Minor trust score algorithm change - page 3.

Muhammed Zakir

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I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!

Quote from: tidus1097 on May 21, 2015, 11:51:32 AM

Quote from: Muhammed Zakir on May 21, 2015, 11:44:11 AM

Quote from: tidus1097 on May 21, 2015, 11:40:30 AM

Quote from: sukamasoto on May 21, 2015, 11:34:35 AM

The first number is the trust score.

So the trust score appear if you receive any trust include positive and negative on default trust and out of default trust ?

That's what I'm curious about. If someone trades someone out of default trust does it still raise the score? Or is the only way to raise the score is to trade with default trust? If so, that does not seem right. I do understand that you shouldn't trade exclusively with default trust nor do I, but if someone has alot of successful trades with other members that are not on default trust, that does not seem right that they would not get some sort of rating increase. That of course if trading outside default trust does not change your rating.

Numbers in trust rating increases only if you get positive feedback from default trust list users.

I can and do understand the reasoning behind this and its purpose, but, idk. Seems like their would be a better solution. Maybe a untrusted feedback ranking score as well.

Untrusted feedback score can easily be manipulated. It won't have any "good" use.

tidus1097

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Activity: 434

Merit: 252

Quote from: Muhammed Zakir on May 21, 2015, 11:44:11 AM

Quote from: tidus1097 on May 21, 2015, 11:40:30 AM

Quote from: sukamasoto on May 21, 2015, 11:34:35 AM

The first number is the trust score.

So the trust score appear if you receive any trust include positive and negative on default trust and out of default trust ?

That's what I'm curious about. If someone trades someone out of default trust does it still raise the score? Or is the only way to raise the score is to trade with default trust? If so, that does not seem right. I do understand that you shouldn't trade exclusively with default trust nor do I, but if someone has alot of successful trades with other members that are not on default trust, that does not seem right that they would not get some sort of rating increase. That of course if trading outside default trust does not change your rating.

Numbers in trust rating increases only if you get positive feedback from default trust list users.

I can and do understand the reasoning behind this and its purpose, but, idk. Seems like their would be a better solution. Maybe a untrusted feedback ranking score as well.

EcuaMobi

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Activity: 1876

Merit: 1475

Quote from: tidus1097 on May 21, 2015, 11:40:30 AM

Quote from: sukamasoto on May 21, 2015, 11:34:35 AM

The first number is the trust score.

So the trust score appear if you receive any trust include positive and negative on default trust and out of default trust ?

That's what I'm curious about. If someone trades someone out of default trust does it still raise the score? Or is the only way to raise the score is to trade with default trust? If so, that does not seem right. I do understand that you shouldn't trade exclusively with default trust nor do I, but if someone has alot of successful trades with other members that are not on default trust, that does not seem right that they would not get some sort of rating increase. That of course if trading outside default trust does not change your rating.

Only ratings from people on your trust network affect how you see other people's trust. For the great majority of users (who don't change any settings) that means only feedback from users on default trust levels up to 2.

If you add or remove people from your trust list you will see everyone's trust differently. The theory is that you don't trust at all users outside of your trust network so their ratings don't matter. The problem is most users never really create their own trust network and just use the default one.

chronicsky

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Activity: 2828

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Just looking for peace

Quote from: Muhammed Zakir on May 21, 2015, 11:44:11 AM

Quote from: tidus1097 on May 21, 2015, 11:40:30 AM

Quote from: sukamasoto on May 21, 2015, 11:34:35 AM

The first number is the trust score.

So the trust score appear if you receive any trust include positive and negative on default trust and out of default trust ?

That's what I'm curious about. If someone trades someone out of default trust does it still raise the score? Or is the only way to raise the score is to trade with default trust? If so, that does not seem right. I do understand that you shouldn't trade exclusively with default trust nor do I, but if someone has alot of successful trades with other members that are not on default trust, that does not seem right that they would not get some sort of rating increase. That of course if trading outside default trust does not change your rating.

Numbers in trust rating increases only if you get positive feedback from default trust list users.

That's how it has always been , Trade with DF and get Trust else stay Neutral even after 100 Feedbacks Wink

Muhammed Zakir

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 509

I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!

Quote from: tidus1097 on May 21, 2015, 11:40:30 AM

Quote from: sukamasoto on May 21, 2015, 11:34:35 AM

The first number is the trust score.

So the trust score appear if you receive any trust include positive and negative on default trust and out of default trust ?

That's what I'm curious about. If someone trades someone out of default trust does it still raise the score? Or is the only way to raise the score is to trade with default trust? If so, that does not seem right. I do understand that you shouldn't trade exclusively with default trust nor do I, but if someone has alot of successful trades with other members that are not on default trust, that does not seem right that they would not get some sort of rating increase. That of course if trading outside default trust does not change your rating.

Numbers in trust rating increases only if you get positive feedback from default trust list users.

tidus1097

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 252

Quote from: sukamasoto on May 21, 2015, 11:34:35 AM

The first number is the trust score.

So the trust score appear if you receive any trust include positive and negative on default trust and out of default trust ?

That's what I'm curious about. If someone trades someone out of default trust does it still raise the score? Or is the only way to raise the score is to trade with default trust? If so, that does not seem right. I do understand that you shouldn't trade exclusively with default trust nor do I, but if someone has alot of successful trades with other members that are not on default trust, that does not seem right that they would not get some sort of rating increase. That of course if trading outside default trust does not change your rating.

sukamasoto

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Activity: 1148

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Black Panther

The first number is the trust score.

So the trust score appear if you receive any trust include positive and negative on default trust and out of default trust ?

Quote from: gampher on May 20, 2015, 07:00:51 PM

Can i ask a clear explanation on what does the 'month' do or its effect? I cant understand it clearly

I think the score will change after a month

niktitan132

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Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Quote from: koelen3 on May 21, 2015, 11:22:07 AM

Quote from: Muhammed Zakir on May 21, 2015, 11:13:36 AM

Quote from: koelen3 on May 21, 2015, 11:06:28 AM

I was confused to see why is the fourth number missing in the Trust of people.
Can't get a hold of this Angry

And why do i see this Question marks with Red ink on this person's profile ?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/justbtcme-148389

He used to appear light green if i remember correct

I assume BayAreaCoins is in your trust list and his rating is new. Hence, you will see that rating. FYI he is still green for me.

Quote from: erikalui on May 20, 2015, 01:56:11 PM

The code is : if(score < 0)
return ?? ? (orange)

Hence it returned ?? ?

Quote from: theymos on May 20, 2015, 01:57:19 PM

??? is a valid score in the new algorithm.

Quote from: dogie on May 20, 2015, 01:41:39 PM

Doesn't that mean if someone receives a positive and a negative rating, they'll go negative if the negative is newer?

If someone has 1 positive and 1 negative, then the time doesn't matter. They'll have a score of -1.

Examples:
Old -> New
+ - : -1
- + : -1
+ + - : ???
+ - + : 0
- + + : 1
+ + + : >=3
- - + : -3
+ - - : -3
- - - : -8

-snip-

No, my trust list is unedited and it's Default Depth 2
But atleast now i know why it is such , but i still don't get HOW Huh

I mean he have 6 positive and 1 negative , why is he orange and ???

He has a orange and ??? trust symbol because the negative trust feedback is having more weight on his trust than the positive feedbacks.

koelen3

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Activity: 1022

Merit: 1007

Sooner or later, a man who wears two faces forgets

Quote from: Muhammed Zakir on May 21, 2015, 11:13:36 AM

Quote from: koelen3 on May 21, 2015, 11:06:28 AM

I was confused to see why is the fourth number missing in the Trust of people.
Can't get a hold of this Angry

And why do i see this Question marks with Red ink on this person's profile ?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/justbtcme-148389

He used to appear light green if i remember correct

I assume BayAreaCoins is in your trust list and his rating is new. Hence, you will see that rating. FYI he is still green for me.

Quote from: erikalui on May 20, 2015, 01:56:11 PM

The code is : if(score < 0)
return ?? ? (orange)

Hence it returned ?? ?

Quote from: theymos on May 20, 2015, 01:57:19 PM

??? is a valid score in the new algorithm.

Quote from: dogie on May 20, 2015, 01:41:39 PM

Doesn't that mean if someone receives a positive and a negative rating, they'll go negative if the negative is newer?

If someone has 1 positive and 1 negative, then the time doesn't matter. They'll have a score of -1.

Examples:
Old -> New
+ - : -1
- + : -1
+ + - : ???
+ - + : 0
- + + : 1
+ + + : >=3
- - + : -3
+ - - : -3
- - - : -8

-snip-

No, my trust list is unedited and it's Default Depth 2
But atleast now i know why it is such , but i still don't get HOW Huh

I mean he have 6 positive and 1 negative , why is he orange and ???

Muhammed Zakir

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 509

I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!

Quote from: koelen3 on May 21, 2015, 11:06:28 AM

I was confused to see why is the fourth number missing in the Trust of people.
Can't get a hold of this Angry

And why do i see this Question marks with Red ink on this person's profile ?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/justbtcme-148389

He used to appear light green if i remember correct

I assume BayAreaCoins is in your trust list and his rating is new. Hence, you will see that rating. FYI he is still green for me.

Quote from: erikalui on May 20, 2015, 01:56:11 PM

The code is : if(score < 0)
return ?? ? (orange)

Hence it returned ?? ?

Quote from: theymos on May 20, 2015, 01:57:19 PM

??? is a valid score in the new algorithm.

Quote from: dogie on May 20, 2015, 01:41:39 PM

Doesn't that mean if someone receives a positive and a negative rating, they'll go negative if the negative is newer?

If someone has 1 positive and 1 negative, then the time doesn't matter. They'll have a score of -1.

Examples:
Old -> New
+ - : -1
- + : -1
+ + - : ???
+ - + : 0
- + + : 1
+ + + : >=3
- - + : -3
+ - - : -3
- - - : -8

-snip-

koelen3

legendary

Activity: 1022

Merit: 1007

Sooner or later, a man who wears two faces forgets

I was confused to see why is the fourth number missing in the Trust of people.
Can't get a hold of this Angry

And why do i see this Question marks with Red ink on this person's profile ?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/justbtcme-148389

He used to appear light green if i remember correct

CrackedLogic

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

"Minor change"...

Quote from: Muhammed Zakir on May 21, 2015, 09:30:53 AM

What do you think about using previous formula with current trust rating style(removing last number)? Previous formula will have to be altered a bit. I didn't like current formula TBH. My rating would be 1: -0 / +4 with old formula which is much better (and looks more accurate) than 8: -0 / +4. Views?

I also prefer the old formula, however this doesn't affect me in any way. To old users on the forum it's going to be hard to get to grips with it *since the ratings seem to be immensely high. I see that the dark trust has comes when it's higher. All in all, I still prefer the old system. If you could show the total trust left along with the unique trust that would be great.

*Edit.

Muhammed Zakir

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 509

I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!

What do you think about using previous formula with current trust rating style(removing last number)? Previous formula will have to be altered a bit. I didn't like current formula TBH. My rating would be 1: -0 / +4 with old formula which is much better (and looks more accurate) than 8: -0 / +4. Views?

dogie

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Merit: 1185

dogiecoin.com

Quote from: Bicknellski on May 21, 2015, 04:21:56 AM

You can use the ~ to set whatever trust you want for any user you like really given they have a reasonable number of positive ratings already. If you don't like it get your fan to support you and change it. Heck band together and ~ the whole default trust list and rebuild it in your own image.

The only thing that would change is your and your friend's perspective. Nothing else would change if neither of you are trustworthy.

Blazr

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 1006

It would be nice to add a link each of the trusted feedbacks that easily lets you remove that user from your trust list, and also add a link to each of the untrusted feedbacks that lets you add a user to your trust list.

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Edited my Trust Settings and here are my results now.

Conclusion:

You can use the ~ to set whatever trust you want for any user you like really given they have a reasonable number of positive ratings already. If you don't like it get your fans to support you and change it, or if you are dogie use your shill network and attack others that post your dirty laundry in the forums and use the moderator button hard and often to get your enemies banned that is how works and will continue to work as the tweaks have already been made. Heck those with any real ethics, unlike Adam Allcock, should band together and ~ the whole default trust list and rebuild it trust in a more utopian image.

Now if only Techshare and Vod would just shake hands and broker the truce then I can remove the ~Vod and tweak my trust settings more. I hate it when daddy and daddy fight. Basically I want to add ~ to anyone they both marked negative after I review their claims except for Vod's claim against Techshare which should disappear soon enough.

Quote from: hilariousandco on May 21, 2015, 04:19:08 AM

Quote from: Bicknellski on May 21, 2015, 03:12:22 AM

Since the change:

dogie from +63 to -481
quickseller -20 to -90
VOD -100 to -2011
Techshare +100 to ? ? ?
Bicknellski +63 to +75

I'll see how I can make you positive since I trust you and VOD.

I don't think it we be possible to trust both Tecshare and Vod's ratings simultaneously with them both showing up as trusted because vod has left negative on Tecshare.

Quote from: Blazr on May 21, 2015, 03:58:40 AM

This doesn't seem right to me, that seems too easy for users to lose their score. You can see above theymos has lots of positive from people in my trust network, but the single negative made him lose his green score.

Yeah I think something has to change. I see Tecshare at ? ??: -1 / +8 and he shouldn't lose all his green trust just because of one neg.

hilariousandco

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Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: Bicknellski on May 21, 2015, 03:12:22 AM

Since the change:

dogie from +63 to -481
quickseller -20 to -90
VOD -100 to -2011
Techshare +100 to ? ? ?
Bicknellski +63 to +75

I'll see how I can make you positive since I trust you and VOD.

I don't think it we be possible to trust both Tecshare and Vod's ratings simultaneously with them both showing up as trusted because vod has left negative on Tecshare.

Quote from: Blazr on May 21, 2015, 03:58:40 AM

This doesn't seem right to me, that seems too easy for users to lose their score. You can see above theymos has lots of positive from people in my trust network, but the single negative made him lose his green score.

Yeah I think something has to change. I see Tecshare at ? ??: -1 / +8 and he shouldn't lose all his green trust just because of one neg.

chronicsky

legendary

Activity: 2828

Merit: 1222

Just looking for peace

Quote from: Blazr on May 21, 2015, 03:58:40 AM

I'm now seeing this for theymos with my trust list:

It seems to be caused by a single negative trust from someone in my trust network:

This doesn't seem right to me, that seems too easy for users to lose their score. You can see above theymos has lots of positive from people in my trust network, but the single negative made him lose his green score.

Yes! This is actually bad and removes the so called use of Trust
He says one negative trust can negate 100 positive points

Quote from: master-P on May 21, 2015, 12:36:09 AM

Quote from: guitarplinker on May 20, 2015, 08:14:53 PM

I'm liking this new trust system, seems to give older scammers a red tag like they deserve. I noticed this on the 'creativex' account, the guy who ran the bASIC-MINING scam now has red trust, and before he didn't.

I also agree with what others said a few pages back though, it doesn't seem right for users with a single positive feedback to have a +10 score after a year of doing nothing, I definitely think it creates a sense of false trust, at least if people don't go and check out the user's actual ratings.

I believe a +10 trust score will eventually even out and not be as much compared to other trust scores. Since the new system basically makes older trust ratings add more value to your trust score. A member with a single trust rating can get a +10 score from that rating alone but nothing more. I do like the new system more, it makes more sense to me and I believe it is easier for others to understand as well. The old algorithm was honestly a pretty big mystery to me that I didn't bother looking into too much.

I never understood it as well!
This one is quite easy to understand and i don't know why does it matter if 1 trust score can go upto 10 , they still stay light Green unlike before when 5+ meant Dark Green.
Though am not sure yet when it becomes Dark Green because i saw people with 19 as first number ,having Dark GReen too

Blazr

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 1006

I'm now seeing this for theymos with my trust list:

It seems to be caused by a single negative trust from someone in my trust network:

This doesn't seem right to me, that seems too easy for users to lose their score. You can see above theymos has lots of positive from people in my trust network, but the single negative made him lose his green score.

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Lobbying / popularity getting out the vote is what any system like this based on.

Do what most people do put a ~ next to all those that neg rep you including those on the default list you get your belibers to follow suit presto chango your positive. Hate Vod get everyone of your belibers to neg him he is neg to you and them. US vs. Them vs. Them. Always been this way. If your army is bigger than the default list you have sway. Please keep campaigning I'll join your army tecshare minus negging rep on Vod. I'll just copy your trust setup okay?

Quote from: TECSHARE on May 21, 2015, 02:43:03 AM

Quote from: theymos on May 20, 2015, 03:07:42 PM

In situations like TECSHARE's, you can (if you trust TECSHARE and disagree with Vod) post an additional positive rating responding to whatever Vod said. This will counteract Vod's negative rating.

So in effect, what you are saying is that the trust system is no longer about who trades and who is trusted with what, rather it is now about a popularity contest, and who you can convince to join your own circlejerk club. Can you explain to me why I deserve to be excluded from the entire default trust tree over one rating while Vod can negative rate me (and lots of others) without repercussion negating my entire trust over the fact that he doesn't like what I have to say about him? Every time you "improve" the trust system it becomes more and more arbitrary and able to be manipulated from the top.

Since the change:

dogie from +63 to -481
quickseller -20 to -90
VOD -100 to -2011
Techshare +100 to ? ? ?
Bicknellski +63 to +75

I'll see how I can make you positive since I trust you and VOD.

Edit:

Done now you are O.

Techshare Trust: 0: -1 / +42

All I did was put ~Vod.

Seems fair right?

Topic: Minor trust score algorithm change - page 3. (Read 7377 times)