Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 133.

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Quote from: retreat on July 05, 2023, 08:58:03 PM

Quote from: Distraction on July 05, 2023, 03:19:57 PM

Red Bull is about to sign a deal with a really good Ferrari engineer. Mercedes was going to sign him instead but Red Bull intervened the deal swiftly after hearing about it. This means that he will bring some important data of Ferrari to Red Bull also. This can carry Red Bull to a more advantageous situation as they would have more knowledge about what they can do to get ahead of Ferrari more.

I don't know how stronger Red Bull will get really. They are already very solid and far ahead of Mercedes in the standings now. This is even Red Bull's limited upgraded version I mean. If they didn't get any punishment for last season then I can't imagine how much stronger they would have been.

Red Bull is desperate to dominate, huh? even they were willing to intervene in the agreement that should be done by Mercedes. this may be a fairly important agreement in the future for Red Bull in dominating the race.
And I don't think it would be surprising if Ferrari would be able to get Red Bull engineers to be able to fix some of their problems, like revenge, or would they not? let's see how Ferrari responds to this.

At some point RedBull domination will end no matter what. Personally I don't think Verstappen will get his 4th championship next year because F1 is already mega boring with only a few races that sparked some adrenaline into viewers. Also , Aston Martin , McLaren and especially Ferrari will put up a fight next year against RedBull and if the rumors are true , there will be an "exchange" of engineers between RedBull and Ferrari as both teams are hunting some engineers from the other team so that should be nice to watch how it will develop.

Revenge or not , Ferrari deserves to be on top once again and I hope RedBull won't have a chance to dominate for a long period of time , same as Mercedes because in the last 13 years , we only had 2 winning cars : Redbull and Mercedes so I think it's time to move on.

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Quote from: retreat on July 05, 2023, 08:58:03 PM

Quote from: Distraction on July 05, 2023, 03:19:57 PM

Red Bull is about to sign a deal with a really good Ferrari engineer. Mercedes was going to sign him instead but Red Bull intervened the deal swiftly after hearing about it. This means that he will bring some important data of Ferrari to Red Bull also. This can carry Red Bull to a more advantageous situation as they would have more knowledge about what they can do to get ahead of Ferrari more.

I don't know how stronger Red Bull will get really. They are already very solid and far ahead of Mercedes in the standings now. This is even Red Bull's limited upgraded version I mean. If they didn't get any punishment for last season then I can't imagine how much stronger they would have been.

Red Bull is desperate to dominate, huh? even they were willing to intervene in the agreement that should be done by Mercedes. this may be a fairly important agreement in the future for Red Bull in dominating the race.
And I don't think it would be surprising if Ferrari would be able to get Red Bull engineers to be able to fix some of their problems, like revenge, or would they not? let's see how Ferrari responds to this.

@retreat I don’t think that he can carry any secret over but he can suggest more improvements but currently I feel that it’s almost perfect for Redbull and thus I hope that they don’t break something that isn’t broken. Furthermore instead of revenge Ferrari needs to work on fixing their issue’s but if they indeed manage to poach rival engineers and those engineers end up fixing their issues then it’ll be a really sweet revenge.

retreat

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Quote from: Distraction on July 05, 2023, 03:19:57 PM

Red Bull is about to sign a deal with a really good Ferrari engineer. Mercedes was going to sign him instead but Red Bull intervened the deal swiftly after hearing about it. This means that he will bring some important data of Ferrari to Red Bull also. This can carry Red Bull to a more advantageous situation as they would have more knowledge about what they can do to get ahead of Ferrari more.

I don't know how stronger Red Bull will get really. They are already very solid and far ahead of Mercedes in the standings now. This is even Red Bull's limited upgraded version I mean. If they didn't get any punishment for last season then I can't imagine how much stronger they would have been.

Red Bull is desperate to dominate, huh? even they were willing to intervene in the agreement that should be done by Mercedes. this may be a fairly important agreement in the future for Red Bull in dominating the race.
And I don't think it would be surprising if Ferrari would be able to get Red Bull engineers to be able to fix some of their problems, like revenge, or would they not? let's see how Ferrari responds to this.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on July 05, 2023, 03:46:05 PM

F1 today announced calendar for 2024 season:
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1676584214559444993
24 races, return of China for the first time since 2019 and races in Bahrain and Saudia Arabia will be held on Saturday because of Ramadan. Considering that we have 24 races - most ever, it's a bit strange that we have two 1 month breaks - as usual, summer break between Belgium and Netherlands and then between Singapore and USA. Potentially it can be another month break if Chinese GP will be canceled because of Covid again. Waiting whole month for race is just too long.

Yeah, Idk why they don't just go in the southern hemisphere of the globe during the European summer.

It should not be hot in Brazil for example

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F1 today announced calendar for 2024 season:

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1676584214559444993
24 races, return of China for the first time since 2019 and races in Bahrain and Saudia Arabia will be held on Saturday because of Ramadan. Considering that we have 24 races - most ever, it's a bit strange that we have two 1 month breaks - as usual, summer break between Belgium and Netherlands and then between Singapore and USA. Potentially it can be another month break if Chinese GP will be canceled because of Covid again. Waiting whole month for race is just too long.

Distraction

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Red Bull is about to sign a deal with a really good Ferrari engineer. Mercedes was going to sign him instead but Red Bull intervened the deal swiftly after hearing about it. This means that he will bring some important data of Ferrari to Red Bull also. This can carry Red Bull to a more advantageous situation as they would have more knowledge about what they can do to get ahead of Ferrari more.

I don't know how stronger Red Bull will get really. They are already very solid and far ahead of Mercedes in the standings now. This is even Red Bull's limited upgraded version I mean. If they didn't get any punishment for last season then I can't imagine how much stronger they would have been.

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Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on July 03, 2023, 01:19:26 PM

I think the best drivers of this race were Perez, Sainz and Norris. Especially Perez's rise was really worth watching.

So... Ferrari really saw a huge improvement in the performance of their car driven by Leclerc this past weekend, and I believe a lot of that is due to the upgrade they carried out with the new floor and front wing. But, Leclerc has already said that his car still has a weakness in straight line speed, which could possibly expose the team at the British GP at Silverstone.

From what I've been reading, this new Ferrari design was thought not only to increase the downforce but also to make the SF-23 more "soft" (I don't know how to explain it/what term to use).

Anyway... Initially it seems to me that the update gave the impression of having worked as expected, as Leclerc easily won the second position on Friday, half a tenth of pole Max Verstappen, while Carlos Sainz shone on Sunday, but I think Leclerc will need to remain cautious for the British GP, held at a high-downforce circuit like Silverstone, and could be a real test of the evolution of the Italian team.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on July 02, 2023, 05:40:51 PM

Well, it's simply ridiculous and as I said, they should find solution for it. Seems that putting gravel trap or higher kerbs isn't an option because of MotoGP.

The only solution is to use higher Kerbs for Formula 1 and remove the kerbs for MOTO GP.

But they are lazy and they don't want to do it, it is not so high expense for them.

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Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on July 03, 2023, 01:19:26 PM

I think the best drivers of this race were Perez, Sainz and Norris. Especially Perez's rise was really worth watching.

I always dont know what to think about Perez comes back, because if you think about how dominant his car is, make not so worth that comeback. I mean yes he is a good driver, but i think most of the field with that car can make de same.

Sainz its not being lucky, the bad pitstop and after the sanction.

ILuckyGuyI

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I agree that this is one of the best tracks for spectators. Because it is much more available for overtakes compared to many other tracks in the calendar. I still don't remember drivers having a this big problem in 2022 Austrian GP though. As far as I know there is no change in any area of the track so I wonder what the reason behind is.

Hamilton was the most unsatisfied driver with the track limits during the race. He indicated that quite many times. Grin

This race didn't end well for him also after dropping behind Russell according to the final official results.

I think the best drivers of this race were Perez, Sainz and Norris. Especially Perez's rise was really worth watching.

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Quote from: Pulsar77 on July 03, 2023, 04:08:31 AM

This has been the most awkward race in the season. I heard that there were 83 penalties given to drivers on this race weekend. This is really horrible and a sign of there is a need for change. I think they should review the track again and do something about the turns at which drivers are struggling the most. Because this makes the race really annoying for drivers. I can't say that I'm very contented with this situation either. We have seen FIA taking action on some tracks before.

Maybe they can do the same for Austria track as well to make the race weekend more enjoyable. I still enjoyed the race though as I watched so many overtakes. But this track limits situation is really serious.

The drivers are the ones who were overdoing it in their favor so FIA has got nothing to change in this track,drivers should have been more cautious in those corners where they were continuously warned via radio messages from their team to be careful exactly in these turns.

This track is one of the most beautiful ones with 3 DRS zones which consist near half of the race with DRS open and that is why you and all of us saw that big number of overtakes,they were 90% all thanks due to DRS system or this in normal conditions without DRS would not produce that many overtakes.

Pulsar77

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This has been the most awkward race in the season. I heard that there were 83 penalties given to drivers on this race weekend. This is really horrible and a sign of there is a need for change. I think they should review the track again and do something about the turns at which drivers are struggling the most. Because this makes the race really annoying for drivers. I can't say that I'm very contented with this situation either. We have seen FIA taking action on some tracks before.

Maybe they can do the same for Austria track as well to make the race weekend more enjoyable. I still enjoyed the race though as I watched so many overtakes. But this track limits situation is really serious.

retreat

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on July 02, 2023, 01:14:07 PM

Another easy win for RBR, but as I said earlier they can win all the races this year.
Ferrari is in a decent status now but still far away.

Also, Mclaren did a big step ahead, keep in mind only Norris got the updates.

Mercedes and Aston Martin are losing contact with the top of the grid, again.

Even though it was a fairly easy victory for RBR, they didn't get it very easily. Ferrari provided resistance which I would say was quite good, but still the RBR car's performance cannot be denied, seen when Ferrari was unable to catch up to RBR on a straight track. But still, in my opinion, the Austrian GP is a race that I say is one of the best this year, even though it is quite problematic, I still enjoy it.

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I don't remember the previous Austrian GP as this much problematic. It looked like this time there were many more deleted laps than before. Sainz's race really turned into a nightmare after these results. But not only the time penalty he got caused this to happen of course. Ferrari really destroyed his race by a really bad pit.

Norris and Alonso were really in profit after the latest version of the results. Normally especially Alonso didn't have an impressive race. I'm happy for Norris because he was really having issues with maintaining a good performance in races despite having a solid result in qualifying.

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FIA released final classification of Austrian GP, there is lot of difference from results that we saw immediately after race, but Top 3 remains not affected.

Quote

1. Max Verstappen
2. Charles Leclerc
3. Sergio Perez
4. Lando Norris (up from P5)
5. Fernando Alonso (up from P6)
6. Carlos Sainz (demoted from P4)
7. George Russell (up from P8)
8. Lewis Hamilton (demoted from P7)
9. Lance Stroll (up from P10)
10. Pierre Gasly (demoted from P9)
11. Alex Albon (penalty, but no movement in position)
12. Zhou Guanyu (up from P14)
13. Logan Sargeant (penalty, but no movement in position)
14. Esteban Ocon (demoted from P12)
15. Valtteri Bottas (up from P16)
16. Oscar Piastri (up from P17)
17. Nyck de Vries (demoted from P15)
18. Kevin Magnussen (up from P19)
19. Yuki Tsunoda (demoted from P18)

Well, it's simply ridiculous and as I said, they should find solution for it. Seems that putting gravel trap or higher kerbs isn't an option because of MotoGP.

ILuckyGuyI

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Indeed Aston Martin and Mercedes had a bad day. Hamilton was complaining about how difficult to turn the car on this track during the race. He got so many warnings which turned into a time penalty later on. Even Toto Wolff felt the need of talking to Hamilton about focusing on his race instead of repeating the same thing over and over again. Grin

Ferrari did their thing again and screwed it up for Sainz. At least Leclerc had a good race despite the basic pit errors. But Sainz was really deserving to be on podium in this race. His defending against Perez was just incredible and he was still almost getting the 3rd place for himself. Sainz was really pissed at his team about not staying out for longer during safety car also.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on July 02, 2023, 02:33:20 PM

It also looked a bit strange when they called both drivers to pits during VSC when they were so close to each other. And both these pit stops were such long, over 4 seconds. Sainz wasn't happy about this decision at all.

They are often not happy with the decision but this is just a driver thing, also Hamilton and Max are not happy when the team does the calls.

Drivers has not all the data so they can't see what is the best thing for them, with the timers of other drivers or the GPS position if they do or not do a Pit Stop.

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Quote from: swogerino on July 02, 2023, 01:24:47 PM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on July 02, 2023, 01:14:07 PM

Another easy win for RBR, but as I said earlier they can win all the races this year.
Ferrari is in a decent status now but still far away.

Also, Mclaren did a big step ahead, keep in mind only Norris got the updates.

Mercedes and Aston Martin are losing contact with the top of the grid, again.

Interesting fact how Mercedes and Aston Martin were contending to be the second best car after Redbull are now losing track race after race,do they work there or don't work at all?I believe they do but they have been doing the wrong works compared to other teams.

Aston Martin actually made pretty decent runs on the previous GPs,, but whatever they're doing right now doesn't seem to work at all. Mercedes however is still doing a good job, although I believe they could have pushed for more had they been calling the pit stops at great timings and not too early or too late. They got a car that has been upgraded quite well but they aren't converting that fact into something useful for the team, unfortunately.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on July 02, 2023, 02:12:01 PM

The strategy was probably a little mistake but I'm not sure about it, since Perez was going 1 second faster of Ferraris at that time.

Anyway, Sainz lost his podium for his faults with the track limits and the 5 seconds penalty.

It also looked a bit strange when they called both drivers to pits during VSC when they were so close to each other. And both these pit stops were such long, over 4 seconds. Sainz wasn't happy about this decision at all.

Quote from: püsür on July 02, 2023, 12:06:09 PM

I agree that F1 getting more and more boring and personally I feel nostalgic about some old times but it is what it is. Yes, no one is happy with such uncompetitiveness, but this is something that is inherent in this sport. F1 is not just about piloting, it is also a competitive arena that includes teamwork, tools and business development performance.

During race I thought about era when Hamilton dominated - it was also boring but not that much. There was Rosber who gave fight for him or Ferrari who managed to stay in figh at least until summer break. And time from time we had other teams winning races, now we are seriously considering that Red Bull can win all races this season. But yeah, it's not problem of Red Bull that their competitors can't build car which would be able to fight with them

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Quote from: swogerino on July 02, 2023, 01:24:47 PM

Ferrari did a decent race but as usual the team strategy hold them back from being 2nd and 3rd,not that is a big problem being 2nd and 4th but just saying and emphasizing that even when the car is decent and the drivers are behaving well by doing great drives the team management made a bad call in my opinion for the type of tires in the first pit stop,they got again for the mediums which was the move that "compromised" their race,nevertheless a great show by Ferrari as for Redbull we already know they are in another planet.

Interesting fact how Mercedes and Aston Martin were contending to be the second best car after Redbull are now losing track race after race,do they work there or don't work at all?I believe they do but they have been doing the wrong works compared to other teams.

The strategy was probably a little mistake but I'm not sure about it, since Perez was going 1 second faster of Ferraris at that time.

Anyway, Sainz lost his podium for his faults with the track limits and the 5 seconds penalty.

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