Topic: Mixers to be banned - page 43. (Read 23083 times)

Maybe, you could consult a lawyer to see if this is a good idea to make up your own rules before the governments do. Does forum have a lawyer?  If not, for the love of Bitcoin, loosen the pocket and pay for consultant. We will all obey the rules of your jurisdiction, if in written form and independently verifiable.

If this battle is lost, then a dictatorship will begin. This cannot be allowed. Where is the right to self-determination? What do “managers” allow themselves to do? What? Did you feel the power in your hands and start getting into people’s pockets? How predictable all this is.
Or maybe the US government should be reminded of the numerous strikes by workers, the creation of hundreds of trade unions that fought against such infringement of human rights and freedoms? Why this total control over every person’s money? Or is everyone already seen as a criminal? How long will this all continue?

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Democracy in the United States of America is slowly dying.
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Can't we discuss mixers? Then came the end of freedom of speech.

How about starting a petition on the forum?

This is called "freedom of speech" in America. Under these rules, you can add anything to the “black list”. How convenient, isn't it?
Moneybags want to control everything. So we got to some mixers and everything connected with them. It may be better to take care of the most pressing matters than to bother with all this. I heard that the states have enough internal problems. So why not start with them?

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What does the First Amendment human rights bill say?

"Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, the right to petition. Prohibition of establishing an official state religion alibi of the presumption of innocence. Guarantees of the reliability of censorship and the accuracy of obtaining the confidentiality of personal information under the rights of freedom of data transfer according to the law of development."

It seems to me that in this case absolutely everything is violated.

Can we consider such a case as discrimination?
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Discrimination is a restriction of human rights and freedoms and/or different treatment of people or social groups on the basis of any characteristic.
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Yes, completely. If a specific official came to the conclusion that each participant (mixer user) is breaking the law, then this is nothing more than a personal interpretation and nothing more. There is no guilt until it is proven in each individual example. Otherwise, we're back to point 1 of the Bill of Rights.

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I ask the author of the topic to submit a poll.
Does banning mixers violate the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights?
Possible answers:
- Yes, it violates
- No, it doesn’t violate
- I find it difficult to answer

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Isn't this our case?
I want to remind democratic countries.

Fascism is an ultranationalist ideology and socio-political movement, as well as the dictatorial regime established on their basis. Fascism is characterized by centralized autocracy, militarism, a rigid social hierarchy, forceful suppression of the opposition and individual freedoms, as well as the desire to mobilize society and total control over society and the economy.

theymos has already stated that all mixer official admin accounts would be banned, and that any associated threads and ANNs will be locked and archived. Lotteries become pointless if the OP is banned.


theymos could be our second Satoshi; hand over the forum to someone in a safer country like NK and live happy after in the U.S without breaking any laws.

Every business is moving to North Korea and now I know why.

I'm never becoming a merit source for speaking against theymos this way right? Isn't this the work of the Sheriff?

On bright hide, i hope mixer will make new innovation where they offer non-custodial privacy-enchanting service. Or maybe they should switch business where they fork Wasabi Wallet and run their own WabiSabi coordinator without any blacklist.


Aside from server, theymos probably also need to stop U.S. based service. Currently Bitcointalk depends on CloudFlare (AFAIK they based on U.S.) to prevent DDoS and other form of attack, so such option would be tall order.


I would say no, especially when it doesn't even break transaction link.

• Without escrow.

• With escrow.

If any of these address is known publicly, it should be to track rest of them.

I agree that mprep should update the rules once the rules are set as far as mentioning mixers or bans are concerned, but I have to ask why does everything have to be explained with every scenario mentioned? Why don't people have common sense? If discussing a mixer isn't allowed and you really feel the need to have the discussion about a certain mixer, then do it via pm.

I couldn't believe he said either one of those things, and indeed he didn't; the exact quote was:


Given the mass accumulation of Bitcoin by Wall Street and the impending Bitcoin ETF, I don't think this would ever happen. Those behemoth funds like BlackRock will make sure that it doesn't happen -- they are too invested in Bitcoin's success. If any "ban bitcoin" legislation ever arises, they will deploy the appropriate lobbying tactics to make sure it never passes. What we will see is the move toward regulated services, which we can see already taking place.

I'm not trying to dismiss this since I see the reasoning, but there are other subforums, such as Digital goods, which is a huge grey zone to me.

I do see announcements of mixers and presumably all cracked accounts at the same level, the first has more pressure by the government than the second.
For example, fraudulent IDs are used to produce "verified" Mastercard/Visa.

If you don't want it to be a dark web, you should consider banning the above as well, though this would have a much bigger impact on the BB.

Hence again, I do understand your decision, and I can imagine it wasn't an easy choice.

That's a very big "if"!

(quote posted without context)

Of course. Bitcointalk isn't a democracy:

You're asking the wrong person: ask your government. My guess is that government works too slow to make a difference here: they're still debating about it long after it ended.

I'm still concerned about phishing sites. But I guess obfuscating the URL to "Kitchenaidxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxbzoijhwpsf.onion" is too much?

Unfortunately, their telegram channel may be deleted or archived. I cannot find it anymore. I don't think theymos is going to reconsider the decision he already made. No matter if Sinbad is coming back or not. The decision will remain the same and unfortunately, you won't be able to promote any mixers anymore. This will be a concern for many users but it's not important at this moment.

We will have to leave the campaign after end of the December. But, I feel like this is not going to end. Bitcointalk is a good market. I feel like they may rebrand and open different service. Let's see.

I think you're mixing things up.

A multi hosting system normally only serves to ensure that the website is always up and running, when something on the server goes down. And we come back to the same thing, to support a website like Bitcointalk, you have to use the best servers in the world, which are in the USA or Europe. You can even use multi hosting, with servers in the USA and Europe, but these types of actions are coordinated between the authorities on both continents.

I recently saw a documentary about Cyberbunker. Take a look, and see how it was possible to take down one of the biggest and best servers on the darkweb.

Note, I am not saying that I agree with the way the authorities act in this field. However, this does not imply that the forum protects itself against possible attacks from the authorities. It's better to continue to have a space to "fight against centralization" than to be left without that space.

The other day I heard a very interesting phrase: "In the 21st century, remaining anonymous is almost impossible. But the more discreet you are, the more easily you can do what you want without being seen."

And I think that's what we want to be, to continue without being visible, so that we can defend what Satoshi created that helps us fight financial centralization. The forum was not created to combat centralization, but to debate the tool that does it. If this forum ceases to exist, this fight may be lost.

@theymos, What ever you do, please don't ban a Bitcoin service entirely, just the illegal services.  Even if you manage to ban all, how will you moderate other networks? We can't control what people might say on telegram or other sites, what if we promote a site and they decide to suddenly add mixer links?
You can't possibly moderate that much of activity, we might as well welcome the idea of a new generation of snitches trying to get people banned by providing links to off forum sites to show that someone shared a link to a site which now is promoting mixers. (cool idea for merit/trust farmers.)

It can hardly look not strange anyway. Different government agencies of different countries say that mixing bitcoins is not illegal per se and they have problems with some exact mixers, we suppose that it is not anything bad per se. So it looks like we are saying that it is okay to use mixers, it is not illegal, but it is forbidden to talk about it on the forum and you will be banned for something not illegal and not bad. I don't know how to make it look not strange.

And partial restrictions look even stranger. Because to find that boundaries we should see what is exactly wrong. Because if all vegetables discussion is banned on the forum it is still strange, but at least consistent. And when it is okay to say that vegetables are healthy food, but I can not say you how to get some for you because it could lead to a ban, it looks much stranger.

We know that banks and investment funds go bankrupt and have problems with authorities on a regular base. Ponzi schemes of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities, Chara bank and in Toronto-Dominion Bank, money laundering in JPMorgan Chase, HSBC, Standard Chartered, Deutsche Bank and Bank of New York Mellon, etc. So staying consistent should we ban discussion about banks and investment funds keeping in mind that they can face with problems with authorities in the future? Banking and investment in not illegal per se, but all that can be used by criminals. And I named some organisations which had some problems with authorities (I didn't link any of their sites, but I could). So how to find correct boundaries?

somehow i find theymos step understandable and i also think it's very important that a big discussion has been sparked here👍
i've just skimmed through a few pages and i don't know whether the following question has already been asked or answered by you

what will happen to the free raffles (such as this ones ^[1], ^[2]) where a card with the logo of a mixer is published as a prize (there are no hidden links or the like), will these also be banned from january 1st?

[1]: [FREE RAFFLE] - Custom UniJoin Card, (S/N 6). Only by invitation!
[2]: [Free Raffle] Exclusive MixTum collectible card №6

Does using or acting as an escrow count as mixing?

Why?/Why not?

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I have observed some exchanges use (what I'm loosely referring to as) a two step wallet where you link a wallet AND the exchange's wallet. You can then shift coins backwards and forwards between the two. Essentially you can mix coins(deposit to one wallet then withdraw from the other).

Will these exchanges be banned too?

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Will discussing methods of how coins could be mixed a banable offence?

It will work if the purpose of the ban is to protect the forum or disclaim responsibility. This is exactly why plagiarism of images is allowed, but plagiarism of avatars is not allowed.

In general, from reading the comments, it seems that it is a desire from @theymos. Is there any way to prepare another wording for this ban and vote on it from the forum community?

Without mixers, there are many other campaigns for you. You only need time to see other gates open for you. You need patience, that's it.

Your account was created in 2017 and it means you have gone through two bear market especially the 2018 and 2019 bear market. I believe you know how very little signature campaigns and available slots for each in 2018 or 2019. The current bear market since 2021, 2022 and lasts till 2023 is actually much much better than 2018 or 2019, with so many campaigns.

If you exclude mixer campaigns, there are still more campaigns for you to join than 4 or 5 years ago. Think about it, don't think pessimistic and don't only think about yourself.

You need jobs in Bitcointalk? First you need the forum to be lively, not a seized one.

In the meantime till Jan 1, 2024, use some time to read Welcome message and stop complaining about it. The decision is made, and it is what it is. Even signature is a privilege, not a right!

This will undoubtedly be a huge blow to custodial mixing services. I always expected these businesses to become obsolete but thought it would be because decentralized solutions would become superior in terms of convenience for the user, not because of coercive government actions against those providing or seeking a reasonable level of privacy. Hopefully this will be the motivation needed for adoption and development of privacy enhancing protocols resistant to government censorship.

If there is a door to be kicked down, the authorities will eventually kick it down. That's the problem with centralization, which means the solution is to eliminate centralization (like what we did with Bitcoin). However, there isn't any solid progress in developing decentralized social networks, forums, etc. which is the unfortunate part.

This is the weird part to me since by definition these are also mixers and where functionality is concerned there is no difference between these and the centralized mixer mixing coins!

Exactly, the forum just bans the talk of it and the endorsement of it but that don't exactly mean that we are outright disallowing the use of it, it's just that the forum doesn't want to be any part of their activity. I guess the Satoshi of crypto mixers hasn't been born yet so for now, we just have to wait until then and do cat and mouse chase with the authorities for using crypto mixers to protect our privacy. I just hope that when you said push back against the dystopian policies of our respective government, the people that you're talking about is going to push back.

So when must I alter this ad I am doing Dec 31 works?