Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 499.

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Quote from: -CryptoViking- on September 19, 2020, 01:57:24 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on September 18, 2020, 04:10:22 PM

Fia is a joke to me expecially from last year.
They said "The holes on the Mercedes are illigal but you can use it till the end of the season without penalty".

In a normal world that was a black flag for the entire season for Mercedes.

Yea, I just got used to that. FIA had a lot of terrible and blatant abuses of power throughout the years, with a lot of drivers and teams suffering and that won't change soon. That is why I don't get excited, I have one team I support and that is Ferrari. I don't support any driver after Schumi.

i love to watch racing and even when Ferrari is bad I watch every practice, quali and race. There is always something interesting to track and watch in F1 even when you and your team is struggling. So FIA can go and f... themselves Grin

I'll keep on watching like Ferrari keeps on racing, despite everything bad that is happening.

I also do not love seeing Mercedes dominating every single race and what is even more boring is the fact that Boringttas(Bottas) is a clown who follow orders of the team making the race extremely boring.At least when Rosberg was fighting him there was some incentive to watch F1 races more than now as Rosberg it was not “A yes man” like Bottas is.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on September 18, 2020, 04:10:22 PM

Fia is a joke to me expecially from last year.
They said "The holes on the Mercedes are illigal but you can use it till the end of the season without penalty".

In a normal world that was a black flag for the entire season for Mercedes.

Yea, I just got used to that. FIA had a lot of terrible and blatant abuses of power throughout the years, with a lot of drivers and teams suffering and that won't change soon. That is why I don't get excited, I have one team I support and that is Ferrari. I don't support any driver after Schumi.

i love to watch racing and even when Ferrari is bad I watch every practice, quali and race. There is always something interesting to track and watch in F1 even when you and your team is struggling. So FIA can go and f... themselves Grin

I'll keep on watching like Ferrari keeps on racing, despite everything bad that is happening.

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Quote from: -CryptoViking- on September 18, 2020, 09:48:47 AM

i'm watching F1 since '96 , and trust me everything is possible when it comes to FIA and F1. All this news and talk is the surface, just the tip of the iceberg, official stories.There is always something happening under the surface and behind the closed doors.

I'm not calling Ferrari domination and wins lol, but this power structure won't last till 2022, trust me.

Fia is a joke to me expecially from last year.
They said "The holes on the Mercedes are illigal but you can use it till the end of the season without penalty".

In a normal world that was a black flag for the entire season for Mercedes.

Koal-84

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Quote from: Luzin on September 18, 2020, 11:36:50 AM

Quote from: Koal-84 on September 17, 2020, 02:43:36 AM

The new exhaust looks unusual, the other test parts are good says the drivers the most of them have a very good feeling for the new parts but the new chassis is not a upgrade?

Like the exhaust in the WSBK race, the exhaust is on the side, it looks like it's still from Akrapovic. If I'm not mistaken, this type of Akrapovic has an even engine speed from low to medium engine speed. I think Rosi hopes this will improve his bike's abilities.

Yes you are right, i also think this. At a article i read that the exhaust have a better responsiveness and better performance in the middle speed range and how you write not in the higher speeds.

So I'm looking forward to tomorrow's qualification, all hunt Yamaha? Rossi's two hundredth podium is possible this weekend.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on September 17, 2020, 02:43:36 AM

The new exhaust looks unusual, the other test parts are good says the drivers the most of them have a very good feeling for the new parts but the new chassis is not a upgrade?

Like the exhaust in the WSBK race, the exhaust is on the side, it looks like it's still from Akrapovic. If I'm not mistaken, this type of Akrapovic has an even engine speed from low to medium engine speed. I think Rosi hopes this will improve his bike's abilities.

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Quote from: Juggy777 on September 18, 2020, 08:02:10 AM

@CryptoViking this was discussed a while ago and if you read the statements from Ferrari then you’ll realise that they’ll not be making any updates in 2021, all the updates are planned for 2022 only. Also I don’t think that Ferrari has any political tricks up their sleeves otherwise they would have used it by now, hence you’ll have to wait till 2022 only to see Ferrari’s updates.

Sources:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/ferrari-doesnt-think-it-can-win-again-until-2022/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-no-wins-2022-elkann/4845193/

i'm watching F1 since '96 , and trust me everything is possible when it comes to FIA and F1. All this news and talk is the surface, just the tip of the iceberg, official stories.There is always something happening under the surface and behind the closed doors.

I'm not calling Ferrari domination and wins lol, but this power structure won't last till 2022, trust me.

Quote from: aesma on September 18, 2020, 08:19:04 AM

I didn't like the old days of FIA meaning Ferrari International Assistance so I don't wish them to win by default now either. Relaxing of the rules would be good but poorer teams will not be onboard for that.

Ferrari missed only 26 races from the beginnings of the F1, so that means something. Considering how Ferrari was always there for F1 and always gave 100% for F1, they have not been treated that favorably as you are trying to present. Yes they have a certain weight and they should have it considering all the facts, but some other teams had periods like Mercedes has now. Where everything is done so it suits them so they don't leave F1.

Lots of teams got more then they deserved cos they were threatening to leave F1, Ferrari never did.

Check how long Ferrari had to wait for the title before Schmi's first Ferrari title...

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I didn't like the old days of FIA meaning Ferrari International Assistance so I don't wish them to win by default now either. Relaxing of the rules would be good but poorer teams will not be onboard for that.

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Quote from: -CryptoViking- on September 18, 2020, 05:27:52 AM

Quote from: aesma on September 18, 2020, 04:59:52 AM

coinlocket$ : I found a good article explaining the token system : https://the-race.com/formula-1/six-key-questions-about-f1s-new-token-system-answered/

Basically it's too late for Ferrari to use tokens for this year anyway, and they probably need to better understand their problems before using their tokens.

Reading that article through, you get the feeling no team will be able to significantly improve their car this year or next year, which is not good news.

Or good news for Ferrari if you look at it from a different point of view Cheesy

Nobody will be able to get even more ahead of Ferrari.

Seriously though, Ferrari is laying low now, but I'm pretty sure that before the start of the new season something will happen, either from political aspect or Ferrari will find something to make their car more competitive. Other solution is to disturb Mercedes somehow, by some political tricks like Mercedes uses on other teams or by some discoveries that will somehow hurt Mercedes.

i don't believe that this situation will continue into the next season when it comes to Ferrari.

@CryptoViking this was discussed a while ago and if you read the statements from Ferrari then you’ll realise that they’ll not be making any updates in 2021, all the updates are planned for 2022 only. Also I don’t think that Ferrari has any political tricks up their sleeves otherwise they would have used it by now, hence you’ll have to wait till 2022 only to see Ferrari’s updates.

Sources:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/ferrari-doesnt-think-it-can-win-again-until-2022/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-no-wins-2022-elkann/4845193/

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Quote from: aesma on September 18, 2020, 04:59:52 AM

coinlocket$ : I found a good article explaining the token system : https://the-race.com/formula-1/six-key-questions-about-f1s-new-token-system-answered/

Basically it's too late for Ferrari to use tokens for this year anyway, and they probably need to better understand their problems before using their tokens.

Reading that article through, you get the feeling no team will be able to significantly improve their car this year or next year, which is not good news.

Or good news for Ferrari if you look at it from a different point of view Cheesy

Nobody will be able to get even more ahead of Ferrari.

Seriously though, Ferrari is laying low now, but I'm pretty sure that before the start of the new season something will happen, either from political aspect or Ferrari will find something to make their car more competitive. Other solution is to disturb Mercedes somehow, by some political tricks like Mercedes uses on other teams or by some discoveries that will somehow hurt Mercedes.

i don't believe that this situation will continue into the next season when it comes to Ferrari.

aesma

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coinlocket$ : I found a good article explaining the token system : https://the-race.com/formula-1/six-key-questions-about-f1s-new-token-system-answered/

Basically it's too late for Ferrari to use tokens for this year anyway, and they probably need to better understand their problems before using their tokens.

Reading that article through, you get the feeling no team will be able to significantly improve their car this year or next year, which is not good news.

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Binotto has spoken today and he basically said this:

While other team are interest on improving their car with upgrades this year we are not interest on it.
We will save our "tokens" for the 2021 car and we freeze the progress of the car for this year.

As you may know teams can use "3 or 4 tokens" can't remember to use an upgrade on their car during the year.
It can't be a motor improvment but it can be almost everything else.

So they are already working and upgrading this car but they save these tokens for next year, idk if they will be added in next year car, I don't know how it works.

Koal-84

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Quote from: AakZaki on September 16, 2020, 03:38:38 PM

Quote from: Koal-84 on September 16, 2020, 02:33:07 AM

~snip~
Yamaha were the only teams that didn't test two weeks ago?

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/jorge-lorenzo-interview-ducati/

From several articles that I read, I don't think this has anything to do with Lorenzo's move. Indeed, there is a lot of news that Lorenzo has spoken with Ducati but Ducati still opens up opportunities for all riders who meet the criteria to join the Team. Yamaha also did not explain it, even Rossi did not know about the problem and this made him disappointed that other manufacturers had tested it.

With Lorenzo is only speculation but i don't find the article at time. Only a article in German who Rossi and Quartararo are look surprised in the interview.

https://www.motorsport-total.com/motogp/news/yamaha-fahrer-verwundert-warum-hat-lorenzo-nicht-in-misano-getestet-20091009

But at Ducati factory team is full so Lorenzo have only has one place in a satellite team, whether that meets his requirements?

At time Yamaha test many new parts with the race driver.

https://www.gpone.com/en/2020/09/15/motogp/rossi-upbeat-after-positive-misano-test-with-new-exhaust.html

The new exhaust looks unusual, the other test parts are good says the drivers the most of them have a very good feeling for the new parts but the new chassis is not a upgrade?

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Quote from: justdimin on September 16, 2020, 02:07:16 PM

The race was seriously one of the most entertaining ones that I have watched in a long period of time. I know that most people do not like crashes because it could end up very bad, it could end up with a racer injured and that is the sad part of the discussion, thank god that nothing like that happened and I am quite happy about it.

But, the fact that nobody was injured made the race a lot more fun, I don't know how "I want a lot of crashes without anyone getting injured" sounds to people, since you can't guarantee nobody getting hurt in a crash, but that is really all how I feel. Also how could anyone still have fun of a regular race, maybe few problems with few cars, 15 cars ending at least, 1 is hamilton and 2 is bottas, and three is probably verstappen, and think that is fun anymore?

It was a race where a lot of thinks happend. I prefer this track more then for example Barcelona.

Wondering how the race in Turkey will be. That also seems to be a great track.

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I haven't heard about that (Mercedes doing the same), do you have a link ? I like teams doing "borderline" stuff even if it gets banned after some races, without sanction, otherwise they wouldn't do it. I don't understand why the Ferrari thing is kept secret, though.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on September 16, 2020, 02:33:07 AM

~snip~
Yamaha were the only teams that didn't test two weeks ago?

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/jorge-lorenzo-interview-ducati/

From several articles that I read, I don't think this has anything to do with Lorenzo's move. Indeed, there is a lot of news that Lorenzo has spoken with Ducati but Ducati still opens up opportunities for all riders who meet the criteria to join the Team. Yamaha also did not explain it, even Rossi did not know about the problem and this made him disappointed that other manufacturers had tested it.

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Yeah you right.

A good enteraining rade just need more equilibrate cars, you can't cut 50hp from 6 cars with a secret deal while the others teams are using now the same "secret" thing in a different way.

AFAIK Ferrari was using more oil on the gas to get an advantage, was a regular but cleaver thing.
They decided to remove it.

Mercedes now is using the same thing but in a different way.

They ruined it, the second half of the last year was funnier and yes Mercedes needed to be disqualify for the illigal holes in the tires.

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A really entertaining race doesn't need crashes. Indeed it would need many drivers with the possibility of winning, many various strategies leading to plenty of overtakes... DNF are fine if a driver makes a mistake and ends up in the gravel.

Now I can recognize the entertainment value of a beautiful crash, like this one : https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1akrmg but it's not really why I watch F1.

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The race was seriously one of the most entertaining ones that I have watched in a long period of time. I know that most people do not like crashes because it could end up very bad, it could end up with a racer injured and that is the sad part of the discussion, thank god that nothing like that happened and I am quite happy about it.

But, the fact that nobody was injured made the race a lot more fun, I don't know how "I want a lot of crashes without anyone getting injured" sounds to people, since you can't guarantee nobody getting hurt in a crash, but that is really all how I feel. Also how could anyone still have fun of a regular race, maybe few problems with few cars, 15 cars ending at least, 1 is hamilton and 2 is bottas, and three is probably verstappen, and think that is fun anymore?

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Very strange Formula One race. Entertaining if you like crashes I guess (Franz Tost seemed to think so). The big issue was the straight and the first corner, it was too easy to pass there, even without DRS. As a consequence, Bottas had to delay accelerating to the last meter, to avoid Hamilton overtaking him.

wiss19 : most car manufacturers never made inroads in F1, look at Toyota, look at Talbot, look at BMW, look at Renault these days, McLaren has gone nowhere since they've become a carmaker, Honda is only there with engines and it has taken years to become competitive...

Some of these might have fared better if they actually could compete, but with the spending restrictions it's made all the more difficult. Mercedes basically nailed it with their turbo V6 with an innovative design, and nobody can catch up. Ferrari had found a trick to get more power but they were cheating, now they're nowhere.

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Quote from: Cnut237 on September 15, 2020, 06:31:02 AM

Quote from: Juggy777 on September 15, 2020, 04:30:40 AM

@Cnut37 I too was under the impression that it was Bottas fault, but after reading the article that you have shared here now I too feel that it wasn’t Bottas fault. Also I feel that F1 authorities need to step out of their comfort zone and address these issues, because as Hamilton righty said that the lives of the driver’s are at a risk, and hence I’m hoping that they’ll soon sort this issue out so incidents like these don’t happen again.

Glad the article was useful

Their aim with this safety car change is to increase excitement in the races. The current rules and tyres were supposed to allow easier overtaking, but it didn't work out like that. 2022 is a reset, and the changes coming then should lead to a more level field, more overtaking and more exciting racing - I have faith that Ross Brawn knows what he's doing, given his hugely impressive record.

But for this season and next, due to the limitations on development due to the pandemic, we are stuck with the current cars... and unfortunately a Mercedes that is vastly better than the other cars. Even Hamilton has said that if were a fan rather than a driver, he'd probably only watch the highlights rather than full races. So the result is that the FIA are trying everything they can to increase the excitement. They are considering reverse-grids as an option (although Mercedes for obvious reasons are strongly against this). And the thing with the safety car in the last race is more of the same... it shows how desperate they are to keep the races interesting and ad an element of uncertainty. It's a difficult position.

Bottas make no start and stop befor the restart so he have not a fault i think, the same think Martin Brundle, you can read here.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundle-valtteri-bottas-mugello-crash/

At MotoGP it seems like Lorenzo is returning to Ducati, could this have been the reason why Lorenzo and Yamaha were the only teams that didn't test two weeks ago?

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/jorge-lorenzo-interview-ducati/

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