Topic: Mt Gox thinks it's the Fed. Freezes acc based on "tainted" coins. (unlocked now) - page 4. (Read 17894 times)

MtGox handles ~80% of all exchange trade. When people buy bitcoins on OTC or in person or so forth that doesn't show up as exchange trade. When people buy bitcoins by renting equipment from miners that doesn't show up as exchange trade. These two markets are each larger than the exchange trade, so MtGox handles maybe 20 to 35% of "traded bitcoins", and this mostly because trading bitcoins for actual items is rare and low ticket yet. Somebody was offering to sell a house for bitcoins, and so this third market is probably going to baloon larger than MtGox's in the near future.

In short no, MtGox is not nearly as important as it makes itself out to be, nor does it have much of a future at the current rate of misbehaviour.

While I have heard this many times, and have used Intersango, and understand that they have the respect of well respected members of the community, I have serious concern about
- 1) their repeated discovery of other exchanges security flaws
combined with
- 2) the manner in which they bring this (apparently) to the public attention before alerting their competitor that they have been engaged in #1.

This is one of the first things I saw online about Intersango (in fact it was BTC-e's response to the blog post about their security flaw they sounded pissed). I have seen this at least one other time, very recently.

While this may be completely benevolent, and performed as a service to the community, it raises some red flags. Are they trying to discredit competition? Are they trying to break in? If so, why, and would my information be safe with them?

These are the types of questions that one must ask when one competitor repeatedly discovers security flaws in others. Each repetition makes the behavior more suspect.

As I would like to have an additional exchange that I truly trust, and as there seems to be some relationship (at least in overlapping people) with the GLBSE, I would like to find out the whole story here, so that I might be able to trust Intersango. (because, despite the above, they still seem to have the best rep here!)

While on the topic of verification how MT Gox deals with corporate accounts (specifically US based LLCs and C corps)?

It certainly is a boss scam.

Agreed.

Fine, just use the exchange that best fits your needs, then.

I suppose every business tends to comply with the regulations: the more they do, the more probability they are still around after some time.

Others can try to be more on the edge and thus better accomodating some users, but that can lead them to be more easily shut down by the autorities if/when some problem arise.

I for one, hope that every kind of exchange will pop up, for every kind of need

Must be a great scam to consistently handle 90%+ of traded bitcoins

Not all exchanges are necessarily the same.

MtGox is:

- shady as fuck. Basically a scam, with ridiculous ToS to back whatever they want to come up with.
- a proven incompetent shop.

* not all exchanges want your full details/scanned docs.
* not all exchanges have ToS as ridiculous as MtGox.

@556j
What's the problem in giving mtgox full id card and everything asking for identification?

If you want to remain anonymous you simply need to never touch an (online) exchange again: use only btcs and acquire them only in exchange of cash, hand to hand.

Read this http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/r8s4x/mt_gox_selling_tainted_coins_then_locking/c43x4yh

IMO, if you deposit USD, and receive coins from Mt.Gox, those coins can't be anything but "good" - you didn't deposit tainted coins.

My account is not verified, and I have moved monies in and out of Mt.Gox several times just fine. I have one outstanding small w/d that was lost in process. I am assured this will be cleared up.

I intended to use Gox tomorrow (Monday 03/26) to exchange some USD for some BTC. Now I am concerned and likely won't use Gox with this recent news unless Mark or Staff can answer how they are blocking accounts...

Gox: Are you blocking incoming BTC (into Gox) at the border and not during trades? I mean, if I execute a trade with someone who has some "taint" do I then become tainted?

I am a Level 0 (non-AML) and intended tomorrow to move a few hundred dollars of USD into Gox (< $400), buy coins and transfer BTC out, do I pose a risk of having my account kiked if I accept a "tainted" coin via a trade? How in the hell would I know if a coin is "tainted" during a trade?

If there is the _SLIGHTEST_ chance that my account could be blocked for such activity, I would cease to use Gox. The second to last time I used Gox and tried to do a BTC withdrawal of just 200 BTC they had a "hiccup" in their system, gave me what appeared to be a valid TX ID but never pushed it onto the network. 36 hours later I found it was their hiccup, not mine...via Mark. Fortunately myself and the recipient of the coins were understanding and brushed it away.

I think it would behoove you (Gox) to explain this a little better so those of us who want nothing to do with "tainted" coins can choose how to conduct ourselves.

Thanks!

Sounds good to me and I'm not easy to please.

About 2), did you just send the money back (- cost) to the account of origin? looks like a simple solution.

Cheers.

Good to know. Is the two item list exhaustive?

If you need more details you can contact the support. If you do not want to have to give your ID to anyone, you should limit yourself to Bitcoin and never touch USD/EUR/etc, as those kind of money also come with all kinds of regulations, which we are required to follow. We do not have any "rule for unverified", and while usage of our service usually do not require verification (as long as we stay within normal parameters), anything unusual may trigger a ID verification requirement.

Now, you're talking about "suspicious behavior", which can usually be clarified by contacting the support. In those case, we may need to be able to show your ID to law enforcement or (in case of EUR/USD/etc) see the funds taken back by the bank/financial partner/law enforcement, so we cannot allow deposited funds to be withdrawn, at least until we can confirm your ID.

Nefario made some comments recently where he went beyond his ability and responsibility to answer such sensitive matters on behalf of Intersango. Account freezes have never happened without an investigation and have been extremely rare. They have only happened when someone flagrantly attempted to steal from us or others using our site in an illegal manner.

Incident 1)
A user was advertising a service telling would be customers of his to send funds to Intersango referencing his personal reference code. Users would make a fraudulent bank payment to our bank. His practices were easily seen to be beyond suspicious. (Having many different people, with many different bank accounts deposit to the same Intersango account is already against our policy).

Incident 2)
A person contacted us stating that his personal bank account was hacked into and a SEPA transfer was sent to our business. He was able to state the exact amount of the transfer and the name of the transfer. These details alone prove that he has privileged information as to the transfer and isn't someone just yelling "tainted coins".

+1 we need to take our business elsewhere!  this exchange is way too big already and needs to be listening to what its customers want not the other way around.

That is locking an account because of tainted coins though. You call it "pending review" I guess? But the end result is the same for me, I can't get my money. I didn't trust you with my information so I followed the rules for unverified and still cannot access funds. There was no LE request or proof I was related to the theft. You say "suspicious behavior" which we all know is rubbish, point to the ToS, and use confusing wording to make it seem like I'm under investigation here. It's just unethical and dishonest business practice in my opinion.

thank you very much for this explanation