched the Ethereum Classic blockchain, then the plaintiff's job becomes harder. Plaintiff would have to argue that the white-hat-hacker team had an affirmative responsibility to return the Ethereum Classic to the now-Classic-DAO token holders. This could be done, using that corporate-spinoff analogy I riffed on above, but it would have to be done carefully. A judge might well decide that the people who incurred the liability were the dev team behind Ethereum Classic!

In fact, Prong 2 might well suffice on those last grounds.

So a real lawyer for the plaintiff would ask: 1) "Can you prove that the whit-hat hackers received special compensation over and above their share as DAO token holders?" 2) "Can you prove that they messed around with the Ethereum-Classic DAO on or after the time of the hardfork?" If the answer to both is "No," then said lawyer would decline the case.

Or recommend that the plaintiffs sure the devs of Ethereum Classic!

This is very interesting and i have updated the original thread with a link to this reddit post.
I respect Alex Van De Sande for speaking out and giving clarity of the situation( finally).
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I wouldn't call myself part of the Robin Hood Group, not because I’m afraid of legal consequences or ashamed of it, but because I don’t think I’m worthy of that title. The guys who made the DAO counter attack were able to create attack vectors much more sophisticated than the original attacker developed, and created new ways to twist it so that the original attacker couldn’t counterattack. They set up active running scripts that at some point were constantly draining the dao to 1 wei, to capture any ether the attacker sent to the DAO to set up a new attack. I would never be able to do any of this. While I did a small part in helping the original counterattack, I’ve also been told that since the first attack most of the original group splintered and only a few kept pushing forward. I haven’t participated since that day, I don’t control any of the private keys to any relevant addresses, I had recent contact with them, but since the main goal was accomplish I don’t intend to keep contact and I certainly don’t want to be seen as their spokeperson for the next step..
Also, even the small part I did, I acted as an individual, not as part of the Ethereum Foundation. I never told Vitalik about my plans and when Ming, the Executive Director, asked me about it I refused to tell her, so that the Foundation wouldn’t be in any way implicated or active in this.
Last time I spoke to the White Hat Group about the status they had told me the attacker was able to run off with a big part of the funds and while they had recently won some battles, the funds were far from secure as they were still aware of possible attacks – which is why I didn’t want to make any public comment on that matter, otherwise the attention could jeopardize this whole thing. IMHO part of the reason they were more successful now was because the DAO had less value and was under a lot less scrutiny since the fork, I doubt such attack would be successful had the fork not taken place.
Before you guys talk about what they are going to do with the funds, notice that this group had absolutely no obligation to keep doing what they were doing, yet kept doing it anyway. They worked hard for the fork to happen because they wanted all the DAO investors to be made whole – and they accomplished that – but then the Ethereum Classic community made its central tenet that such a solution was morally wrong and we were all corrupt for doing it. The blackhat hacker tried their best to ruin any chance of counterattack, negotiation or ceasefire) yet I’ve seen posts in this community comparing them to Satoshi Nakamoto. These guys have done what no one else was willing or capable to do, yet they are constantly harassed and whenever I read a question about the White Hat Group’s ETC funds, the first answers usually mention lawsuits or assume malice on their part. I wonder how many DAO token holders today are even the same people who believed the original vision and participated on the launch and how many tokens are currently held simply by people who wanted to buy them for a chance of an arbitrage opportunity. Now, of course, this doesn’t represent the full community, I’ve been in contact with people from the Classic mod team that are trying to change the tone, but my recent experiences on this community haven't helped to change my opinion on it.
To make it completely clear, while I appreciate the irony that the same people who claimed the Dark attacker was the rightful owner because “code is law” are asking the opposite of the white hat attackers, I don’t endorse this idea: my understanding has always been that they would do their best to give the money back to the community, otherwise they would be no better than the black hat.
I do not know what they intend to do now and I learned that the recovery was successful via reddit like everyone else. While I believe they have the best intentions they are also at risk for a lot of legal troubles and costs. On a personal note I’ve lended them DAO tokens for the attack, which I haven’t seen since. I’ll be asking them for the eth-dao to be returned, but I’m donating the etc-dao to them.
My main point is this, they could have washed their hands of all this the day of the fork and let it all be taken by the thieves you applauded. If anything is ever recovered it’s all due to the tireless work of these people. So instead of constantly debating how much the white hats owe you, ask yourself how much you owe the white hats.
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My thoughts on the sentence highlighted in red

They deserve a carrot only IF they return the funds - NOT 18 Million dollars of DAO holders ETC.

though i dont think that dao users will report it to the police, i think that nothing will happen, though i hope that etc is going to grow pretty huge

Alex Van de Sande speaks out on the white hats funds.

Hopefully this draws a line under these rather distasteful demands of the ETC criminal coin supporters:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EthereumClassic/comments/4wnn3k/alex_van_de_sande_uavsa_and_the_rest_of_the_robin/d68wfen

That is right. The ETC should be worthless any more. So the hackers will not get a penny. But somebody want the hacker to be rich.

Erm... Who is the noob here?? Did you see the ranking before posting that or are you so full of hopes of free money that you insult anything that comes your way?

You must be joking?

Another noob who doesn't get it.

why don't you actually read some  of the posts here such as by OP , Smargada & Nxtblg.

If you want your DAO money back, go to ETH, not ETC

Someone above mentioned, he (white hat hacker) is a member of dev team. It's seems that at least he is affiliated with foundation. Anyway, in my opinion foundation should lawyered up. Because, in the case of legal action, it's not matter what you think, it's matter what you can proof in the court of law.