Topic: Mixers to be banned - page 42. (Read 23083 times)

I just want to do my bit in this topic, and I congratulate the management got the decision made, which shouldn't have been easy. Recent developments advised to be cautious and maintaining this historic agora is a responsibility that deserves to be given good attention. And there is a lot to lose because of greed or simple laissez faire approach when it has been proven than criminals are taking advantage of the situation.

So recently I was quite afraid to log in one day and find that the forum has been shut down, but after this decision I'm more confident in the future of our beloved bitcointalk.

Spot on! Talk about killing two birds with one stone.

Why stop at Wasabi though? A Whirlpool coordinator would also be cool, assuming such a thing can be extensible.

Will you include the feedback system for filtering words? I just tested it, and (assuming I had the correct URL), it showed up. I'm asking because I've left some users neutral feedback confirming their real site (to help others avoid phishing sites).

You have the freedom to express your opinion when you're in the US. That doesn't mean you get it on every privately owned server. Just like you won't get it inside anyone's house.

You might be on to something here. I think the safest thing to do would be to ban any mention of Bitcoin on this forum. Then we can all safely post vapid chatbot-generated texts on the Bitcoin Discussion board, peddle some shitcoins here and there, and maybe run a few scams in the marketplace (but obviously take only PayPal payments).

Wow, how many pedophiles are here? Feds, please attach all 12 pages of this topic to the materials of the case against the mixers

Mixers - invented by pedophiles and terrorists for money laundering

Stop supporting mixers!

Archived for the feds

This is a good post. I avoided having a signature for years. Why ? I know my Country USA is going into a very weird mindset.
Finally I decided I would take a signature because I knew things were out of hand.
My country has 21 soon to be 22 failed budgets in a row.
It practices inconsistent polices state to state and county to county.
When I read George Orwell's 1984 50 years ago I was appalled.
But it is obvious that it is happening.

I will keep signature until Dec 31. After that I am not sure what I will do. For a new signature.

Why are you engaging with a troll who was only given oxygen because a particular campaign manager has a tendency to enrol participants other campaign managers would never consider. If he was not getting paid for posting/trolling he would have given up on the account and used others to try to build them up.

As for him attacking theymos, well that exposes his mentality even further. You explained perfectly well how theymos is based in the US and has to comply with the law but trolls and spammers will not understand anything about contributing to the forum, they are interested in attention-seeking and getting paid by a campaign manager that keep making mistake upon mistake in his management.

another pathetic "pre-compliance" bootlickery

So I can now move from the wildly criminal Mixing Service advertisement to the very healthy advertisement of MUCH better Services such as gambling or Shit Coins that end up most of the time scamming out every body.

Makes sense!  Why do we all look for Privacy when we could get drunk and spend all our life savings in the Casino so we have a few reasons to maybe contemplate hanging strings from the ceiling tomorrow.  Sounds so much safer!

Because SURELY the people who want to launder their money will never use any of the remaining methods of covering traces.  Surely not.  I need to have my right to Privacy and Freedom of Speech revoked for some bums who will only continue to use the ways described.  Surely Monero will not be a way out for them.  But I have to suffer.  We have to suffer.

How about we also ban advertisement of Services such as Peach?  How about we ban Currency Exchanges on Bitcoin Talk completely.  For all we know, the largest Network of Cryptocurrency crime could be right here.  Executing small but constant Peer to Peer trades to wash their traces away.  Or using Peach for even more Privacy.

How about Collectibles.  How many of our members legitimately purchase Collectibles?  What IF some of them use Collectibles as a way to launder their illegal Coins?  Ban every board!  Make a filter of words and any body who mentions 'Privacy' gets banned.  The Authorities make us look like we are the biggest criminals on Earth anyway.  So do we apply more Censorship or do we risk losing Bitcoin Talk?

Where is this Forum headed really?  How do we know the Casinos some members promote have not been started using criminal money or are not being used for Money Laundering?

Some body will say 'just ban Signature Campaigns completely then, or ban Monero and every such thing altogether'.  But that is even WORSE.  Either this Forum is against Censorship or it is not.  I simply can not fathom how and why these changes are happening.

We are headed to a point where Privacy means going into the dark net.  To a point where the 'criminal side of the Internet' will offer more human rights than Bitcoin Talk will.  Is this the shiny future we should be waiting for?  Guess we are supporting the 2030 Own Nothing Be Happy ideology too?

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So we are not allowed to direct any body to any Mixing Service.  But we can promote Monero and Coin Join non custodial Wallets.

But then you can not direct any body to a Service that promotes Bitcoin > Monero > Bitcoin Exchanges.  How does this make sense?

Reading this from our member called theymos is yet another arrow straight into the entire community of Privacy supporting people.  I feel harshly betrayed.  I said this only a few days ago.  Monero is becoming the underground Currency for the people who care.  Bitcoin is slowly becoming the Currency of the obedient.  What is happening here and now is another step to that world and I will HATE living in that world.

I am reading a post of theymos talking about introducing Censorship to Bitcoin Talk.  This is wild and extremely disappointing.

I thought we were supposed to be the community that stands up.  The community that reads the bad news and moves on finding a way to conquer the Evil.  Let them ban Bitcoin Talk.  Fuck it, I rather have no Bitcoin Talk than a Censored version of it.  Because what is the point then if I have to shut my mouth.

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To any body reading this.  I have one thing to say.  Listen up.  This is a precedent.

If theymos censors Mixers, this is ONLY the beginning of further Censorship.

Why did you not close Bitcoin Talk every time China or any other country of the World has banned Bitcoin?

In fact.  Theymos, I think you made a HUGE mistake by doing this.  You are showing publicly a weak spot.  By banning Mixers out of fear of a Bitcoin Talk shutdown, you are showing the Authorities there is a weak spot they can hit every time they want further restrictions on Bitcoin Talk.  If they want Monero banned next?  All they have to do is start a public crackdown on Monero in a few countries and there it goes.  More Censorship!  Hooray!

Darn it.  This day feels like a page straight out of some pre Dystopia book plot.  We are right there and I can sense it.  The world is fucked.

if you wanted to take it to the extreme and go for it, you could just take the one picture where the brand of the respective mixer is not shown - so there would be no direct connection to those mixers here
just like i said earlier - it's a gray area here imo

i really don't want to give the impression that i really want these free raffles (i don't organize them anyway)
it should just be made clear here for the operators/organizers

There is a board for Serious discussion, so I guess now we need to have separate special Sarcasm board.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone forkes Bitcointalk forum soon, with servers in different locations, and without new rules, but that would mean different owner and mods.
There are already cases of forums with exactly the same bitcointalk forum content but on different domains.
New name could be Bitcoincashtalk forum or Bitcointalk og forum.  



That sounds better, but I am more concerned about KYC part of the new rules, that can have much bigger implications down the line.

Purge will probably happen.

Yeah, Bitcointalk PM's are buletproof safu and private, and you can't get reported there

A bit lenient, but trust me, this will cause a bigger confusion.
By next year, many newbies will be banned for sharing mixers link, and they will be confused as to why, when seeing others discuss mixers.
It will not be easy to explain to newbies the extent to get involved with the mixers in the forum.

Let a welcome message to newbies read thus;
"Welcome to the forum, avoid plagerism and avoid discussing or promoting mixers"
If the tension is calm in the side of the authorities, you could reconsider your decision of mixers ban.

The forum is already a dictatorship. Most internet discussion forums are.


You can always determine whether or not you want to keep using the forum, and what you want to do on it, within the context of the rules of the forum.


Yes, you can. Theymos has already stated that a couple of times.


Just as it is on Twitter/X - despite Elon's claims otherwise - 'free speech' here is just an illusion. There's really no such thing as free speech on the internet -- not so long as you are using somebody else's platform to do it. It really just means you have the right to say what you want to say in public and that the government won't stop you... even that has its limits.


You are free to do that.

As long as the brand and name are on the flyer/banner, a raffle draw for minutes is still a form of promotion. If such a raffle draw is permitted, all mixer would organise one every week in order to remain relevant on the forum.

theymos is unlikely to respond to already answered questions.

It's a simple logic.

I started to notice something that, "this forum does not moderate scams" is subjective to non-institutional users.

that is of course your view, which i also understand.
but that's why i asked the question to the admin (@theymos), because in these free raffles there is no discussion about the actual mixer, no links are posted, it's actually about a 'product' which in this sense only presents the branding and nothing else and these threads are usually closed after ~20-30 minutes
i think that there is still a gray area/backdoor here - that's why i would be happy if theymos could take a personal stand here

Big discussion indeed, but the protection of BitcoinTalk and its admins is of greatest importance. We can't let the government find any reason to take us down.

A question for theymos/admins. If mixers started to hire the services of blockchain analysis companies to filter out "tainted" inputs, then would such a mixer be allowed to advertise in the forum?

I also skimmed through the posts, pardon me if the same question was already posted.

Stop spreading FUD! I've read theymos' posts carefully and can't remember him stating to ban the mention of mixers.

As far as I understand the rules, you're allowed to name and talk about a mixer xyz, even not considering his proposal of "relaxed rules".
You're not allowed to post links to mixers or directories of links to mixers, to direct readers to mixers (like "Google mixer xyz").

I can talk about a particular mixer or mixers in general, just don't direct or point readers unambigously to them. I believe this is the essence of our forum dictator's new rules. The rules need to settle and mature and I hope that posts that balance at the bleeding edge won't get a ban hammer immediately but rather some sort of limited strikes first. If it's not possible to formulate precise and unambigous rules, possible with sufficiently descriptive examples of what's not OK or what will lead to a ban, then immediate bans would be over the top.

There's so much other BS, scams and whatnot posted in this forum which didn't lead to quick or immediate bans...
Don't want to justify, easy exhaustive rules are almost impossible. If you deliberately break (clear?) rules, you have to handle the consequences.

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Don't feed the troll Bitcoin SV, it doesn't deserve any attention... (even writing it's name is already too much of it)

As much as this might be the best step in the right direction to save the reputation of the forum, it is also important to note the  way and manner the Feds are moving in on crypto related ventures, it needs to be confronted with law suits. I mean, they have not finished clamping down on fraudulent systems within the conventional financial systems, all of a sudden, they are beaming their lights fully on crypto and everything crypto related.

While they might say most of these are somewhat related to money laundering, is it not worse with the conventional financial system? Why should the blockchain space be their target if not for regulations, hijack and extortion

It's time we wake up and question our rights rather than bow to oppression and pressure from the law makers.

Where did you get the idea that the forum itself was decentralized?
From the various actions and inactions, in the various suggestions and modifications that have slowly come by, the bans and unbans of certain users, you ought to have known that this forum has a government, it’s very much centralized. It is a Bitcoin discussion from and not Bitcoin itself. A centralized system that works for a Decentralized project.

This is why, I very much try to make people understand that, Decentralized systems aren’t here to kick Centralized systems out but, to work in conjunction as complementary to the other and that’s just the best form you can have it. Monopoly isn’t always a good idea for a field.

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Mean while, it’s such a hard decision to have been made on Mixers. Something I can’t accept or reject in its wholesomeness but understand why and how it came to be. Trying to set a clear path and ensure the continued existence of the forum, given that, this forum is governed by known people and hosted by a known system which could be affected by regulations in the worst case scenario.
Not so many want to be out there, standing for a course just because, the T&C has said this or that in separating the owner from certain wrong use of the services.
By far, mixers does nothing in just making traces untraceable. It’s the service they render, they never sourced for scammed coins neither are they in the line of business to ask questions or keep logs. They just mix and it seems justifiable, even the terms of service clearly separates them from any of such illegal usage but,
Has that been able to save the ones that stood out and got bigger, I suppose not.

Now, having the forum tangled in all cases that comes up and dies out over time will definitely drag more attention to the forum as a target being, a fertile land where the vegetative stage of these platforms is been grown.

Still, privacy remains an integral part of the cryptocurrency industry and having to see this service out…! I don’t know but, it’s such a hard decision to come by and I’m sure it’s the same even for Theymos.