Topic: Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 336. (Read 141876 times)

^  I’m just saying if it’s all about the money.  But if Toto Wolff is fighting for what’s right then I agree with coinlocket$.  It’s questionable letting the lapped cars pass the safety car.  They should have been released as is and waved a blue flag all around.  

And coinlocket$, everybody itt knows that you’re a huge Ferrari fan.  So no need to defend yourself.  I was a Ferrari fan too...  During all those years when Vettel drove for the team.  

I saw this Instagram story and I don't judge him for being this happy definitely. Because the thing he cares about the most is the team and it is totally normal. Like you said, if Hamilton won the race and became the champion then all the money earned by this championship were going to be Hamilton's. Toto Wolff is free to be this happy about winning the Constructor's Championship.

If the problem is about money, Mercedes won the constructor’s championship, the money won there will to the team.  In the driver’s championship the bonus money will go only to Hamilton.  So if it’s all about the money, I don’t think Toto Wolff gives two effs after how many of their appeals were rejected or will be rejected.

He seems very happy winning the constructor’s championship if you ask me...  

I check Instagram of F1 daily and I follow all of the drivers and some team directors there but what I see missing is that Lewis Hamilton is quiet during this time,he is probably thinking about the season that just ended and what he can do to become for the eight time World Champion next year,it won't be easy with Russell as teammate and Verstappen as opponent.Meanwhile all other drivers are posting positive vibes about how their season was and how many points they scored.It looks like Hamilton is already thinking about the 2022 Championship.

Yes, it is quite clear. They broke two rules in order to ensure Max won. If they'd only broken one rule, either a) all lapped cars overtake, instead of some, or b) safety car goes in at the end of the following lap, not immediately... then there wouldn't have been time to resume, and the race would have finished under safety car. The only way they could get Max to win was to break both rules and also keep everyone out on track. In fact initially they said lapped cars could not overtake... but then realised (perhaps under pressure from Horner on the radio) that if they did that, then Max wouldn't catch Lewis. They not only broke both rules, they also went back on a decision they'd just made.

And the reason about "we wanted to let them race" rings hollow... if they wanted that, then red flag it as they have done in the very recent past, let everyone get new tyres on, and then have a few laps of honest racing. It's quite clear that what they actually wanted was a new champion, to try to get some new interest in the sport, because it's boring if the same person and same team wins every year. Engineering a situation where you have one driver on fresh softs and another on very old hards, and saying we will let them battle it out is utterly ludicrous to anyone with even a basic knowledge of the sport... no way in hell Lewis could hold off Max for a lap in that situation.



Yes. Mercedes may or may not appeal, but it's not likely the result will be changed now. It's not a great look for the sport. Many people will not recognise Max as the champion, and even in the very unlikely event that the decision was reversed, many would not recognise Lewis as champion now either.

Personally I would welcome a new champion after so many years of Hamilton winning every time... but I just can't see Max as the world champion, because he didn't win the title, it was taken from the actual winner and given to him just to create some interest. So we have this weird limbo now.

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Edit: I've just been reminded of this, too:


 

It is talked about that Mercedes may not even appeal anymore. There is a good line in contract for FIA that states if the Race Director believes that it is the safest way, he could ignore the rules and make up a new decision on the spot. Which means that we are talking about Masi being able to let only 5 cars overtake the safety car and keep others behind, that is literally against the rules in the handbook but at the same rule book it states Masi can do whatever he wants.

Yes, that is abuse of power and yes that shows that there are some needs for better rules and there needs to be less involvement of Race Director that end up deciding on the winner. But from how Toto managed to have fun that night and how Bottas was fine, it is all looking like in the end they won't care and let the be rules be rules and focus on next year. After all even they wouldn't want a championship won in court.

The whole idea that it was required to have a final lap, after the previous advantage Lewis had earned was eliminated both through the passing of cars and the fact his opponent was on fresh tires was absurd. If they wanted a fair race then it should have been an immediate red flag and the final 5 laps both Max and Lewis should have been on fresh tires in the same position. This has made the whole sport a joke and given Max a hollow victory. They're both great drivers, but Lewis was clearly faster all race - even after he got blocked by Perez he pulled away again. All of the racing decision making officials deserve to be sacked and if Masi had a shred of decency left he would have resigned already. Alas, they'll be another time to race.

The deadline for the new appeal for Mercedes is still Thursday after that date it will be impossible for them to go to court.

To me, they are in the right.

I'm not a Mercedes fan at all, Mercedes is my archenemy but FIA stole the title from Hamilton.

That's good news. Yes, no team should be able to contact him. And it does appear to be one of the reasons for his change of decision in the race... initially he said lapped cars wouldn't be allowed to overtake, Horner complained, and then Masi changed his mind and said yes, they can (but only the few that Red Bull wanted). But yes, both teams have been at it all season, and it shouldn't be allowed.

However, after the way he handled that last race, I would assume that next season, teams will actually be allowed to talk to Masi all they want... because he will no longer be in that job. First job for the new FIA president after the election is to sack Masi, surely?

It was announced that next season teams won't be allowed to communicate with Masi. It was really ridiculous to hear Horner or Wolf constantly crying to him on radio and making pressure. I think it may one of main reason why he handled situation in this way like he did.
Mick was fighting with Latifi, but Latifi crashed not because of it. It was his own mistake. But offcourse, Mick was happy about how things ended. Vettel too.

On the whole, it's good that Verstappen was confirmed as the winner of the race on the same day. Otherwise it would be a farce, this move while driving and defending against Hamilton I have also seen, apparently Mercedes has not raised an objection because of this maneuver, possibly this was classified as a hard but "still" allowed maneuver because the track was wide enough there. But I do not know exactly and I can assess too little, but it was hard on the border, Hamilton would probably have done so, but Mercedes could also change tires, Hamilton had even radioed once, why they have not also changed tires. But the decisive driver of the world championship was Latifi, without an accident Hamilton would have driven home with the least risk "one stop strategy" the race easy.

It's impossible now for the FIA to reach a conclusion that everyone will accept. They really messed this one up by ignoring the rulebook. They've said they won't reverse the decision, but of course they were never going to reverse a decision that they'd only just made. It's up to Mercedes now to challenge this so that it gets looked at independently... which they've said they will do. The F1 officials, and particularly Masi, just keep putting themselves in stupid positions... but with this one they have really outdone themselves.

Absolute chaos, and not a good look for F1 at all. I think that this story still has a long way to go.

Yeah, agreed. After all these things happened, FIA can't change the winner from now on. And they shouldn't. Otherwise, I'm sure that there will be so many people who will stop following F1. It was FIA's mistake and Verstappen has no fault in this. He just played along with the direction of the race and captured the lead from Hamilton perfectly. I still think that they both deserved to be the champion. If it wasn't for SC, Hamilton was going to be the winner. This is F1 and everything can happen any time.

if hamilton is declared the champion and Verstappen is demoted to 2nd place then F1 is a failed competition. I watched the race on television and in the last lap it was clear that Verstappen was the winner and was even celebrated on the podium.

Lewis Hamilton kept the lead for a long, and the final lap it was breathtaking to watch. Hamilton once came close touching Verstappen. Watching those drive was really enjoyable, and it kept my heartbeat at the peak. Even a small touch could end everything. Mercedes not happy and the Redbull delighted with the win of Verstappen making his first World Championship title. The race began with some controversy and ended with controversy on the new champion.

We are just laughing about it but on the other hand I hope that Mick Schumacher really didn't do this to give one last chance to Verstappen to reach the title.    After FIA's big mistakes according to the rules, Mercedes objected to the final decision. And now this is overshadowing Verstappen's title which is not very good. I would have wanted to see a clean race and a champion without debates like this.

he had small effect on Latifi accident not a big one in my opinion Williams cars always spin out when there is a change in the Air Flow that made Latifi loses control and for Hamilton losing his championship I blame his team as they had two windows to change his old tires but they didn't.
If he changed his tires to soft and RBs so that he pitted I don't think that they will be also pitting cause they win the track advantage but it will be Hamilton p2 with softs and Verstappen p1 on hard slightly used hards and we all know that Mercedes were performing better so I think he will be also Hamilton will able to get back p1 in that lap.

After leaving a perfect race behind and seeing Verstappen becoming the champion, I was really tired. I can't even imagine how much tired the drivers were. It was a controversial race though because of some of FIA's decisions. Those decisions were not very consistent and they overlooked the rules in the last moments of the race also. We are still waiting for how Mercedes' complain will end. It would be really shocking for everyone if Hamilton is announced as the new champion.

It is true that mick Schumacher and latifi had a contact but that was not the direct cause of latifis crash because he lost his car 2 turns after they have touched. So i would say it's a pretty wild assumption that mick Schumacher did this on purpose to make verstappen the World champion in order to save the record of his father. Hamilton probably has a few more years to become the only driver to win 8 championships. If that makes him the best ever is up to each.

Not sure why people keep suggesting this, when it's clearly not the case.
If Hamilton pitted first, then Verstappen would have stayed out on fairly fresh tyres, Hamilton would have gambled that the race would have time to restart, and then gamble on being able to pass Max on track.
If Verstappen pitted first, then remember that the Mercedes has to go past the pit lane entrance before Max gets there... so Lewis wouldn't have been able to copy Max's stop until the next lap, by which time Max would have been back out and in the lead.
Basically the only option Mercedes had for winning the race was to stay out on track.

Lewis cannot go in the same lap as Verstappen, unless you mean Lewis goes in first... in which case of course Max stays out. You can only copy what someone else does before you, you can't copy what someone will do after you.



Yes, it was inevitable they'd reject it, and equally inevitable Mercedes will make a legal challenge. Masi broke two rules, and set two precedents, firstly that some but not all cars unlap themselves, and secondly that safety car goes in the same lap, not end of the next lap. Apply either of those two rules normally, as they have always been applied before, and the race ends under safety car, and Lewis wins. Basically Masi manipulated it so that the championship would't end under the safety car, and would have Max and Lewis racing wheel to wheel... which given the tyre situation was basically bending the rules to guarantee a Max win, but with normal application of the rules Max would always otherwise be in a losing position. By error or by design, not sure which, Masi ignored the rules and his justification for doing so was basically 'race director can do whatever he wants, regardless of rules'. This is going to get far messier than it already is.