Topic: Merit & new rank requirements - page 27. (Read 167726 times)

There seems to be 2 schools of thought regarding this.

One is what you're saying, and indeed I would rather give a merit to someone who is still trying to rank up than a Legendary. However, I do give out more merits to Legendaries than I should, simply because I tend to interact with them more, as the crowd I roll with.

The other is that Legendaries get more merits than they should simply because they are Legendaries... As I type that I realize it doesn't make much sense, but that's what some people truly believe.

For me, I was on a mission to prove to myself that I could become a "self-made Legendary," and then it happened just yesterday, 1.5 years after the introduction of the merit system. It took me less time to become a self-made Legendary than it did a Legendary.

Anyway, I don't comment in this thread much, and I don't remember how I got here, but I'm sending you a merit for your post.

Instead of wasting your time debating on legendary users with or without merit, why not forcus that energy into building your account? Get off meta explore other boards out there. There are enough merit to rank up whoever whats to rank up out there, work for it and you recieved them. Irrespective of how the old system worked, you don't deprived users a privilege they have recieved just because you feel the system isn't fair to you. They earned their spot as early users of forum and possibly early bitcoin adopters. Not recieving merit doesn't general mean you're an unproductive user of the forum.

On a general note, these guys (legendary users) are presume to not need merit just because they have achieved the highest rank possible, merit can get them. Therefore must of their quality contributions goes unrewarded which shouldn't be so. Give them a break.

You started out by responding to my above post with a suggestion that the substance of my post was motivated by bias, and perhaps that is part of the reason that I am starting out my earlier post by telling you to get the fuck out of here.



There is substance in logic in my earlier post in which I was criticizing any superficial generalization that are asserting that members who earned their ranks under the previous system were not deserving.  I suggested that such generalization were not fair without specific evidence about the members behavior or something more specific than just asserting some kind of suggestion that it was not fair to rank up under the previous system because it was easier and did not require obtaining merits.


We don't have an old merit system.  We just have a new merit system that was implemented on January 24, 2018.  Before that date, there was no merit system.

So, I am a bit confused about your reference to an "old merit system" and what you are attempting to contrast or criticize, exactly with such assertion that paternalism exists.

There is a concept of grandfather clause which applies when a new system is developed but you allow members to keep their benefits of status that was earned under the old system.  I am not sure if that is what you are meaning when you say paternalism, because grandfather clause is a system of fairness and paternalism suggest nepotism, which is a different kind of situation that I doubt is happening in this forum, at least not to any kind of sense that is close to your superficial reference, unless you would like to explain what you mean, a bit better?



I was just attempting to respond to your assertion that was baloney suggesting that I was biased.. so I am not sure if I was employing any fallacies in my attempted rebuttal and denial of your baloney, as you would like to suggest.



I responded.  Seems to have been an accomplishment by responding.  Of course, you disagree, so maybe we don't need to pursue it any further.

You seem quite the self-appointed expert on various kinds of employed logic, or lack thereof.  Congrats.


Might be good for you to cut because you did not seem to have a lot to say, anyhow in terms of the initial points that I had made in my first post in this back and forth.

Okay, nice wait to start with "get the fuck out of here". I'm not trying to find anything, that's where you seem to be confused. I have no idea what you are referring to when you say "substance and logic" without providing either.

Yes, I am aware of the old merit system, paternalism at it's finest.

Never said anything about not deserving a rank, nor starting over. "you are both envious and unable to accept prior historical rules", how many fallacies can we rack up here? Classic Ad hominem.

So what exactly did you accomplish here besides ranting and blindly spewing insults? Nothing, so I suggest you try again and provide some substance.



Again, you are appealing to emotion. Not going to even start on this one.

The rest of your post consists of more circular reasoning and agreements which aren't really relevant here. Deciding to cut the post here.

This doesn't even make any sense?

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What exactly does "works perfectly" even mean?

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Again, this doesn't make any sense to me. You just restate the same circular reasoning you used above, what is even your point here?

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You are literally just restating my quotes at this point... Again, what point are you trying to make besides pointing out the obvious?

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This actually made me laugh out loud at how little effort you put into your response, you are no better than those yobit spammers.

Even if they have earned 10 or 20 merits, it does not make sense too because they likely abused merit system. The point is, if old Legendary members have not earned a single merit over the last 120 days (the most of nowadays campaigns ask for), they are most likely luckily shit posters ranked up to that rank.

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It is just a simple way to describe potential shit posters, and is not completely correct.

A deserved user is a deserved one, no matter which rank is. A non-deserved legendary is a shit user, that built up shit reputation from shit posts.
Merit system works perfectly so far, and nearly completely prevent spammers to rank up. They all run out of their sMerits after their past waves of merit abusements, and after the ban wave, there are very less available sMerits from abusers.
A legitimate user does not equal to a good user. Why a legitimate user should rank up if continuous make non-sense, low quality posts? Making non-sense posts is nearly the same spam posts. Posts that are just a little bit longer does not equal to higher quality, and more constructive.
Once upon a time, old generations of forum users can rank up from their shit posts, but those shit high-ranked users by now don't have opportunities to get slots in good campaigns. They are less competitive (due to their post quality, their merit history) than self-made generations whom rank up from their contributions and their earned merits. This is why you can easily see the truth that majority of applicants and participants in Yobit campaign are old generation users. It's the fact.
IMO, there is no reason to be jealous with old generations, especially shitposters, instead you should focus on your journey, your contributions, to build up your name, and reputation in the forum. Then, you will become a better user than them, and forum community will do realise who you are.

Note:
I am out of the endless discussion, because merit system will be here, will work as we have all seen, there is no need to discuss about merit system and request to lessen rank requirements.

Get the fuck out of here.

You are trying to find bias in a post that is based on substance and logic.

Do you actually understand that there was a system, less than 2 years ago, that allowed members to rank up based on activity, which is partly a product of post count and time?

Do you believe that those members who ranked up during that time and under those rules don't deserve their rank?  If anyone is biased, it is you, and you are both envious and unable to accept prior historical rules that were different but carry on into the present.  Instead, what the fuck do you want?  You want to start over?  That would make even less sense.



You are pointing out nonsense because of your own inner and seemingly unjustified resentment about history.


Partly true, but mostly only for spammers and account farmers, but a side-effect of that causes more difficulties for almost everyone to rank up.

But if you ranked up before the introduction of the merit system, then that was a windfall rather than a fact that those members did not deserve it.  They did deserve it, because they did whatever the rules were at that time in order to achieve their rank.


Great... at least you seem to understand that part of it.


That's correct.  Probably very few members either knew that the system was going to be implemented, even though I saw that there were some threads about the topic, so there may have been a decently small minority of members who suspected that some kind of change  was going to go into effect.  Personally, I did not have any kind of suspicion or anything regarding anything in the works in that direction until it actually went into effect.



Not completely different, but at least you seem to be kind of accepting the reality of the matter... Great.


I was responding to the discussion of other members, and you are never going to eliminate complaining or even bad feelings from a certain number of members regarding any change that might happen, whether the change is justified or not.


Surely, it is harder because it adds another factor, and I would even concede that it takes a decent amount of efforts to earn any merits at all, including currently 1,000 merits to reach legendary, but even earning smaller amounts of merits might take a considerable amount of efforts, and even strong efforts and substantively great posts, might not result in the receipt of merits.


Perhaps, some of the members have such an issue, like you suggest.  At the same time, I will concede that there are a lot of older members who may have merely averaged mediocre posts that averaged about 1 post per day, and ranked up with hardly making any efforts at all, but don't we already concede that was another system, water under the bridge, spilled milk, etc.. so in the end, it is a part of something that existed in the past and ramifications of some of it follow into the present.  Surely there are some members, currently who thrive under the current system, but I will concede that those members tend to be some what exceptional in finding an approach that works for them.

Maybe a bit of a bias here: of course you think you deserve your rank, considering you are a legendary user. I'm not saying that point of view is wrong, just pointing it out. Let's be real here: the new merit system was implemented to make it harder to progress. The original idea was to prevent spammers, etc. but it made it harder to legitimate users as well. It's not like older members had a choice in this new system, nor did they know it was going to be implemented. They earned their rank under the old system, which may have been less difficult but they still did. There is really no point in comparing the past to the present, as it's a completely different situation. There is really no point in being upset about this, as it's just complaining at this point. The new system is harder, but it's still doable if you put in the effort. The reason a lot of us are stuck is because we spend to much time lamenting the "older members", while we could be contributing to the forum.

I doubt that it is fair to lump all Legendaries together, and there seems to be a bit of a disgruntlement over legendaries having had already earned such status on the basis of the previous system.  I say so fucking what?   Yeah, there may be some legendaries who don't earn merits after the new merit system, but we have to consider their particulars too, if we are going to suggest that they are "good for nothings," merely because no one has subsequently sent them any merits.

I understand that there is a bit of desire to consider received merits as a separate status as compared with air dropped merits, so all good and well with that, but frequently there is way too much emphasis given towards the meaning of the receipt of a lot of merits.... or maybe even too much attempt to denigrate some members who already ranked up under the old system, so they may give two fucks about earning any more merits (and they have a right to take that position, if that is how they feel about it).

I understand that we are probably going to have days in the future (and there might already be a bit of this going on) in which more and more formal systems are implemented in order to incentivize members to continue to chase the merit rabbit (in a kind of rat race)(I know that I am mixing metaphors), but we already appreciate that, part of the more central goals regarding the implementation of the merit system was to lessen the ease of account farming and disincentives spamming and profiting from shit posting.  I doubt that the incentive would be so strong as to discourage the sharing of dissenting opinions or even the ability for unpopular members to contribute in their own continuing to wannabe unpopular ways.  There can be value in that too, and there can be value in accepting that members who ranked up to whatever level of the old system still have legitimately earned their rank(s) because the then system for ranking up was different.. but still the legacies of such system is till ingrained and a part of our current forum, and it does not necessarily feel right to diss on forum members who have earned their rank under the old system, unless for some reason you might have cause to see that there are problems with their historical posts or their current posting behaviors.

It's such a disgrace if that Legendary still doesn't have single merit since the implementation of the merit system. Do they manage to earn a lot of money by just doing nothing? They didn't say anything special that will catch the attention of a user to give him/her merit?
I hope there's no existing legendary that still doesn't have any single merit.

There are some old features disabled by admin in order to save forum's capacity/ bandwidth. Highlighted colors for donators, for example. Additionally, animated avatars disabled months ago, too. Due to this, i don't think admin will integrate other kind of effects that might create new kind of annoyance, and consume forum bandwidth.
Merit button has lots of sense because it only displayed if you earn at least one merit, and it prevent spammers to rank up.

Agree. A newbie with one earned merit is more worthy than a legendary without one earned merit. Knowledgeable users do not equal to constructive users. With merit system and new rank requirements, total merits you earn, and your rank disclose your quality and your past contribution in the forum.
Nope. Merit sources are around, and merits are abundantly for good posts. They will find good posts and good posters, no matter which users make it.

Not really because having buttons such as: Like, Dislike, Crying, Fantastic, etc. would be like having something in form of Smileys... We aren't discussing about smileys over here...

Dislike & other buttons are not required because if you didn't liked the contribution of a user or if you have a different opinion over it then you should put that in form of a Reply with a detailed explanation instead.. that is why we have a forum, right?

We already have enough of smileys on our default Text Editor in SMF... so we don't need to have a button to express every emotion...

If you feel that a Thank You button doesn't make any sense then even the Merit Button makes no sense according to me, they both are similar in some way... they both are intended to reward the user for a Quality Post...

It's just like a Premium Subscription vs a FREE Subscription...
There are certain limits between them...

Send Merit = For members that hold a rank and has some Send Merits with them
Thank You button = For every user who are still struggling to achieve their First Merit / Rank and wish to Thank the user for a wonderful post..

If i was a Newbie with 0 Send Merit and if i notice a post that's worth a merit, i am not going to send PM randomly to Merit Source users and share that link of a constructive post and ask them to reward with a Merit on my behalf, if they find the post worth...
If i have to appreciate a post then i should do it myself with the available resources (i.e. Thank You button or similar) that i have within my account privilege...

In a forum every member is important regardless of the Rank they hold or the amount of Merits they have achieved throughout these years with their quality post...

After-all, a Merit or a Rank is just something added to your profile in addition to what you really are. It doesn't mean a higher rank user has more knowledge than a lower rank user or vice versa..

Everyone's got some talent and they express their Skills/Knowledge in form of a quality post in the desired Thread/Post...

If you have good skillet at Mining then the other user might be good at something else...
It differs from user to user..

With the Merit System, the Newbie Users will have to contribute a quality post and wait till they get at-least 2 Merit before they can send 1 Merit to anyone else...
They may end-up with 100 post or so and still may not receive a single Merit because their post went unoticed although they are good..

On the other side, a quality post diffs from user to user...for you that post may mean average but for another user it might be a life saver for him...
So if a Merit Source checked the post and he felt like this post doesn't make much sense to me you might never reward with a Merit...

The idea of having a "Thank You / Liked" button was to give a fair chance to every Users to express their Feedback to a Post instead of spamming the threads with a one liner as short as "Thank you"

Also this is nothing something new, there are certain forum that have this system implemented... there is nothing bad if we include this here... it won't make the forum look funny like you said... that's a weird thinking that you feel that adding such a feature can make a forum look funny... lol... Never mind..

Just imagine a scenario, you are a User on any forum and you keep contributing to the forum with all the knowledge that you have in form of post.. what if no-one gives a damm about your contribution?

Would you still help others by spending your valuable time on any forum?
After-all we all have personal life and professional life... we also have students over here.... they visit this website during their free time to contribute something and to grab some knowledge or for Buying/Selling purpose...

After-all, you are not getting paid for replying to a Thread/Post, as that is not what a forum is all about... but we are sharing our Views/Knowledge over here and helping each other...

When they dedicate their valuable time from their life to the forum, the least they expect in return is a form of appreciation...

But again, we can't have a "Thank You" message flooded across all our thread which would make it a big mess and time consuming task for a moderator to clean the site...

So it's better to dedicate a button to get that job done... if it's worth...

Send Merits are limited, you don't have Unlimited Send Merits, do you?
What if you have 10 Merits in a month and you have already send those merits to some users and then you find another worth constructive post, you will add a reminder in your calendar and wait for next month to send him a Merit again?
Does that make sense?

This is the point... you can't compare a Merit System with a Thank You button system...

Merit System is indeed good at it's place, i have no problem with that... but it doesn't equal to a Thank You button...
The idea is different because it gives fair chance to every user regardless of their Rank, hope so you get it..

The rule of forum is simple, don't spam with One Liners like Thank You, Loved it etc.. but there is nothing bad in having a button to appreciate a Constructive/Quality post, that's the least a contributor can expect in return...

I know you might not agree with me over here because you are a Sr. Member and for you whatever i said might look funny, even some other high rank members may not agree wit me, but that's just okay.... i am not here to debate on this.... i felt i should make a detailed response to this and so i did...

At-least some of the lower rank members would surely agree with me...

In the way you speak, does that mean you got a place in this forum only if you got some skills else stay as a Newbie forever and you won't ever get a chance to appreciate anyone's work in this forum?

Does a person watching a Song on YouTube needs to be a Singer?
Definitely not..
Hope so you get it..

Also, implementing this feature on this forum is not a hectic task at all... I'm a Website Developer and i myself have multiple forums.... it can be done within few minutes itself..

You have check this here,
SMF Mod Site
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=257

You may go through the sample Screenshots over here,
Screenshots of Thank You mod:
https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?action=download;mod=257;id=32396;image
https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?action=download;mod=257;id=32398;image
https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?action=download;mod=257;id=32394;image

Anyways, by-chance if the Admin notices this post then i will leave this to the Admin to decide whether it is worth or not.. let them decide and make a wise decision.. we Users can also post suggestions, at the end of the day it's their final decision that matters the most...

So i get back to work... enjoy this excellent forum until then....

PS: Apologies for the lengthy response... while typing it in a detailed manner i didn't realised the message went too lengthy..

I haven't noticed that, correct the sentence please although i don't put much thought on minor mistakes especially when the mistake doesn't affect the meaning of my message. the idea is to pass on my message successfully. If I'm privilege to meet the Queen, I'll try to speak as she does

It is not the first time you made this typo, fella. 

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I consider most mere thank you messages as unnecessary (so I'll say spam). If those thank you message are accompanied with other meaningful information or useful messages then they're ok. If you ask a question through creating a topic and got a reply that satisfied you, you can simply lock your thread, edit the title to show the issue has been resolved. You can as well quote the answer on your OP then add a thank you message, makes it easier for future users who might have similar issues. A reasonable users doesn't need your thank you to know his reply was useful especially when he did provide accurate solution to your problem. If you still feel a need you can do that privately.

In the aspect of merit to quality contributions, if you don't have smerit and feel that reply was useful to you and as well be useful to others you can report such post to be highlighted by merit sources and they'll do the honors. I know I would (if it's worth recieving merits).

It will be considered as spam when it is actually a spam post. It depends on context where poster makes it. Unfortunately, most of posters whom leave their "Thank you" posts are spammers, and they make it in fake conversation, in monologue. We all can identify fake conversation easily.
I don't see convincing reason for those buttons. Then, we might have some buttons: Like, Dislike, Thanks, Crying, Fantastic, etc. like Facebook. I don't think we need those buttons. I don't think admin has intention to makes such changes and makes the forum looks funny like that. We might see it in only one case, the coming April Fool. 
Merit button is enough, if you don't have them, try to earn them from your contributions, then you will have small gifts that you can send to others when you need to say thanks to their help for your questions, or simply to their good posts.

I somewhat agree with that or i can say that i do partially agree with that, because if you appreciate someone's work it would indeed give him more inspiration to make a better constructive post in future...

I have personally seen some users posting a constructive post but didn't received any appreciation or merit or anything on that post... because that post might have went unnoticed because it might be posted on a category on this forum which is less frequently Read/Visited by the users, may-be..

If "Thank you" and similar appreciation words meant nothing to users, then majority people on YouTube wouldn't ask it's users to post comments beneath their video or to Like their Video / Subscribe etc..

Majority of the user loves to be appreciated.. so this is the part i agree with you...

That been said, when it comes to a forum if every user starts to say "Thank you" then almost every thread would be flooded with Thank You messages and other users would find it quite irritating to read through the entire post and might even stop visiting that thread again due to frustration...

For this, if a "Thank You" or "Like It" button is introduced then it would be much appreciated..

I know that the Merit System is already available, but every user doesn't have the Send Merit option available with them, it would take some time for New Users to reach that level & start using the Merit System... so in the meanwhile a small "Thank You" button on each Post would be much appreciated if that could be implemented...
This way when a user likes a Post he would simply press the "Thank You" button instead of replying with a "Thank You" message, this would avoid majority of the Spam Messages related to "Thank You" etc.. on the forum and less work on Moderators too...

That was just my opinion on this...  Enjoy the Forum..

I do not think appreciating anyone and saying "Thank You" can be considered as a spam. Depending upon the occasion and the situation, sometimes a person is motivated by such gestures and hence we should not call appreciating anyone a spam.

There is no minimum post length required. As long as your post is constructive as well as on topic, your post will not be deleted. But just posting a thank you is counted as spam probably.