Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 131.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on June 21, 2023, 05:31:38 PM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 21, 2023, 05:05:17 PM

Bernie Ecclestone and FIa said in the past that they will never introduce a double manufacturer for the tires.
IT is a big safety problem having 2 team building tires for creating an advantage for cars.

I think they will follow their rule and we will have only 1, Pirelli OR Bridgestone, and not AND.

I also don't believ that 2 tyre suppliers is possible thing. We already had 2 suppliers at the same time in past - Michelin and Bridgestone and it wasn't always good thing. Just remember contraversial Indinapolis GP in 2005

That's true, 2 tire suppliers has never been a good thing in races, and it will never be possible to do that in future due to safety concerns. Well, yes the 2005's case is a clear one to demonstrate that how risky it is to use the 2 tires which aren't suitable for the conditions of a track. Such tires could cause damages and the chances of accidents increase to very high levels. I don't think that such tires could be beneficial to win the race unless the weather and track conditions support those.

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Quote from: tokeweed on June 22, 2023, 07:58:55 AM

Quote from: LTU_btc on June 21, 2023, 05:31:38 PM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 21, 2023, 05:05:17 PM

Bernie Ecclestone and FIa said in the past that they will never introduce a double manufacturer for the tires.
IT is a big safety problem having 2 team building tires for creating an advantage for cars.

I think they will follow their rule and we will have only 1, Pirelli OR Bridgestone, and not AND.

I also don't believ that 2 tyre suppliers is possible thing. We already had 2 suppliers at the same time in past - Michelin and Bridgestone and it wasn't always good thing. Just remember contraversial Indinapolis GP in 2005

I made a post trying to remember who the two suppliers were during the Schumacher - Ferrari era during the 2000's then I saw your post.

But yeah, it was Michelin and Bridgestone. And the problem as always in F1 is it's too mired with politics... Not really sure what went on during the 2005 United States GP but I'm pretty sure one manufacturer couldn't handle the competition so they started to use their connections at the FIA and it all went political. Tsk tsk... :/

Those were great times as Bridgestone were great tires to use in cold and rainy weather while Michelin excelled in really hot environments so even when the cars had difference the tires sometimes in different weather circumstances made the races look a bit more beautiful than usual.I think what is needed right now in F1 to add to the competition is to leave a free choice to all car manufacturers who are racing in F1 to choose any tire provider they see fit and to not limit one provider to this number of teams,free market means free competition but in FIA right now must be the politics who decide everything and we know everywhere politics is in not good things come out of it.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on June 21, 2023, 05:31:38 PM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 21, 2023, 05:05:17 PM

Bernie Ecclestone and FIa said in the past that they will never introduce a double manufacturer for the tires.
IT is a big safety problem having 2 team building tires for creating an advantage for cars.

I think they will follow their rule and we will have only 1, Pirelli OR Bridgestone, and not AND.

I also don't believ that 2 tyre suppliers is possible thing. We already had 2 suppliers at the same time in past - Michelin and Bridgestone and it wasn't always good thing. Just remember contraversial Indinapolis GP in 2005

I made a post trying to remember who the two suppliers were during the Schumacher - Ferrari era during the 2000's then I saw your post.

But yeah, it was Michelin and Bridgestone. And the problem as always in F1 is it's too mired with politics... Not really sure what went on during the 2005 United States GP but I'm pretty sure one manufacturer couldn't handle the competition so they started to use their connections at the FIA and it all went political. Tsk tsk... :/

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 21, 2023, 05:05:17 PM

Bernie Ecclestone and FIa said in the past that they will never introduce a double manufacturer for the tires.
IT is a big safety problem having 2 team building tires for creating an advantage for cars.

I think they will follow their rule and we will have only 1, Pirelli OR Bridgestone, and not AND.

I also don't believ that 2 tyre suppliers is possible thing. We already had 2 suppliers at the same time in past - Michelin and Bridgestone and it wasn't always good thing. Just remember contraversial Indinapolis GP in 2005

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Quote from: Distraction on June 21, 2023, 03:29:48 PM

Can Perez really be the kind of driver Red Bull wants now? l think he isn't as good as he needs to be just like most people share the same idea. The team must be also waiting for him to make a bigger contribution to constructors' championship to secure their title easier. But I don't feel like they want a competitive driver to Verstappen now.

Because Verstappen wants to be the number one and he wouldn't like a driver who is as competitive as himself right beside him in the team. Red Bull also wouldn't like to risk Verstappen's presence in the team by doing such thing I guess. Otherwise I would really love to see a competitive rival to Verstappen to make it more fun to watch. Grin

Alonso comes to my mind directly about that but I'm just daydreaming. I guess there wouldn't be such deal like Perez out Alonso in.

I also think Red Bull don't seem to be wishing to have two title contenders at the same time. Because there is a hierarchy in this team. Verstappen is their number one driver and he will stay that way. After witnessing his high level of performance it wouldn't be meaningful for Red Bull to suddenly decide to bring another title contender to the team.

Therefore the probability of seeing Alonso there is not much high in my opinion. Alonso is still competitive and he still wants to be a world champion once again. But he will need to do this with Aston Martin or maybe another team in the future.

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Bernie Ecclestone and FIa said in the past that they will never introduce a double manufacturer for the tires.
IT is a big safety problem having 2 team building tires for creating an advantage for cars.

I think they will follow their rule and we will have only 1, Pirelli OR Bridgestone, and not AND.

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Can Perez really be the kind of driver Red Bull wants now? l think he isn't as good as he needs to be just like most people share the same idea. The team must be also waiting for him to make a bigger contribution to constructors' championship to secure their title easier. But I don't feel like they want a competitive driver to Verstappen now.

Because Verstappen wants to be the number one and he wouldn't like a driver who is as competitive as himself right beside him in the team. Red Bull also wouldn't like to risk Verstappen's presence in the team by doing such thing I guess. Otherwise I would really love to see a competitive rival to Verstappen to make it more fun to watch. Grin

Alonso comes to my mind directly about that but I'm just daydreaming. I guess there wouldn't be such deal like Perez out Alonso in.

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Quote from: alegotardo on June 20, 2023, 07:22:10 PM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 20, 2023, 04:57:54 PM

Side rumros for 2026.

Pirelli will be not the only Tier manufacturer who will ask FIA to create the tires for the car.

Another giant will be in the game it is not known yet but the rumor is for Bridgestone.

I think we can already consider this as something much more accurate than just a rumor.

According to the BBC, Bridgestone would have effectively submitted a proposal to participate in the choice of tire suppliers, which would consequently have the responsibility to serve all other F1 teams.

I've been researching here, and the Japanese manufacturer has been in F1 between 1997 and 2010 and now they would have been "convinced" to return to the category mainly by the growing exposure in the USA. Recalling that currently Bridgestone already supplies tires to IndyCar through the Firestone brand.

In the last competition it had, if I remember correctly Bridgestone had given up because it had not accepted the posture of manufacturing tires with the posture of "faster wear", what could have convinced them otherwise this time?

That is actually a good thing for F1 because without competition Pirelli seems to be doing not such a great job right now. They have shown time and time after again that their estimates are not that great and teams failed because of their estimates. Teams who saw Hard tires would do better in certain conditions ending up being slower even compared to run down medium tires were getting the short end of the stick.

This is why getting a competition is actually a good thing because it allows the teams to actually have the estimates they need to have, it allows them to be better. I think this will benefit everyone, even if the same company continues, they will do better job not to lose their business opportunity in this case and the marketing they are getting from it.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 20, 2023, 04:57:54 PM

Side rumros for 2026.

Pirelli will be not the only Tier manufacturer who will ask FIA to create the tires for the car.

Another giant will be in the game it is not known yet but the rumor is for Bridgestone.

I think we can already consider this as something much more accurate than just a rumor.

According to the BBC, Bridgestone would have effectively submitted a proposal to participate in the choice of tire suppliers, which would consequently have the responsibility to serve all other F1 teams.

I've been researching here, and the Japanese manufacturer has been in F1 between 1997 and 2010 and now they would have been "convinced" to return to the category mainly by the growing exposure in the USA. Recalling that currently Bridgestone already supplies tires to IndyCar through the Firestone brand.

In the last competition it had, if I remember correctly Bridgestone had given up because it had not accepted the posture of manufacturing tires with the posture of "faster wear", what could have convinced them otherwise this time?

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 20, 2023, 04:57:54 PM

Side rumros for 2026.

Pirelli will be not the only Tier manufacturer who will ask FIA to create the tires for the car.

Another giant will be in the game it is not known yet but the rumor is for Bridgestone.

I really want to take back the two or more tyre manufacters, i know this call its again to be only one.

I also think we need to bring back some fun with tyre and strategy based, because now its really boring, only one very know change of tyres in the whole race. Medium and Hard nothing more.

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Side rumros for 2026.

Pirelli will be not the only Tier manufacturer who will ask FIA to create the tires for the car.

Another giant will be in the game it is not known yet but the rumor is for Bridgestone.

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Quote from: Velvet78 on June 19, 2023, 04:21:05 PM

I agree about the change in F1's popularity depending on the competition level. Whenever there is a hot title competition in a season there is much bigger interest in the sport. But in times only one driver dominates a season by a huge gap many people start to get bored of watching the races and stop doing it later.

That season with an incredible competition between Verstappen and Hamilton until the last moments of the season was really amazing. FIA made a very huge mistake there as well about safety car rules though. But we can't bring back that time unfortunately. It is always going to be called as a debatable ending for that season.

I think we should realize it's more than just about Max winning, we had a near decade long Hamilton and Mercedes domination and f1 was fun back then as well, we have watched a lot of races and hoped some things would change with some teams, maybe not be the first team but at least win something. That means we are not going to really end up with quitting now just because Max is winning, it's the same thing.

Sometimes, some people and their cars are just so dominant that the first position is guaranteed, back when Hamilton was dominating, Bottas didn't really finish second every single race, sometimes he had trouble too, just as Perez. I think it's important to look at the other three teams and further, like how Mclaren finally did alright this race, probably biggest upgrade of any team.

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Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on June 17, 2023, 01:16:15 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on June 17, 2023, 07:32:34 AM

~snip~

Anyway, what do you guys think of Hamilton to finish on the podium at 2.10? Mercedes might have made a breakthrough in car development.

Now I see this odd as 3.00 and he is sharing the same odd with Leclerc to go for podium. Honestly it would be worth giving a shot. In FP2, Mercedes drivers seemed really fast and took the first and second places. FP3 was way different though but the track condition wasn't the same. On a wet track Mercedes drivers couldn't be effective enough.

Maybe this is a sign that Mercedes drivers may not be able to have a good placement in the race if we have a wet track during most part of the race. But of course it is still an FP session so it is better not to be very confident about such thing. If it rains during the race this track can be much more challenging for the drivers. I think we can see many DNFs.

I should've waited before making the bet then. Cheesy

But I don't mind, it was just a small bet for fun so I'd be entertained to watch the race. But then I ended up not watching it as I had a couple of friends who wanted to meet up for some drinks. Lol.

2023 F1 Austrian GP Schedule
Friday 30 June Practice 1 13:30-14:30
Friday 30 June Qualifying 17:00-18:00
Saturday 1 July Sprint Shootout 12:30-13:30
Saturday 1 July Sprint 16:30-17:30
Sunday 2 July Race 15:00

^ A little change of pace. There's a sprint race.

I don't mind the new format as much anymore.

Anyway, early lines have Verstappen to win at 1.29. :/

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Jorge Martin was absolutely outstanding in finishing the race at Germany's Sachsenring last Sunday. How could it not be, he who was able to win the Sprint Race was also able to win the race on Sunday by continuing to fight when he was under pressure from Pecco Bagnaia who even touched at corner 13, which is the last corner of the circuit before entering the Last Lap.

But Jorge Martin kept calm with extraordinary consistency until he touched the finish line even though he began to fight fiercely with Pecco Bagnaia five laps before the end of the race. That's the thrill of racing at Sachsenring Germany this season when there are two riders using motorbikes with the same specs even though the teams are different, and this week the MotoGP race will be held again at the Dutch Assen circuit. Hopefully the race there can also be more exciting than the race in Germany.

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I agree about the change in F1's popularity depending on the competition level. Whenever there is a hot title competition in a season there is much bigger interest in the sport. But in times only one driver dominates a season by a huge gap many people start to get bored of watching the races and stop doing it later.

That season with an incredible competition between Verstappen and Hamilton until the last moments of the season was really amazing. FIA made a very huge mistake there as well about safety car rules though. But we can't bring back that time unfortunately. It is always going to be called as a debatable ending for that season.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on June 18, 2023, 03:26:52 PM

How it's different from last year when there was no doubts about Verstappen title in the middle of summer? And in over 20 last years probably more than half seasons there was one dominating guy -Schumacher in Ferrari, Vettel in Red Bull, Hamilton in Mercedes and now Verstappen. One team dominance isn't good for F1, but it's such reality.

I'm talking about 2021, the last championship where the champion is determined in the last race. With the hype at the time, more and more new viewers joined the Formula 1 world, but when they saw the races they were watching now, they gradually left Formula 1 again. As long as it's not competitive, there is no point in watching. Unless the FIA can find a solution to this, F1 will continue to be stuck in a narrow space where the rich go to see each other.

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Quote from: retreat on June 18, 2023, 09:15:20 PM

Quote from: Zackgeno96 on June 18, 2023, 03:02:32 PM

Well, another victory for Verstappen. This isn't exciting anymore, is it? He now holds the record together with Senna, but that record is different from the moment it was measured at the Brazilian. A race without Verstappen would make it all more fun and exciting. Of course all credits to Verstappen, because only the very best in this sport can win his races with great force majeure. The rest is so behind every race that it doesn't really seem like a race. I think the rest are already happy with a 2nd place. Only teammate Perez seems to be the only one who can win a game every now and then this season.

Well, I quite enjoyed this race, even though from the start I already knew that Max would win again, it was the race behind him that was quite interesting. Especially when Alonso and Hamilton competed for P2 and Albon, who held 5 people behind him for half the race, was very exciting to watch. And what's even more interesting is how Ferrari's strategy managed to bring Leclerc and Sainz to the top and that's very good. So this is a very good race in my opinion compared to the previous races.

I think Albon deserved to be driver of the day in yesterday race as he made sure only thanks to his driving skills to keep behind better cars than Williams and in a track like this one where DRS gives you a big upper hand the fact that he manage to keep behind better cars means that this guy deserves again to be racing in a top team like Redbull where did race for little time a couple of seasons back.I think he can be a good fit for Mercedes when Hamilton leaves or for Ferrari if Leclerc is not happy with them and moves on to another team,I am sure Albon can bring us a lot of good racing based on what he is doing with Williams which is the weakest car on the grid.

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Quote from: BitcoinAccepted on June 18, 2023, 04:23:22 PM

Hamilton has not yet won a single race, but he still speaks of a good season. This is mainly because the performance is now measured against that of last year, and last year was the year in which Mercedes had to close the difference again with RedBull, which did not work at all. But the question we can already ask: What will F1 look like next season? In this way it does not seem that there is only 1 driver who can get close to Verstappen, does it? at least, it seems that way at the moment. And Perez is a nice wingman for Verstappen, I think.

I'm sure he is still not very relieved deeply but he wants to be happy about the development in his car at least. Because the current look is definitely way better than the previous season in general. He still can't catch up with Verstappen even a bit though but it is valid when it comes to the other drivers as well. Red Bull is just too dominant.

Aston Martin and Mercedes are the second fastest cars on the grid these days. He must be still happy to be on podium despite not being able to overtake Alonso at the end. Because this is just Hamilton's second podium in a row which is a serious improvement.

I really liked Ferrari in this race. For the first time they didn't mess up and did good with strategies. The drivers had a solid run on mediums for a long time and gained so many positions at the end of the race as well.

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Quote from: Zackgeno96 on June 18, 2023, 03:02:32 PM

Well, another victory for Verstappen. This isn't exciting anymore, is it? He now holds the record together with Senna, but that record is different from the moment it was measured at the Brazilian. A race without Verstappen would make it all more fun and exciting. Of course all credits to Verstappen, because only the very best in this sport can win his races with great force majeure. The rest is so behind every race that it doesn't really seem like a race. I think the rest are already happy with a 2nd place. Only teammate Perez seems to be the only one who can win a game every now and then this season.

Well, I quite enjoyed this race, even though from the start I already knew that Max would win again, it was the race behind him that was quite interesting. Especially when Alonso and Hamilton competed for P2 and Albon, who held 5 people behind him for half the race, was very exciting to watch. And what's even more interesting is how Ferrari's strategy managed to bring Leclerc and Sainz to the top and that's very good. So this is a very good race in my opinion compared to the previous races.

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Hamilton talked big about overtaking Alonso and keeping it that way until the end of the race. But in reality we saw how Alonso drove brilliantly ahead of him for a long time and got past the finish line like that as well. Of course there were times they overtook each other but the winner was Alonso in the end. Alonso said that Hamilton didn't leave him alone even for one lap. Grin

This was another great race for Alonso. Since the beginning of the season we have been seeing him being on podium in nearly every race. We don't see the same competitiveness from Stroll for example. Alonso has a lot of experience and he is an F1 champion too of course. This is just the car he was wishing for to be more competitive for top positions.

Topic: Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 131. (Read 141568 times)