Topic: Mixers to be banned - page 40. (Read 23083 times)

You know what's ironic?

Some people on this forum staunchly endorse WEF's agenda ("human-made" climate change hysteria, Digital ID, CBDC etc.), but they agreed with your post and even gave you merit.

Why? Because they're afraid of losing their precious mixer income.

They still believe Great Reset is a silly, tinfoil hat conspiracy theory for lunatics. They still believe Klaus Schwab is a good guy.

I have zero pity for them. They got what they deserve. It's called karma.

And yet, theymos claims he was "never" contacted by authorities:


 

Believe it or not, I don't pay too much attention to stuff like that. I know some forums (such as NeoGAF) do have a subscription.

Probably that will be the next step or even further complete signatures will be disabled in that way no more advertisements regarding illegal services, scams, etc.

But understand the difference here, casinos may turn out to be a scam and run away with all the users' money but with mixers what authorities paint is like to the most extreme, laundering the money from hacks also they might even come with the required evidences to shut down the similar services so as admin theymos is deciding between going all down or just the extra baggage. He chose the right way in my opinion but if we try him to push it too hard then as I said disabling the advertisement completely will be the solution.

You've been here for nearly 6 years and still don't know what copper membership is?  That's a little odd, but okay.

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An apt comparison.  You can discuss warez and illegal file sharing here on the forum, but if you start linking directly to copyright material downloads, expect to have your post deleted and repeat offenders could conceivably be banned.  

Obviously people can make the argument that mixers aren't technically illegal yet, but the authorities are certainly treating them as though they were.  And whether we proclaim that's over-reach or not, it's still not worth losing the forum over, IMO.

For a small fee you can set up an account that grants you certain functions a newbie account wouldn't have. That way you can post images, like the account did with the website of the seizure. It's almost granted that this person understands Bitcointalk relatively well if you also take into account the timings, like the setup of the account, the paid Copper membership, the post and the publication of the article talking about the seizure. Could be someone from the investigation team that worked on the Sinbad case.

It was only a matter of time. This is a good decision both morally and strategically. Unfortunately this is no longer the place to host mixers.

It's really the only path forward for the forum. I'm always in awe of how well run this place is and how much work has been put in it, it'd be a shame to throw it all away.

Interesting "coincidence".

What does "Copper Member" mean? Does this forum have a paid subscription or what?

Perhaps Theymos did not use the most accurate words to disclose this information, but based on the various observations made, it is possible to understand what is involved here.

It is not prohibited to talk about mixers, what is not authorized is to promote mixers. They are two very different things.

I already gave the example of torrents here. Maybe you don't know, but 10 years ago, when the authorities started to hunt down torrent sites, they reached a point where they had difficulty closing these sites - they shut down one and 10 were born. Faced with this difficulty, authorities adopted another strategy: going after sites that listed links to torrents. In this sense, several forums and blogs were closed and their owners arrested/fined, for promoting torrent links. Note, these forums and blogs did not host any torrents, they only told visitors where to find the content.

For example, the biggest torrent search engine, which did not host any torrents, the owner decided to close the site, because he was about to have problems with the authorities. And all of this happened despite torrents not being illegal. The content of some is what they are.

The same can happen with mixers. The authorities' difficulty in closing mixers - associated with hacks - may lead them to start attacking forums, blogs or websites that promote these services. What the forum administration is doing is preventing something like this from happening to Bitcointalk.

Please note, I do not agree with the way the authorities act. And I regret that this type of decision has to be made. But that doesn't stop me from understanding what's behind the decision. We have to look beyond just the moment we are living in.

Therefore, I would like to highlight what I said in my previous post:

Gee, I am sure this wasn't a a simple decision, but let us welcome it considering we have seen increased spikes in how mixers are getting published. If you go to the announcement thread then we can already see dozens of mixers coming out of nowhere. Yes, they might have legit services but we are not sure and never will be sure who is using that service for illegal activities.

I am sensing a connection between publicizing those mixers on the forum and then the forum also getting legal action because we were publishing them. That is an excellent decision considering what's happening in the "regulatory world". Let us not get connected with such marketing relationships that can hamper the forum's image. Afterall this is not the small forum where a few hundred peeps are wandering around but its ideally a whole universe in itself.

I think we are looking at a project that came and gone just like a creamy layer on cake. (Reminds me ICO era, the failed ones)

So are we supposed to expect other privacy enhancing projects to be also banned from the forum in the future? It is a legitimate question I have, because I certainly did not expect this kind of measure to become a reality so fast.
Is there a real posibility we won't be allowed to talk about Monero or Coinjoin in the c
Near future because of legal threats against this forum?
I understand self-preservation is a priority, I just want to be warned in advance for the sake of not feeling sadder than I am supposed to in the future about the decisions of the administration.
Anyways, thanks for keeping us posted about this and please continue to listen to this community...

Someone might have asked and commented the same already, so I apologize if I am repeating it. There were 5 pages of posts after you posted this.

The suggestion makes more sense. However there is a problem. The results you get on search engines by searching for a mixer are not to be trusted. If a user tells someone they can use ABC mixer, it's quite possible that the first 3 results on a search engine all lead to phishing sites. You are basically directing them to a phishing site without the correct URL. If the URLs are to be banned, can that same user who makes the recommendation say, contact me via PM or Telegram so I can give you the correct link? This way, no illegal links are posted on the forum.

But as PrivacyG said this is just the beginning. It has nothing to do with "mixers", it has to do with the government not being able to trace down transactions. And this is where the whole thing we are discussing here doesn't make sense, it doesn't add up. Leave aside the payments from signature campaigns, but if Monero is allowed and if some other form of exchange(s) that essentially enable(s) mixing without calling it that way is allowed, wouldn't it make much more sense to comply with the law by immediately banning any mixing service that has been caught or suspected for facilitating illegal transactions?

It is as if Bitcointalk would be the only place for the Lazarus Group to go and find a mixer because some of the people here wear the signature, but this is so nonsense. And if the idea was that the IRS has less work to do because people with plans to evade taxes now don't know what to do without mixers, how ridiculous would that be?

It would have made so much more sense that Bitcointalk warns mixers that want to advertise their services here, get immediately banned if some strong evidence emerges. Or what about the US glorifying their justice system for the "being innocent until proven guilty policy"? Why can't Bitcointalk also stick to "being innocent until proven guilty" policies and react immediately when a case has been concluded by prosecutors?

Someone drew a comparison between Silk Road I think and how someone was sentenced to life in prison, but come on. Nobody here is trading weapons, drugs, or contracting assassinations. Mixers are one of those things that some will use for good, and some will use it for evil.

I believe that casinos will be the next because everything else would make zero sense. Casinos can be launched with bad intent and relatively low funding, be operated with high risk, ran into the ground and then pull the rug. Advertise gambling with no KYC, and ultimately function like a mixing service.

But then they can attack any body who is using Bitcoin.  They could in fact start with the Core developers and theymos himself.  Maybe then also some of the more prevalent members of Bitcoin Talk.

At which point I ask again, of what help is it to ban Mixers on Bitcoin Talk?  If they want to crack down, they will.  At any point in the future with any kind of excuse or reason.  Ban Mixers today and get arrested for conspiracy to Money Laundering tomorrow.  They do not need to FIND something.  It is enough to ruin the reputation badly enough.  How hard is it to make articles and documentaries about the 'suspicious side of Bitcoin', the side being Bitcoin Talk Signature Campaigns and such?

It is clear they are increasingly forcing more hate into Bitcoin.  But we need to stand up and fight, not accept and obey.

By banning Mixers we can also ban Monero and Coin Joins.  They are doing about the same thing.  What is the difference?  The main idea is to use them to cover your prints.  So then Authorities can easily say we should ban every thing related to Privacy too.

Next up is what?  Trezor deciding to remove Tor out of Trezor Suite?  Electrum being legally enforced to produce new versions with no more Tor or Miners being restricted from using Tor at all?  They are all methods to Privacy and if we give up one, we have to give them all up.

Otherwise it sounds even more suspicious to ban only the Services that can be seized or sanctioned.  Why ban only Mixers which can be legally seized but not ban Monero and Coin Join supporting Wallets?  Oh!  Do you happen to like these because they let you hide better, you suspect?

Any route you pick, the result is the same.  Bitcoin Talk either becomes censored which defeats the entire purpose Satoshi created this all or Bitcoin Talk decides to stand up against Censorship.

A better route would have been maybe requiring Mixers to advertise on Bitcoin Talk only if the links direct you first to a page where you are shown some sort of warning about using the Service for criminal purposes.  Or requiring such warning to be included in the Signature Campaign.  Some body who WANTS to use a Mixer will look for it anyway, whether the link is available on Bitcoin Talk directly or not.  After all, you can not oblige some body to not break the law.  But you can show a preventive warning.

But then I think it is even more important for such warnings or pages to be required for advertisement of CASINOS too.  They are in my opinion much more damaging than a Mixer.

Imagine also the impact on new users.  Or on the Bitcoin Talk members who thought about using Mixers, Monero or Coin Join before but never did it.  They will tend more toward a resistance against them and fear using them.  The same effect negative 'Bitcoin is Dying' articles had on them.  For what reason?

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If theymos does not care about us who stand against Censorship, then the creation of Satoshi is doomed.  Bitcoin Talk is one of the VERY few remaining websites where you can still input your opinion no matter what.  Theymos himself standing against us is self destructive in my opinion.

As soon as Bitcoin Talk does Censorship I will start looking for an alternative and I am convinced I am not the only one.  This place would only become more of a hell hole than it already is.  And if to him a Bitcoin Talk with no more people like us but filled instead to the edge with Shit Coins and scammers is better just so 'they do not shut the Forum down' then so be it.  It will probably go down the route of all the other Forums where every body only posted to be paid and you were stuck in a loop of parrots speaking to walls.

What if the admin does not care what are you talking about? Surely he is scared about it. He could have better reason like he got threats from somewhere or any kind of legal notice. But, nothing happened. I see bitcoin talk as a public forum just like other forums on the internet. If the forum does not moderate scams, then why moderate mixers when it's not illegal?

Would any country will ban guns because terrorists use them? At the same time, a country uses guns to protect itself as well. I see this censorship the same as Bitcoin ban in my country. One of our ministers said you cannot ban a currency just because it was used for crime. The currency has nothing to do. It's just a currency. Still, the government banned Bitcoin because they believe Bitcoin users are criminals.

Now, I am talking about the Bitcoin ban in my country in this forum. But where should I write about censorship of Bitcointalk?

I am quite convinced that "they" have the real IP addresses and all the data of those who advertised (and are still advertising what will be banned on the forum) and that it is quite realistic that such an operation could be launched at any time in the future. Forget VPN, Tor, proxy and everything that supposedly provides privacy, there are back doors for everything, even for the servers where this forum is located.

It's not about mixers at all because they are basically not illegal and only a small part of the transactions that pass through them come from illegal sources, but "they" are actually looking for weak points in the system through which they will then "satanize" all those who have anything to do with what we can call "Satoshi Bitcoin".

For those who have read what BlackRock wrote in their request for a spot ETF, it may be a little clearer in which direction they are trying to steer Bitcoin. If someone publicly declares that he leaves himself free to not support the chain behind which the majority stands in the event of a BTC fork, and at the same time he will probably have huge amounts of BTC in the custodial service (Coinbase), some things become a little clearer.

In addition, we see how the US authorities throw out unsuitable players from the game and secure the ground for the privatization of BTC, and in addition, they slowly start preparing miners to filter transactions. Maybe a few years ago, BTC was a small baby, as Congressman Sherman said, but obviously that has come to an end and the rules of the game will change drastically.

So you admit that Craig Wrong is paying you to troll here? 


Centralized, Unsupported, Scam, Pump and dump, Controversial, Patent troll, Malicious ...  Should we continue?

That's true. Their time and resources are too limited to go after shitcoins that nobody uses. The same reason why they never go after tens of thousands of other similar shitcoins that nobody really uses.

When your dirtbag criminal bosses end up in jail, you might find the money stops flowing.  Now stop trying to promote your worthless shitcoin in an inappropriate part of the forum.

So many users there have lost their jobs because of mixers. And these idiots laughed at me and BSV project

Thank God I have a stable job that no one will take away.

How good it is to be a bsvcian. The authorities will never declare a hunt of our BSV coin.

BSV. Stable. Compliant. Scalable

I feel like this quote for the last 5 years.

But if Bangladesh became best buddies with the USA 🇺🇸 and asked for enforcement aid it would happen.

Basically zero privacy is the governments of the world goal.

The reason for this is so called terrism and hacking theft.

The world is going in a weird space. Too bad this happened.