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Topic: Mining Equipment Manufacturers - page 11. (Read 55732 times)

legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
July 13, 2013, 03:17:00 PM
Wink
I get annoyed.
15% constant rise gives      99 668 TH/s in a year! (dec 2014) (100 PH/s)
20% constant rise gives     570 660 TH/s !!! (570 PH/s)
40% constant rise gives 317 100 041 TH/s !!!!!!!!! (317 100 PH/s)

ASIC is a new technology, but it does not have the same impact as the GPUs back then. And it will not evolve that quick to make such an impact.
15%

20%

40%


Nice, when did GPU come online?
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
July 13, 2013, 01:00:15 PM
Yes, ujka, and I am glad you're here to add balance Smiley

If we were still with FPGA and GPU we would have still probably seen an 8-12% rise in the next year right? It's never been lower than that.  
Don't think so.
We are now at the 200TH/s hashrate and the 'bitcoin price/difficulty' ratio is so low that GPU mining is stopping. FPGA can maybe go some more, but not up to 6200TH/s (that's what 8% constant increase is).
My point is, miners will not add new hashpower, and spend thousands of $ on overpriced hardware, if it's not profitable. At some point they will stop buying. Hardware price must go down, or bitcoin price must go up. Significantly.
Let's look at hardware needed, in the form of KnC 400Gh (still only on paper, but most profitable) for:

 8%:        15 000 miners, and       $100 000 000
15%:       230 000 miners, and     $1 600 000 000
20%:     1 400 000 miners, and    $10 000 000 000
40%: 1 000 000 000 miners, and $7 600 000 000 000

Quote
Why is it out of bounds to think that we could have 15-20%?  The numbers are really high, but if the chips keep improving difficulty is bound to skyrocket.  We should see at least one more improvement in the technology available for sale by the time a year is done, and likely more.  I'm sure there are people planning the next step, or even the step after that, right now.
I expect at least one more improvement in the technology in a year, too. But by then, the network will also 'grow' and that new technology again will not have such a big impact.

 Wink
I expected some 'Woouu' for collecting all that data and making those charts. It really took some time.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
July 13, 2013, 12:19:37 PM
Yes, ujka, and I am glad you're here to add balance Smiley

If we were still with FPGA and GPU we would have still probably seen an 8-12% rise in the next year right?  It's never been lower than that.  Why is it out of bounds to think that we could have 15-20%?  The numbers are really high, but if the chips keep improving difficulty is bound to skyrocket.  We should see at least one more improvement in the technology available for sale by the time a year is done, and likely more.  I'm sure there are people planning the next step, or even the step after that, right now.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
July 13, 2013, 11:50:20 AM
 Wink
I get annoyed.
15% constant rise gives      99 668 TH/s in a year! (dec 2014) (100 PH/s)
20% constant rise gives     570 660 TH/s !!! (570 PH/s)
40% constant rise gives 317 100 041 TH/s !!!!!!!!! (317 100 PH/s)

ASIC is a new technology, but it does not have the same impact as the GPUs back then. And it will not evolve that quick to make such an impact.
15%


20%


40%
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
July 13, 2013, 10:44:46 AM
Actually yeah, I was going to do that yesterday but never got around to it.
wanted to change to:
8 11 14 17 20

If I go more than 3 steps the range gets really wide.  People get annoyed at me saying there is no chance of having a 20%+ raise.  I'm not so sure.  Just taking the average of all percentage rises you get 17%.  That's counting all the low periods, including the year or so there was 0% rise.  Take those out and it's 20%. 
There have been very high growth periods in the past.  From 5/29/10 to 5/26/11 we averaged 40%.
The growth has been stable and calm since the GPU surge, I think people are used to that, not realizing the possible impact of a new technology.  Lol..  Thinking in that context makes me want to go back to 10-25%, and add a 40% just in case.
newbie
Activity: 19
Merit: 0
July 13, 2013, 03:53:45 AM
Could you please update the profit calculations for 21% and more difficulty growth?

Or maybe someone can recommend a good calculator that allows both to account for difficulty growth and delay in mining start?

http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ is a very good one

For estimated starting difficulty use the formula:  X*(1+Z/100)^(Y/13)

where X is current difficulty
Z is % difficulty increase per cycle
Y is days till delivery

For profitability decline per year use: 1/[(1+Z/100)^(365/13)]

eg. for 21% increase and hardware arrival in 90 days

starting difficulty: 26mil * 1.21^(90/13) = 97907276
profitability decline per year: 1/[1.21^(265/13)] = 0.0047385

Plug those values into the calculator with your other info

Too easy

Keep in mind that a linear percentage increase in difficulty is very unlikely and so predictions of more than a few months or so will be inaccurate
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
July 13, 2013, 02:15:06 AM
Could you please update the profit calculations for 21% and more difficulty growth?

Or maybe someone can recommend a good calculator that allows both to account for difficulty growth and delay in mining start?
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
July 12, 2013, 10:50:29 PM
i see the column tested ... what is the meaning of it ...

KnC Jupiter Tested = yes ... ?
Sorry no.  I meant to change that back, thanks for the reminder.


Yes exactly klondike

legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1005
ASIC Wannabe
July 12, 2013, 04:33:21 PM

I have no idea how or why you have all Klondike K16 units all at different ROI...

They're the same unit.

It makes no sense to me.


ROI is based on the unit cost. Not every K16 vendor is priced equally
hero member
Activity: 529
Merit: 501
July 12, 2013, 04:08:59 PM

I have no idea how or why you have all Klondike K16 units all at different ROI...

They're the same unit.

It makes no sense to me.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 265
July 12, 2013, 03:47:34 PM
i see the column tested ... what is the meaning of it ...

KnC Jupiter Tested = yes ... ?
full member
Activity: 155
Merit: 100
July 12, 2013, 01:16:46 PM
May be I missed this somewhere since you have changed the format but what are you using now for your difficulty predictions?  (i.e. 21%/14 days?)
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
July 12, 2013, 12:27:09 AM
They don't sell miners any more.  I'll put an Avalon page on the new list as I make it for the secondary market.
hero member
Activity: 486
Merit: 500
July 11, 2013, 11:36:37 PM
why is Avalon not on table?
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
July 11, 2013, 07:33:11 PM
That's odd. According to the current exchange rate, evilscoop's service is more expensive than mine, and yet he gets better ROI.  Huh
lol, I'll take a look.  Some crazy stuff happened when I started reorganizing.  I was going to invite others to take a look to see if their numbers look right.

About 10% at any point can be from currency exchange waiting to be arbitraged.

Ok, found it.  He had only 8% difficulty.  Went through every cell and checked, everyone else was good.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
July 11, 2013, 05:01:46 PM
That's odd. According to the current exchange rate, evilscoop's service is more expensive than mine, and yet he gets better ROI.  Huh
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
July 11, 2013, 03:33:19 PM
Unsurprisingly ASICminer 's units are still a total waste of time...

Right now they still have the benefit of being the least unreliable as far as delivery is concerned. I wonder if they'll change to more competitive prices once the market and range of producers as grown.
I'm surprised about this...  I fixed the biggest problem just now.  VLOOKUP(1,table,3,FALSE) will look for values even if you don't tell it to if you don't have the FALSE statement.  I can't imagine why though.

omg I need to take my eyes off the screen for a while!
legendary
Activity: 3150
Merit: 2185
Playgram - The Telegram Casino
July 11, 2013, 02:19:06 PM
Unsurprisingly ASICminer 's units are still a total waste of time...

Right now they still have the benefit of being the least unreliable as far as delivery is concerned. I wonder if they'll change to more competitive prices once the market and range of producers as grown.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
July 11, 2013, 09:57:49 AM
Unsurprisingly ASICminer 's units are still a total waste of time...

member
Activity: 108
Merit: 10
July 11, 2013, 09:36:37 AM
That's better!  Grin

I doubt if knc jupiter or saturn are "tested". There is nothing to test afaik.

At the same time bitfury chips for 100 TH project in Poland are being placed on boards now. Metabank is currently arranging everything with local assembler in Russia, board design is to be demonstrated this week. So one could say it's kinda much more close to  "tested".

Anyway, you are doing very useful job. I believe arranging all this data is such a headache. I never made a single website in my life and most probably never will.
Really?  I obviously need to watch those demo videos again lol..  I thought KnC had some tests done?  Yeah I remember hearing that about BitFury, I'll put a tested on them.

There is something odd with the Bitburner boards. The 10 chip board is relatively more expensive than the 20 chip board, but still has a higher profit % ?!
You're right about that, on the surface all the references look right unfortunately.  I'm still only half way through going through them, so I'm sure I'll find it soon.  Hopefully I'll get a chance to finish tonight.

No, you don't need to watch that video again.  Smiley It demonstrates FPGA prototype. KNC asic chip doesn't exist and thus can't be tested.
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