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Topic: MemoryDealers aka Roger Ver Arrested! - page 5. (Read 1762 times)

copper member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1901
Amazon Prime Member #7
I'm curious about how the statute of limitations will apply. Much of the indictment refers to alleged crimes happening many years ago.
It appears the statute of limitations for tax fraud is 6 years.

nope.. its much longer
https://wiggamlaw.com/blog/irs-10-year-back-taxes-statute-of-limitations/
Quote
Can the IRS Take More Than 10 Years to Collect Tax Debts?

In some cases, the IRS can take more than 10 years to collect tax debts. This happens when an event causes the clock to stop ticking on the statute of limitations and the deadline gets extended.
This is called tolling the statute of limitations.

To give you an example, imagine that you have five years left until the statute of limitations expires. Then, you take an action that pauses the clock for two months. At the end of those two months, you still have five years left on the statute of limitations. If the clock had not stopped, you would only have four years and 10 months left.
Tolling the Statute of Limitations

Here are actions that toll the collection statute:

    Applying for an offer in compromise — This tolls the statute from the day you apply to the 30 days after the IRS rejects the offer.
    Requesting an installment agreement — When you apply for a payment plan, the statute is tolled while your application is pending.
    Filing an innocent spouse claim — The statute tolls on the day you apply, and then it restarts at a range of different times depending on the situation. It only tolls the statute for the spouse who applies. It doesn’t affect the CSED for the other spouse.
    Filing bankruptcy — This tolls the statute during the bankruptcy case and for six months afterward.
    Filing a Taxpayer Assistance Order — The statute is tolled from the day you file the assistance order until the Taxpayer Advocate issues a decision on your request.
    Appealing a collection action through a collection due process hearing — The clock stops from the time you appeal until 90 days after you receive a decision from appeals.

    Leaving the country for six or more months in a row — In this case, the statute does not expire until at least six months after you get back to the United States.

in short being an expat in another country means the clock stops when you left. but when you return they can start the clock again. so even if you left the country in 2014 and returned in say 2022.. the deadline of a 2014 case only starts its first year in 2022

That article is referring to collecting back taxes, a civil matter. I was referring to the criminal prosecution for tax fraud.
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
I'm curious about how the statute of limitations will apply. Much of the indictment refers to alleged crimes happening many years ago.
It appears the statute of limitations for tax fraud is 6 years.

nope.. its much longer
https://wiggamlaw.com/blog/irs-10-year-back-taxes-statute-of-limitations/
Quote
Can the IRS Take More Than 10 Years to Collect Tax Debts?

In some cases, the IRS can take more than 10 years to collect tax debts. This happens when an event causes the clock to stop ticking on the statute of limitations and the deadline gets extended.
This is called tolling the statute of limitations.

To give you an example, imagine that you have five years left until the statute of limitations expires. Then, you take an action that pauses the clock for two months. At the end of those two months, you still have five years left on the statute of limitations. If the clock had not stopped, you would only have four years and 10 months left.
Tolling the Statute of Limitations

Here are actions that toll the collection statute:

   Applying for an offer in compromise — This tolls the statute from the day you apply to the 30 days after the IRS rejects the offer.
    Requesting an installment agreement — When you apply for a payment plan, the statute is tolled while your application is pending.
    Filing an innocent spouse claim — The statute tolls on the day you apply, and then it restarts at a range of different times depending on the situation. It only tolls the statute for the spouse who applies. It doesn’t affect the CSED for the other spouse.
    Filing bankruptcy — This tolls the statute during the bankruptcy case and for six months afterward.
    Filing a Taxpayer Assistance Order — The statute is tolled from the day you file the assistance order until the Taxpayer Advocate issues a decision on your request.
    Appealing a collection action through a collection due process hearing — The clock stops from the time you appeal until 90 days after you receive a decision from appeals.

   Leaving the country for six or more months in a row — In this case, the statute does not expire until at least six months after you get back to the United States.

in short being an expat in another country means the clock stops after 6 months when you left. but when you return they can start the clock again after 6 months of arriving. so even if you left the country in 2014 and returned in say 2022.. the deadline of a 2014 case only starts its first year in 2023

also if you stay out the country for 10-20-50 years. then returned. the clock doesnt go away due to length of time away. it just starts ticking again when you return for more then 6 months even after [insert any time away]
legendary
Activity: 4046
Merit: 1389
Here's the real reason why they are after Ver. Go to the site and look at the list of things RV did.

Watch this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gREaPClHWqg.


Crypto veterans call out DOJ for targeting Roger Ver a decade after he left US



https://cointelegraph.com/news/crypto-veterans-call-out-doj-targeting-roger-ver
Many members of the crypto community criticized the U.S. government for its indictment against Ver, with some calling it part of the broader anti-crypto stance of the Biden administration.

The arrest of early Bitcoin investor and Bitcoin cash proponent Roger Ver on tax evasion charges in the United States has invoked strong reactions from the crypto community.

Many within the community criticized the arrest, with some justifying it over Ver's adoption of an anti-Bitcoin stance in the latter part of his career.

Dan Held, a long-term Bitcoin proponent, was among the few who lauded Ver's arrest, saying, "he's been a net negative for Bitcoin."

Crypto-centered X account Pledditor suspected that Ver's arrest is related to his name popping up in several investigations, such as those involving Binance, Genesis and Three Arrows Capital.

Go to the website for this picture.

Kim Dotcom, a crypto veteran who has also been on the receiving end of government enforcement, said that the indictment against Ver has nothing to do with tax evasion but rather a “witch hunt against a man who turned his back on U.S. wars and malicious foreign and domestic policy.” He added: “Roger is a supporter of Julian Assange and press freedom not just with words but with actions.”
...



Cool
copper member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1901
Amazon Prime Member #7
I'm curious about how the statute of limitations will apply. Much of the indictment refers to alleged crimes happening many years ago.
It appears the statute of limitations for tax fraud is 6 years. I haven't read the indictment, but it is strange they are charging him this long after the alleged crimes.
 
edit to add:
I just read the indictment, and it seems like the statute of limitations has expired for many of the crimes alleged in the indictment. I am not sure how the government got around this, (maybe a covid exception?). According to the indictment, Ver needed to file various tax forms (and use the mail to do so) years after he renounced his citizenship.


I read the full indictment, and it looks pretty bad. The thing where he allegedly decided in 2016 to file a 2011 gift tax return saying that he had gifted bitcoins to his partner stood out as especially bad to me.
I think that portion of the indictment raises an interesting question of "how exactly can you legally transfer ownership of coin to another person?"

From a technical standpoint, this is easy, you simply publish a transaction that gets confirmed.

From a legal standpoint, this is more complicated. Most centralized exchanges will update a database/create a business record that reflects the updated ownership.

(I wonder: why are they allowed to use quotes from emails between Ver and his lawyer?)
Attorney-client privilege only covers legal advice. A discussion with your lawyer about a baseball game is not protected by attorney-client privilege.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1296
Playbet.io - Crypto Casino and Sportsbook
U.S. decided to empty all the “fat wallets” with bitcoin? They should have publicly stated “thank you guys for pumping up bitcoin and now we will take on this asset ourselves”, when the whole world believed in this cryptocurrency and billions of capital were poured in. The right time to get your hands on this is when BTC has gained value. It sounds slightly absurd, but it seems to me that independent individual large BTC-holders (like Roger Ver) will be forced to part with (at least part of) their savings, because it is easy to influence (find and force) such people, and the reward will be impressive.

It's funny that yesterday the state pretended that bitcoin was a candy wrapper, but today they arrest you for it.
legendary
Activity: 2814
Merit: 1192
...
Then the part where he changed citizenship and was required to pay exit tax - like WTF? The country bullies you, you decide you don't want to live there anymore, so they want you to pay them for leaving? What kind of law is that? I'm sure many people aren't even aware of such rule.
...
FYI: The US 'exit tax' has been in effect since 2008 and folks in the USA with money have always been well aware of it. Ver obviously was and paid what he thought would be enough to throw the IRS off his scent. Problem is -- he apparently took it further and lied about his companies BTC holdings while extracting a sizeable portion of it for himself.

Yup, Ver is obviously guilty, but I'm amazed how ridiculous some of these laws are. Maybe he is guilty of omission, maybe he had too many bitcoins to manage and could not remember about every single one.
Maybe by the time he had to sell it, he thought he was already a citizen of another country so he doesn't have to pay taxes in a country he doesn't live in, which to me would be obvious.
I lived in a few countries in my life, traveled a bit and stupid laws and government oppression always make the rebel in me scream. I wouldn't put someone in prison for hiding his bitcoin, that's for sure, especially that bitcoin wasn't treated as money and was largely ignored and treated like fool's gold back in 2013 and 2014 when he was leaving the US.
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442
I have massive respect for the man Roger. I have read his history and the excellent job he did with bitcoin in its early days. However, as far as I know, no one is above the law and it must be respected. And from what theymos has written about him, he seem like a great guy who kinda lost his way. I think he may have made a lot of mistakes and burnt a lot of bridges in his pursuits which did not align with BTC. We seeing cyberpunk fiction beginning to play out just like in an idealist novel.

He didn't murder anybody though. Somehow tax-evasion is in a gray area for me. Since the gov uses that tax money in a very stupid way most of the time, I too don't like paying taxes. On the top of that, they print money which is another tax. If they are collecting taxes, why are they printing money? If they are printing money why are they collecting taxes? This shit is so broken.

I expected Roger to be more clever than that. He owns a company, his net worth is millions of dollars and he is getting arrested for not being careful. He could have avoided that situation easily. What a way to go. He probably didn't do any of these willingly unlike McAfee.

But then, this guy was selling firecrackers on ebay and did time for that too. Again I believe he did that because he honestly thought it wasn't illegal. This dude needs to get a reality check every once in a while.

Maybe it was this state of distorted mind  of his allowed him to be a early bitcoin adopter. He imagined the shit most people couldn't 13 years ago but that had its own drawbacks. Sometimes his imagination is too skewed for the real world like we have seen it with his bcash.
legendary
Activity: 3220
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www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
The US authorities have detained both Samourai developers and Roger Ver within a single week.  Some might see this as mere coincidence, but I believe it sends a clear message.  The state is officially declaring a war on cryptocurrencies.  Expect further arrests in the future. 

The DoJ has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us. 

It's not surprising to see a country like the US taking a strong approach against crypto industry players. Especially when it knows crypto can be used to circumvent sanctions among other things. This is just the beginning of a long battle between crypto and the "deep state". I was shocked to read about Roger Ver being arrested for tax evasion.

If that's the case, I wonder who will be the next victim? Vitalik Buterin, perhaps? With SEC chairman Gary Gensler classifying ETH as a security, Vitalik could be charged by selling unregistered securities. Also he could be charged against money laundering and tax evasion by creating a platform that enables "decentralized" mixers. These are crazy times we're living into. I sure hope things will get better in the US after the 2024 elections. Anything's possible, right? Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 588
Merit: 273
I have massive respect for the man Roger. I have read his history and the excellent job he did with bitcoin in its early days. However, as far as I know, no one is above the law and it must be respected. And from what theymos has written about him, he seem like a great guy who kinda lost his way. I think he may have made a lot of mistakes and burnt a lot of bridges in his pursuits which did not align with BTC. We seeing cyberpunk fiction beginning to play out just like in an idealist novel.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 5637
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And what is the real lesson of this story? If you owe money to the IRS don't go to Spain because they have become specialized in US citizens on the run from the law Roll Eyes



~snip~
Hopefully he won't pull a McAfee on himself.


That possibility always exists, they say that Spanish prisons have a very bad effect on US citizens when they think about returning to their homeland.



Besides, why does anyone call Roger Bitcoin Jesus when he got a new nickname a long time ago?

member
Activity: 28
Merit: 37
I ONLY deposited Monero and I never had a single issue with them.

The problem occurred when people were trying to withdraw Monero, they used many excuses as to why they stopped withdrawals - the funniest one was "Network congestion" - when there was no network congestion and anyone with a half-brain knew they lied.

Someone from Monero community even made a tracking graph of the withdrawals being stopped, it's hilarious.

Binance = Scam, no one will change my mind about this because they were caught numerous times selling paper-coins (coins they don't have) and lying about issues when people were trying to withdraw and they didn't have the coins.

I really don't know how people can trust them when they were caught lying, they were caught lying to customers and to authorities.
Even if you never had problems with them, just know they lie to customers and that's a big red flag for me.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Eh indifferent about Ver, yes he shilled BCH but honestly if Ver wasn't behind BCH it could of actually being a success partner to BTC... With that said, if his broken the law then he deserves whats coming for him!
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1873
Crypto Swap Exchange
Why would you support CZ, a criminal ? his exchange is known to sell paper-coins, manipulate prices and freezing random accounts for no reason.
I am no big fan of Centralized Exchanges, but they are much more straight forward for a Newbie than a Decentralized Exchange and it shows.  Look how many people have an account on Binance versus the liquidity of a Decentralized Exchange.  It is an awful difference.

Binance was awesome a few years ago for new people.  They gave the Newbies enough time to get accustomed to the Markets and move on to Decentralized Exchanges since there was no Know Your Customer obligation.  On my own account, I ONLY deposited Monero and I never had a single issue with them.  I heard stories of people who deposited Mixer funds and had a problem, but Monero funds were not questioned.  Not in my case at least, and I deposited a lot of it.

I do not know about the other accusations you make.  At one point, it was TradeOgre, Binance and a few other Instant Exchanges leading the Centralized Exchanges top choices of Bitcoin Talk users for a good reason.  What happened recently with Binance obliging every body to doing Know Your Customer and all the other crap, I do not know.  Once they announced this I decided to move on permanently from the subject so I am unaware of later events.  But coincidence or not, they decided to turn 'more friendly to the Governments' pretty close to the point they were accused and sentenced.  So maybe the choice to enforce Know Your Customer was to save their own butts from the missiles coming.  I have no idea.

Anyway.  My point was.  Binance was not bad at all until they started to align with all the other Centralized Exchanges and enforced Know Your Customer.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114
The US authorities have detained both Samourai developers and Roger Ver within a single week.  Some might see this as mere coincidence, but I believe it sends a clear message.  The state is officially declaring a war on cryptocurrencies.  Expect further arrests in the future.  

The DoJ has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us.  

Nope, his arrest has nothing to do with the state of bitcoin whatsoever. It has to do with him thinking he could avoid corporation tax by obtaining income in denominations of bitcoin.

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/04/30/roger-ver-indicted-for-tax-fraud/
We live in a clown world where you can be a citizen of another country and the US can get you arrested and extradited there. They can also imprison you for alleged crimes committed against its monetary policy which is another joke of a law.

If they have some kind of extradition policy/treaty in place, which means its a 2-way street. America would send a wanted Spaniard back to Spain if they were asked politely.

There clearly is a DoJ-wide mandate to target crypto

Is Ver really an influential/credible figure in the world of crypto anymore, though? I'd argue not.

He's a free-thinker and a freedom-lover, somebody who recognizes that something is terribly wrong with the world, and wants to do something about it.

I personally don't think Bitcoin Cash helped the world in any way, but kudos to you for looking for the positives.
member
Activity: 28
Merit: 37
I think you are mistaken about CZ and Binance.

I know him and his business too well. Avoid.
legendary
Activity: 3500
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As the saying goes there are 2 things you can't avoid Death & Taxes.

Creative accounting only goes so far, and if the amounts reported are accurate then yes you are going to get yourself arrested. Probably more so since he was changing his citizenship to a country known for loose tax laws and no extradition for a lot of things. Had he been staying in the US they probably would have just started freezing accounts. But this was looking like he was going to run.

If I sell anything for a profit the government gets it's cut. If it's $200 and I don't pay my $50 on it they will probably never notice. $200 million, yeah they are going to catch that.

-Dave
legendary
Activity: 2352
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bitcoindata.science
CZ was way better than all these shameless beings if I have to support anyone in this crypto space it will be CZ and CZ only, do not compare CZ to Roger Very.

Why would you support CZ, a criminal ? his exchange is known to sell paper-coins, manipulate prices and freezing random accounts for no reason.

I am surprised this whole Binance scam is still going. CEX are cryptocurrency cancer that needs to go away and be replaced by DEX.

I think you are mistaken about CZ and Binance.

Binance wasn't always this empire. It was a veery good exchange which didn't require any kyc to withdrawal up to 2 btc per day until late 2021.
He didn't scam anyone like FTX. He also created a coin which has some value, BNB. Better than bch

Well  CZ never run away with people's money, and is now guilt of money laundry. very different from other known scammers.
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442
Holy crap. I've just heard the news. He already did time for selling firecrackers(!) and now they are getting him for tax evasion. He is really going full Al-Capone. Even though he is a jerk, somehow I feel bad for this guy. Maybe because in his early crypto days he was a hardcore bitcoiner. Even Andreas thanked him in his book which means he used to be doing something right. It all went down the hill the moment he became a bcash supporter. He could have become a rockstar of crypto if he had played his cards right.

Hopefully he won't pull a McAfee on himself.

Then the part where he changed citizenship and was required to pay exit tax - like WTF? The country bullies you, you decide you don't want to live there anymore, so they want you to pay them for leaving? What kind of law is that? I'm sure many people aren't even aware of such rule.

I've heard that before. That's real. The US is beyond fucked up. You can't toss away your US citizenship unless you pay a fee and have their approval. Insane.
member
Activity: 28
Merit: 37
CZ was way better than all these shameless beings if I have to support anyone in this crypto space it will be CZ and CZ only, do not compare CZ to Roger Very.

Why would you support CZ, a criminal ? his exchange is known to sell paper-coins, manipulate prices and freezing random accounts for no reason.

I am surprised this whole Binance scam is still going. CEX are cryptocurrency cancer that needs to go away and be replaced by DEX.

Next arrest we need is the Tether printer owners, whole cryptocurrency market will go down for a while but at least we will have true valuation and not the inflated one.
sr. member
Activity: 938
Merit: 334
DGbet.fun - Crypto Sportsbook
What respect is there to have for someone who is so shameless?

This man used all his time on this forum to confuse newbies into buying BCH as the real Bitcoin, and his forum account was bombard with red trust, I believe this revealed the type of a person he his, sorry to say a cunt.

For someone like him I would rather not go near BCH at all, I don't feel the need to feel sorry for someone who is hellbent on confusing people that BCH is the real Bitcoin, he messed up for real, it is surprising that he still post on this forum.

CZ was way better than all these shameless beings if I have to support anyone in this crypto space it will be CZ and CZ only, do not compare CZ to Roger Very.
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