Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 430.

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Quote from: dre1982 on May 14, 2021, 12:56:05 PM

The GP of Turkey is cancelled and therefore will be an extra race in Austria. This can be good news for Verstappen because his Red Bull is normally doing great at that circuit .

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/31442913/turkish-gp-cancelled-austria-gets-second-2021-race

It' sad to see Turkish GP cancelled, race there last year was so exciting. But at least replacement for it isn't bad. Offcourse, it would be best to add new track to calendar than have 2 races in same track. Mugello, Nurburgring or Hockenheim would be good addition and it wouldn't be very difficult in terms of logistics I think. But I guess it's a ll about the money. On the other hand, imagine double header in French track

. I doubt that many would like to see such thing Cheesy

.

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The GP of Turkey is cancelled and therefore will be an extra race in Austria. This can be good news for Verstappen because his Red Bull is normally doing great at that circuit .

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/31442913/turkish-gp-cancelled-austria-gets-second-2021-race

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^ Lol. Yup but it’s good tho. It’s nice to keep updated with the sport and exchange info and just talk and tell everybody what you think. And the nice thing in the forum is it isn’t toxic unlike MMA twitter. I guess it’s the sig campaigns forcing us to behave well. Cheesy

Quote from: Cnut237 on May 14, 2021, 08:18:01 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on May 13, 2021, 03:48:22 PM

The FIA has introduced a new test that is not yet under the radar yet.
They are about to change or do a new test on the flexibility of the components.
It is thought that this test is something done against the red bull who in the past had already found a way to use flexible wings by circumventing the regulation for those who remember it.
They used a clever way to "stretch" the layers of the carbon fiber to make it move differently depending on the force applied, ingenious but then banned.

Yes, Hamilton mentioned it over the radio during the race. It was kind of a strange thing for him to say, and it felt a bit rehearsed... a bit like it was Toto speaking through Hamilton, and making sure that the message went out over TV to millions of people, so the FIA were forced to look at it.

Mercedes have had concerns for a while that the Red Bull wing is solid when the car is stationary, so it passes the FIA regulations... but then it bends when the car is travelling at speed, so gains an advantage. It's not breaking the rules as such, more going against the spirit of the rules...

AFAIK Red Bull get to keep the bendy wing for the next 3 races though, to give them time to engineer an alternative if the FIA find against them.

I think Toto Wolff could just complain straight to the FIA and get them to look at it.. Like how they usually do it.

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Quote from: tokeweed on May 13, 2021, 12:48:45 PM

Not sure about those hard tires in that exact scenario but I think it would still slow Verstappen’s pace down a bit. If they wanted to go for the hard tires, they should’ve slapped it on before lap 10 and ran with it til the end of the race. And of course I’m obv not a team principal here and I’m just talking out of my ass. Cheesy

Dude we all are Cheesy

. But everything aside, if Max had hard tires, that would mean that it wouldn't end up 100% guaranteed, which would definitely slow him down there is no doubt about that at all but when you have yourself a "should we do something that may work, or pick the thing we know will fail unless Hamilton crashes?" then you go do the thing that may win you.

Like I said before, lap literally right after Hamilton, you saw him go to pit? Just run around very quickly back to pit and have yours one lap after his and hopefully maybe you can get out before him? Sure he would be faster than Max but Max would still have awesome tires at 60+ while Hamiltons tires would have a problem, it would slow him down and his turns would get slower.

So long story short Hard tires, or even just get that one medium tire if they had one? Or do whatever, hell if they had soft that would have worked for 2 stops and would still fail them but at the end of the day everyone and their grandmother knew the one they did wouldn't work.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on May 13, 2021, 03:48:22 PM

The FIA has introduced a new test that is not yet under the radar yet.
They are about to change or do a new test on the flexibility of the components.
It is thought that this test is something done against the red bull who in the past had already found a way to use flexible wings by circumventing the regulation for those who remember it.
They used a clever way to "stretch" the layers of the carbon fiber to make it move differently depending on the force applied, ingenious but then banned.

Yes, Hamilton mentioned it over the radio during the race. It was kind of a strange thing for him to say, and it felt a bit rehearsed... a bit like it was Toto speaking through Hamilton, and making sure that the message went out over TV to millions of people, so the FIA were forced to look at it.

Mercedes have had concerns for a while that the Red Bull wing is solid when the car is stationary, so it passes the FIA regulations... but then it bends when the car is travelling at speed, so gains an advantage. It's not breaking the rules as such, more going against the spirit of the rules...

AFAIK Red Bull get to keep the bendy wing for the next 3 races though, to give them time to engineer an alternative if the FIA find against them.

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The FIA has introduced a new test that is not yet under the radar yet.
They are about to change or do a new test on the flexibility of the components.
It is thought that this test is something done against the red bull who in the past had already found a way to use flexible wings by circumventing the regulation for those who remember it.
They used a clever way to "stretch" the layers of the carbon fiber to make it move differently depending on the force applied, ingenious but then banned.

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^ Oh. Missed that one tbh.

Quote from: bitgolden on May 12, 2021, 03:49:46 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on May 12, 2021, 07:49:36 AM

The reason why they didn’t pit Verstappen to get a new set of mediums after Hamilton got his was cos Red Bull only got one set of mediums for Verstappen. Lol. I only found out from a podcast a friend of mine was listening to. And they couldn’t give him the softs cos that’s good for like just three fast laps then it deteriorates.

Didn't they had any hard tires? I mean if Max pitted literally right after Hamilton it would have been about 20 seconds or so difference and when he got out he would probably be 50-50% behind or ahead of Hamilton at that point, even if he is behind him, at least he would be very close and the race would be just two close cars racing, at that point Mercedes has the better car, and Hamilton is arguably the better driver but at least have 2 cars both with hard tires going at around the same place within just few seconds of each other for 20+ laps, that would basically be a test of durability and focus at that point and would have made a great deal.

If they did that, it would have certainly changed too many things for that race. This was simply just "let's wait until Hamilton catches up" and that doesn't make any sense at all, everyone knew Hamilton would catch up, it wasn't a surprise.

Not sure about those hard tires in that exact scenario but I think it would still slow Verstappen’s pace down a bit. If they wanted to go for the hard tires, they should’ve slapped it on before lap 10 and ran with it til the end of the race. And of course I’m obv not a team principal here and I’m just talking out of my ass. Cheesy

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Quote from: tokeweed on May 12, 2021, 07:49:36 AM

The reason why they didn’t pit Verstappen to get a new set of mediums after Hamilton got his was cos Red Bull only got one set of mediums for Verstappen. Lol. I only found out from a podcast a friend of mine was listening to.

Hey, I posted that here a couple of days ago! Cheesy

Quote from: Cnut237 on May 10, 2021, 02:32:31 AM

Mercedes planned this strategy well in advance of the race... they ensured they went into race day with two sets of mediums for Hamilton. Verstappen only had one set. If Verstappen had gone for the second stop at the same time as Hamilton, he'd have had to put softs on, which would have degraded severely by the end of the race, and Hamilton would have overtaken with ease.

It was a very good recovery drive by Hamilton, but superb race planning by Mercedes.

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Quote from: bitgolden on May 12, 2021, 03:49:46 PM

Didn't they had any hard tires? I mean if Max pitted literally right after Hamilton it would have been about 20 seconds or so difference and when he got out he would probably be 50-50% behind or ahead of Hamilton at that point, even if he is behind him, at least he would be very close and the race would be just two close cars racing, at that point Mercedes has the better car, and Hamilton is arguably the better driver but at least have 2 cars both with hard tires going at around the same place within just few seconds of each other for 20+ laps, that would basically be a test of durability and focus at that point and would have made a great deal.

If they did that, it would have certainly changed too many things for that race. This was simply just "let's wait until Hamilton catches up" and that doesn't make any sense at all, everyone knew Hamilton would catch up, it wasn't a surprise.

He couldn't.
The undercut strategy is too strong in Barcellona.
Hamilton pitted early without any call while he was near Max.

In this track, you can earn almost 3 seconds in the lap you pit so if Max was pitting the lap after Hamilton he was already behind him after the pit.
He had 0% chances to fight with him if he was pitting right after him.

The only hope at that point was to hope a slower degradation of the tires or a safety car.

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Quote from: tokeweed on May 12, 2021, 07:49:36 AM

The reason why they didn’t pit Verstappen to get a new set of mediums after Hamilton got his was cos Red Bull only got one set of mediums for Verstappen. Lol. I only found out from a podcast a friend of mine was listening to. And they couldn’t give him the softs cos that’s good for like just three fast laps then it deteriorates.

Didn't they had any hard tires? I mean if Max pitted literally right after Hamilton it would have been about 20 seconds or so difference and when he got out he would probably be 50-50% behind or ahead of Hamilton at that point, even if he is behind him, at least he would be very close and the race would be just two close cars racing, at that point Mercedes has the better car, and Hamilton is arguably the better driver but at least have 2 cars both with hard tires going at around the same place within just few seconds of each other for 20+ laps, that would basically be a test of durability and focus at that point and would have made a great deal.

If they did that, it would have certainly changed too many things for that race. This was simply just "let's wait until Hamilton catches up" and that doesn't make any sense at all, everyone knew Hamilton would catch up, it wasn't a surprise.

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Quote from: dre1982 on May 11, 2021, 06:03:30 AM

Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on May 11, 2021, 04:10:32 AM

Quote from: sana54210 on May 09, 2021, 01:58:08 PM

I do believe that if Verstappen went for a pit on right after Hamilton, he would have a chance to win. I am not saying that he would win very easily, all I am saying is that he would probably have enough time to either go out at first once again, which could be a problem and Hamilton could have been first and after that it is a difficult task to catch up to him but at least you have a chance with a DRS window maybe (albeit spain is a difficult track to pass anyone, let alone Hamilton) but at least you had a chance.

This way it was always obvious that he would have slowed down, Hamilton had a great run and kept increasing his speed time and time after again and again which is a great thing but the main problem was Max couldn't go, his tireware was just way too much, if he pitted even a few laps after Hamilton he would have at least be second again but have a chance.

Yeah, Redbull's pit strategy was so wrong. They could have done that. Or when there were 15-16 laps to go, Verstappen could go for a pit and the team could mount fresh softs. I believe that he could catch up with Hamilton like that. But there was no guarantee for Verstappen to overtake him in both cases of course. But it would be worth trying.

It was worth the try, better then just losing time every round and pit for softs at the end of the race. Verstappen's pace at the end was very well so if he could do that for many more laps he maybe could had come closer. A win was too much then but now he was just driving around and losing time every round.

The reason why they didn’t pit Verstappen to get a new set of mediums after Hamilton got his was cos Red Bull only got one set of mediums for Verstappen. Lol. I only found out from a podcast a friend of mine was listening to. And they couldn’t give him the softs cos that’s good for like just three fast laps then it deteriorates.

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Quote from: blue Snow on May 11, 2021, 07:03:35 AM

Arm Pump is a recurrent disease, We know on the first lap Quartararo is fine he on top, but in the last Lap he sickness. I still worry he can control that in Le Man's circuit. So far, Marquez still didn't find his performance, and in fact, a years ago on the Le Mans circuit his brother Alex going to 2nd position. In my opinion, Mark still not yet on the podium in the next game, maybe Alex can do it.

You are right it turns out that it is due to the hands working and holding the load excessively, it turns out that it was not only Quartararo who experienced that, Espargaro and Jack Miller was the same. It seems that the motorbike specifications and the riding style are very influential in this injury.

What do you think about Rossi, since 2008 he has managed to get on the podium at Le Man 7 times. After doing the test at Jerez there were changes in the motorbike. Terk Le man is also a favorite of rosi and yamaha due to the many changes in direction on the circuit. Apart from that, I saw that in the class, Rossi only got 4 points so far.

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Today was another important day for formula 1, a test day for next year's Pirelli.
Kubica and Albion tested them for AlfaRomeo and Redbull for a total of about 280 laps.

The situation is not very clear to me though.
For example, if the Redbull has done about 700 kilometers with this year's car, is this not to be considered as an extra test that they have had available to try some elements in the car?

Why the red bull and Ferrari for example no?
Strange.

Source: https://www.formulapassion.it/motorsport/formula-1/test-pirelli-iniziata-la-due-giorni-di-barcellona-alfa-romeo-alpine-redbull-albon-kvyat-kubica-564879.html

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Quote from: bounceback on May 10, 2021, 03:08:53 AM

Quote from: Luzin on May 09, 2021, 12:33:38 PM

Quote from: blue Snow on May 09, 2021, 06:30:40 AM

The next MotoGP or the 5th session will be placed in France, Le Mans Circuit, Quartararo home. he finishes 13th in Spain. so, Bagnaia was taken over in his 1st position, with 2 points left. will Quartararo take his 1st position again? we will see in the next 16 May. I hope his Arm pump has recover well. we know because that injured he appearance decreased from 1st to 13th.

I'm curious about Marquez if he can still look the way he was before his injury. His performance in Spain yesterday was quite good after a long injury time. In fact, he is quite good among other Honda racers. Regarding Quartararo, yes he is the favorite racer to win this season. He was able to take advantage of Yamaha's strengths in the environment very well.

Marques is a great rider even though his injury has not fully recovered but yesterday he was able to do very well, so in my opinion it is very possible if Marquez will finish pole at the French Le Mans circuit and Quartararo will finish second. of course this will be a very exciting race.

Arm Pump is a recurrent disease, We know on the first lap Quartararo is fine he on top, but in the last Lap he sickness. I still worry he can control that in Le Man's circuit. So far, Marquez still didn't find his performance, and in fact, a years ago on the Le Mans circuit his brother Alex going to 2nd position. In my opinion, Mark still not yet on the podium in the next game, maybe Alex can do it.

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Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on May 11, 2021, 04:10:32 AM

Quote from: sana54210 on May 09, 2021, 01:58:08 PM

I do believe that if Verstappen went for a pit on right after Hamilton, he would have a chance to win. I am not saying that he would win very easily, all I am saying is that he would probably have enough time to either go out at first once again, which could be a problem and Hamilton could have been first and after that it is a difficult task to catch up to him but at least you have a chance with a DRS window maybe (albeit spain is a difficult track to pass anyone, let alone Hamilton) but at least you had a chance.

This way it was always obvious that he would have slowed down, Hamilton had a great run and kept increasing his speed time and time after again and again which is a great thing but the main problem was Max couldn't go, his tireware was just way too much, if he pitted even a few laps after Hamilton he would have at least be second again but have a chance.

Yeah, Redbull's pit strategy was so wrong. They could have done that. Or when there were 15-16 laps to go, Verstappen could go for a pit and the team could mount fresh softs. I believe that he could catch up with Hamilton like that. But there was no guarantee for Verstappen to overtake him in both cases of course. But it would be worth trying.

It was worth the try, better then just losing time every round and pit for softs at the end of the race. Verstappen's pace at the end was very well so if he could do that for many more laps he maybe could had come closer. A win was too much then but now he was just driving around and losing time every round.

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Quote from: swogerino on May 09, 2021, 12:42:11 PM

This was a better race I think with Verstappen and Honda showing improvements race after race.The race was won from the engineers at Mercedes and Red Bull team needs to take some notes for today race as they lost it in the final stages of the race because of their bad strategy.It looks like this will be a better F1 Championship compared to the one of last year.

In my opinion, engineers did not win the race but the strategists, if I'm not a mistaken, Verstappen only had one set of medium tires available and Hamilton 2 sets of medium tires and so the race was won by Mercedes. So, in my opinion, the race was won by the tire and the tire strategy.

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Quote from: sana54210 on May 09, 2021, 01:58:08 PM

I do believe that if Verstappen went for a pit on right after Hamilton, he would have a chance to win. I am not saying that he would win very easily, all I am saying is that he would probably have enough time to either go out at first once again, which could be a problem and Hamilton could have been first and after that it is a difficult task to catch up to him but at least you have a chance with a DRS window maybe (albeit spain is a difficult track to pass anyone, let alone Hamilton) but at least you had a chance.

This way it was always obvious that he would have slowed down, Hamilton had a great run and kept increasing his speed time and time after again and again which is a great thing but the main problem was Max couldn't go, his tireware was just way too much, if he pitted even a few laps after Hamilton he would have at least be second again but have a chance.

Yeah, Redbull's pit strategy was so wrong. They could have done that. Or when there were 15-16 laps to go, Verstappen could go for a pit and the team could mount fresh softs. I believe that he could catch up with Hamilton like that. But there was no guarantee for Verstappen to overtake him in both cases of course. But it would be worth trying.

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Quote from: tokeweed on May 10, 2021, 10:42:23 AM

And Perez should improve out there and get the constructors points as close as possible vs Merc. He has become somewhat of a liability.

He needs to improve, definitely. All the talk is of Bottas not being good enough... but he does consistently finish in the top three. Red Bull and Mercedes both need their second drivers to perform well, because it gives them a tactical edge in the Hamilton/Verstappen battle.
If you have two cars at the front, and the other team only has one, then you have a huge tactical advantage going into the pit stops. If Perez were up near the front, it would help both Verstappen and Red Bull. Admittedly Bottas does need to improve a bit... but Perez needs to improve more.

Perhaps for this last race he can be excused as he was ill during qualifying... but in future races he needs to be up near the front.

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Quote from: sana54210 on May 09, 2021, 01:58:08 PM

I do believe that if Verstappen went for a pit on right after Hamilton, he would have a chance to win. I am not saying that he would win very easily, all I am saying is that he would probably have enough time to either go out at first once again, which could be a problem and Hamilton could have been first and after that it is a difficult task to catch up to him but at least you have a chance with a DRS window maybe (albeit spain is a difficult track to pass anyone, let alone Hamilton) but at least you had a chance.

This way it was always obvious that he would have slowed down, Hamilton had a great run and kept increasing his speed time and time after again and again which is a great thing but the main problem was Max couldn't go, his tireware was just way too much, if he pitted even a few laps after Hamilton he would have at least be second again but have a chance.

Nope, Verstappen would then be blocked by Bottas and either risk losing second place or have a big enough gap vs the leader and have zero chance to win first place. RBR had to just take whatever they had and make the best of it.

And Perez should improve out there and get the constructors points as close as possible vs Merc. He has become somewhat of a liability.

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Quote from: Luzin on May 09, 2021, 12:33:38 PM

Quote from: blue Snow on May 09, 2021, 06:30:40 AM

The next MotoGP or the 5th session will be placed in France, Le Mans Circuit, Quartararo home. he finishes 13th in Spain. so, Bagnaia was taken over in his 1st position, with 2 points left. will Quartararo take his 1st position again? we will see in the next 16 May. I hope his Arm pump has recover well. we know because that injured he appearance decreased from 1st to 13th.

I'm curious about Marquez if he can still look the way he was before his injury. His performance in Spain yesterday was quite good after a long injury time. In fact, he is quite good among other Honda racers. Regarding Quartararo, yes he is the favorite racer to win this season. He was able to take advantage of Yamaha's strengths in the environment very well.

Marques is a great rider even though his injury has not fully recovered but yesterday he was able to do very well, so in my opinion it is very possible if Marquez will finish pole at the French Le Mans circuit and Quartararo will finish second. of course this will be a very exciting race.

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