Topic: Mt Gox thinks it's the Fed. Freezes acc based on "tainted" coins. (unlocked now) (Read 17925 times)
June 06, 2012, 06:04:26 AM
The thing is that mt gox doesnt have guns and cant make you use them. So don't, it is really that simple.
June 06, 2012, 05:53:23 AM
Shouldnt you freeze the coins before you take the trading fees from them ? If you claim they are suspicious why then are you obtaining the benefit ?Isn't this akin to fencing stolen goods ? 
April 27, 2012, 02:25:44 PM
please define term "tainted coin" exactly!
i would love to have a way to check any deposit beforehand.
i would love to have a way to check any deposit beforehand.
"Tainted" means we have received a request for investigation from the Japanese law enforcement (either the CyberPolice, or an international investigation backed by a court). In some cases we may cooperate with other law enforcement around the world on a case by case basis. As of today there is only one active case, and in the past 12 months, we have marked some bitcoins on only 3 occasions.
Anyway, laws in most countries means that any exchange operating legally is required to act upon knowledge of stolen properties, and prevent to the best of their ability resell of such (failure to do so causes the exchange to be considered accomplice and can cause the people running it to face various charges depending on the context). That doesn't mean that just anyone can come and see us asking to get bitcoins marked. We need some proof and law enforcement to be involved.
Because a Bitcoin exchange deals with both the Bitcoin world and the current financial (legacy?) world, we have to comply with rules from both sides. This means we are fated to be hated by both bankers around the world for supporting something that aims at replacing them, and bitcoin supporters for complying with outdated regulations. Our goal is to find the right balance between both worlds and create a kind of bridge to allow for easier adoption of bitcoin (if it was totally impossible to exchange bitcoin against fiat, we'd have some issues finding Bitcoin users).
If you have a way to determine that a certain amount of bitcoins on one of your accounts is stolen and this way of determination is likely to hold in court (which is, to my knowledge, not the case at this point, and furthermore there was no clear statement by which the owners of the victimized accounts could verify the legal relevance of your method), there is still no reason to penalize whole accounts instead of just freezing the exact amount in question upon deposit and immediately informing the account owner so he can take legal steps against the accusation on his own. I understand that the policy you chose creates much more profit for you, but on the other hand you will understand that your policy will make you look rather untrustworthy in the bitcoin community.
April 27, 2012, 02:14:26 PM
They may or may not be able to do that legally however it will take a lawsuit to find out. So far any seizures they have done haven't been worth the effort for anyone to contest them. The fact that they are in Japan and most of their customers are not in Japan hasn't helped.
This is why it is important that people communicate such issues over forums like this one. When it happens too often, people can join forces to file a lawsuit which will bring more security (in one way or another) to the whole community. 
March 30, 2012, 01:37:37 PM
very glad to hear that your coins have been liberated, I note that Mt. Gox didn't answer many of the questions posed in this thread, as in how many coins do they have locked down atm & how many if any have ever been sequestrated & returned to those who have claimed to have had their private keys stolen & most importantly what is their ongoing policy on this & how is it workable
in future I think that any coins Mt. Gox has on a black list as so called tainted, or freezes, should be regarded as having caught the gox, a nasty unpredictable & highly contagious disease not unlike the pox, often fatal to your coins or anonymity but as we have just seen can be subject to unexpected miraculous cures as well
remember folks, always check first with the bitcoin police & instantly quarantine any coins that they say may show early symptoms of the dreaded gox, ie totally unworkable so pse someone open another exchange or two with strong DKYC policies in force (Don't Know Your Client)
in future I think that any coins Mt. Gox has on a black list as so called tainted, or freezes, should be regarded as having caught the gox, a nasty unpredictable & highly contagious disease not unlike the pox, often fatal to your coins or anonymity but as we have just seen can be subject to unexpected miraculous cures as well
remember folks, always check first with the bitcoin police & instantly quarantine any coins that they say may show early symptoms of the dreaded gox, ie totally unworkable so pse someone open another exchange or two with strong DKYC policies in force (Don't Know Your Client)
March 29, 2012, 04:27:43 PM
What I've read so far about MtGox on this forum is enough for me to never use that exchange. I am using a free exchange that doesn't collect sensitive information they have proven to be incompetent of protecting (see posts above). There is no point of exchanges working like banks and be trusted with fiat in the first place when all you need is a BTC-escrow for the system to work. As I see it, since there is no actual need for an exchange to deal with the money side of things, there is actually no need for them to deal with AML regulations, either. Furthermore, there is no need for a middleman taking a fee to let me trade with my fellow bitcoin holders, apart from donations to keep the service alive that is. I get the impression MtGox is the Deepbit for exchanges. People use it out of convenience. So, if you continue to use it I see no right in you complaining anymore if they freeze your account or steal your money to comply with "THE LAW". Last time I checked, there were very few internationally agreed-upon, cross-cultural, transnational laws. But even Deepbit went from close to 50% to 34% in less than one year, so...
March 29, 2012, 03:52:02 PM
My respect and confidence in Zhou keeps going up and up.
+1.
March 29, 2012, 03:19:03 PM
My respect and confidence in Zhou keeps going up and up.
March 29, 2012, 03:18:11 PM
I'm happy that Mt. Gox has done some serious jobs to protect the benefits of their partners, and risk being misunderstood. They have been actively contacting us throughout the issue.
I apologize for those who accounts were placed on hold for AML because of their protection. We should have told them earlier our attitude that consumers and merchants shouldn't be responsible for tainted coins. We even accept the tainted coins ourselves.
At the same time, I really appreciate what Mt. Gox team has done.
I apologize for those who accounts were placed on hold for AML because of their protection. We should have told them earlier our attitude that consumers and merchants shouldn't be responsible for tainted coins. We even accept the tainted coins ourselves.
At the same time, I really appreciate what Mt. Gox team has done.
That's really classy and also foresighted. Kudos.
March 29, 2012, 03:14:16 PM
I'm happy that Mt. Gox has done some serious jobs to protect the benefits of their partners, and risk being misunderstood. They have been actively contacting us throughout the issue.
I apologize for those who accounts were placed on hold for AML because of their protection. We should have told them earlier our attitude that consumers and merchants shouldn't be responsible for tainted coins. We even accept the tainted coins ourselves.
At the same time, I really appreciate what Mt. Gox team has done.
I apologize for those who accounts were placed on hold for AML because of their protection. We should have told them earlier our attitude that consumers and merchants shouldn't be responsible for tainted coins. We even accept the tainted coins ourselves.
At the same time, I really appreciate what Mt. Gox team has done.
just WOW and +1
March 29, 2012, 03:12:20 PM
I'm happy that Mt. Gox has done some serious jobs to protect the benefits of their partners, and risk being misunderstood. They have been actively contacting us throughout the issue.
I apologize for those who accounts were placed on hold for AML because of their protection. We should have told them earlier our attitude that consumers and merchants shouldn't be responsible for tainted coins. We even accept the tainted coins ourselves.
At the same time, I really appreciate what Mt. Gox team has done.
I apologize for those who accounts were placed on hold for AML because of their protection. We should have told them earlier our attitude that consumers and merchants shouldn't be responsible for tainted coins. We even accept the tainted coins ourselves.
At the same time, I really appreciate what Mt. Gox team has done.
March 29, 2012, 02:15:13 PM
Quote
Don't underestimate the importance of perception.
I think to some degree you overestimate the importance of your perceptions. I guess time will tell either way.
Quote
Good thing Zhoutong decided to drop it, or you'd be fucked.
You might be a little... off in your perceptions of what exactly happened there.
Wasn't talking about my perceptions, in case you didn't notice.
March 29, 2012, 12:12:18 PM
Quote
Don't underestimate the importance of perception.
I think to some degree you overestimate the importance of your perceptions. I guess time will tell either way.
Quote
Good thing Zhoutong decided to drop it, or you'd be fucked.
You might be a little... off in your perceptions of what exactly happened there.
March 29, 2012, 08:56:46 AM
update
I transfered the money through bitinstant without issue. Updating the first post as well so everyone can see but leaving the thread.
Quote
Hello,
We have had the AML requirement lifted from your account as Bitcoinica no longer wishes to pursue this case. Our apologies for the inconvenience caused.
Thanks,
MtGox.com Team
We have had the AML requirement lifted from your account as Bitcoinica no longer wishes to pursue this case. Our apologies for the inconvenience caused.
Thanks,
MtGox.com Team
I transfered the money through bitinstant without issue. Updating the first post as well so everyone can see but leaving the thread.
Good thing Zhoutong decided to drop it, or you'd be fucked.
I hope you don't do any more business with MtGox... "scam me once, shame on you."
March 28, 2012, 11:57:00 PM
update
I transfered the money through bitinstant without issue. Updating the first post as well so everyone can see but leaving the thread.
Quote
Hello,
We have had the AML requirement lifted from your account as Bitcoinica no longer wishes to pursue this case. Our apologies for the inconvenience caused.
Thanks,
MtGox.com Team
We have had the AML requirement lifted from your account as Bitcoinica no longer wishes to pursue this case. Our apologies for the inconvenience caused.
Thanks,
MtGox.com Team
I transfered the money through bitinstant without issue. Updating the first post as well so everyone can see but leaving the thread.
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March 28, 2012, 11:24:59 AM
Quote
It's not a matter of individual decisions. As a means of exchange it depends on group dynamics, and the truth of the matter is that MtGox has a stronghold powerful enough to steer practices and usage. And they're doing it.
This is a joke at best. MtGox is about as important for bitcoin from this perspective as James Bowman Lindsay was for the electric industry. Ever even heard of him? Didn't think so.
MtGox has the simple choice to obey right now or disappear in a few years at a maximum. The impact of either choice to bitcoin itself is comparable to the impact of the Wright character on Global Warming. He gets agitated often and flails arms a lot but how much heat is that going to generate?
I generate quite a lot of heat but it's usual local warming that leads to localized wetness.
March 28, 2012, 11:24:43 AM
Quote
It's not a matter of individual decisions. As a means of exchange it depends on group dynamics, and the truth of the matter is that MtGox has a stronghold powerful enough to steer practices and usage. And they're doing it.
This is a joke at best. MtGox is about as important for bitcoin from this perspective as James Bowman Lindsay was for the electric industry. Ever even heard of him? Didn't think so.
MtGox has the simple choice to obey right now or disappear in a few years at a maximum. The impact of either choice to bitcoin itself is comparable to the impact of the Wright character on Global Warming. He gets agitated often and flails arms a lot but how much heat is that going to generate?
Your analogy is flawed.
MtGox won't kill cryptocurrencies, but it can kill this "brand" for good as things stand right now. A couple more massive fiascos and very few people will trust in the system. Don't underestimate the importance of perception.
March 28, 2012, 10:14:12 AM
Quote
It's not a matter of individual decisions. As a means of exchange it depends on group dynamics, and the truth of the matter is that MtGox has a stronghold powerful enough to steer practices and usage. And they're doing it.
This is a joke at best. MtGox is about as important for bitcoin from this perspective as James Bowman Lindsay was for the electric industry. Ever even heard of him? Didn't think so.
MtGox has the simple choice to obey right now or disappear in a few years at a maximum. The impact of either choice to bitcoin itself is comparable to the impact of the Wright character on Global Warming. He gets agitated often and flails arms a lot but how much heat is that going to generate?
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March 28, 2012, 07:47:00 AM
Have you seen his other posts? As a fellow frothing retard, I don't typically judge people on their other claims in other threads, but Jesus. He's got a hard-on for Bitcoin and MtGox bashing.
Grow up.
I'm just giving my honest opinion in the matter.
I think MtGox is shady as fuck and an outright scam. Actually, so do you IIRC. So what?
Hehe. I had you confused with another more verbal person in that thread, I edited my OP immediately after realizing. And yes, I think MtGox IS Bitcoin at this point and it's fucking retarded and the definition of irony when a large group of spergy libertards create and support a decentralized currency only to quickly support the first centralization effort.
People will use it because it has more volume/traffic and maybe some conveniences. This is a social pattern and I really wish the retards in Bitcoin would wake up and realize that they can't change social norms by developing a new product. They'd need to develop a new society entirely.
The future of Bitcoin is more than likely indebted to the same rich asshole scumbag deceptive dictators that they work so hard to get away from. Oh the irony.
March 28, 2012, 07:46:18 AM
Have you seen his other posts? As a fellow frothing retard, I don't typically judge people on their other claims in other threads, but Jesus. He's got a hard-on for Bitcoin and MtGox bashing.
Grow up.
I'm just giving my honest opinion in the matter.
I think MtGox is shady as fuck and an outright scam. Actually, so do you IIRC. So what?
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