MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 254.

sturle

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Quote from: bernard75 on October 14, 2013, 11:25:22 AM

The problem is not the bank but Gox obviously lying.
I called and they told me the standard daily limit for a basic company is 100kk PLN converted according to the daily exchange rate in EUR.

Here it is!. Article 26. Feel free to read all of it. A short quote of the most interesting part:

Quote from: European Union

(a) the average of the preceding 12 months' total amount of payment transactions executed by the person concerned, including any agent for which it assumes full responsibility, does not exceed EUR 3 million per month. That requirement shall be assessed on the projected total amount of payment transactions in its business plan, unless an adjustment to that plan is required by the competent authorities; and
[...]

3 million EUR per month =~ 100k EUR / day maximum. Who is lying? At least MtGox agrees with the EU Payment Services Directive 2007/64/EC.

sturle

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Quote from: bernard75 on October 14, 2013, 11:25:22 AM

Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 06:51:00 AM

You are comparing the limits of a personal account, which is ment for personal payments, to a company which process payments on behalf of users, and has to stay below the limits for when it becomes a payment service according to various EU directives and Polish law.

So which is it now? They process payments, which makes them just that under EU law.

Depends on a lot of things. The directive is full of exceptions, pointers to other legislation and grey areas. I will have a look at it some day, but IANAL. I may be wrong. Feel free to get a professional opinion.

Edit: Norwegian law has the same exception as the Polish law, and aproximately the same monthly amount. It refers to the EEA, so I assume it is EU legislation made valid in the entire EEA. I can only find it in Norwegian: http://www.finanstilsynet.no/no/Bank-og-finans/Betalingsforetak/tilsyn-og-overvakning/Krav-til-konsesjon/

gizmoh

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I cannot fathom sturtle to be a samaritan defending Gox without any benefits, it defies logic. This guy has concentrated his posts exclusively on Gox topics, trying to explain gox shortfalls, just like any PR would.
If it looks and smells shitty..make your own judgement.

bernard75

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Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 10:31:02 AM

Quote from: bernard75 on October 14, 2013, 09:09:30 AM

You are just repeating Goxs propaganda. There is no such thing as a transaction limit for PSPs under SEPA.
Probably not. MtGox is not a PSP, so it wouldn't apply to them anyway. Limits for companies which are not PSP may apply to MtGox.

Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 06:51:00 AM

You are comparing the limits of a personal account, which is ment for personal payments, to a company which process payments on behalf of users, and has to stay below the limits for when it becomes a payment service according to various EU directives and Polish law.

So which is it now? They process payments, which makes them just that under EU law.

Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 06:51:00 AM

Quote

I found the directives for you, so you can read up on it yourself:
http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/payments/framework/

Please let me know when you find something relevant in there.

I cant, because its not in there and the banks had to adopt it until 2009.

Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 06:51:00 AM

Quote

It solely depends on the bank and account type you choose:
http://www.bzwbk.pl/firmy/bankowosc-elektroniczna/pakiet-moja-firma-plus/pakiet-moja-firma-plus.html
Point 4: They can withdraw 100kk PLN or 23.5kk EUR daily.
And thats the limit for small businesses with SMS transaction confirmation.
Gox could pay out all BTC in under 50 days at the current exchange rate.

You should call their bank and tell them.

The problem is not the bank but Gox obviously lying.
I called and they told me the standard daily limit for a basic company is 100kk PLN converted according to the daily exchange rate in EUR.

sturle

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Quote from: bernard75 on October 14, 2013, 09:09:30 AM

You are just repeating Goxs propaganda. There is no such thing as a transaction limit for PSPs under SEPA.

Probably not. MtGox is not a PSP, so it wouldn't apply to them anyway. Limits for companies which are not PSP may apply to MtGox.

Quote

Or do you think PP could operate with 25k per day?

Of course not.

Quote

I found the directives for you, so you can read up on it yourself:
http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/payments/framework/

Please let me know when you find something relevant in there.

Quote

It solely depends on the bank and account type you choose:
http://www.bzwbk.pl/firmy/bankowosc-elektroniczna/pakiet-moja-firma-plus/pakiet-moja-firma-plus.html
Point 4: They can withdraw 100kk PLN or 23.5kk EUR daily.
And thats the limit for small businesses with SMS transaction confirmation.
Gox could pay out all BTC in under 50 days at the current exchange rate.

You should call their bank and tell them.

sturle

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Quote from: Erdogan on October 14, 2013, 07:45:04 AM

Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 06:51:00 AM

Quote from: bernard75 on October 14, 2013, 04:40:33 AM

Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 02:00:18 AM

Rad the post earlier in this thread where someone called the bank and asked about MtGox's limit.

This is very strange that you so vigorously defend them and even insult others that point to obvious facts.

You are comparing the limits of a personal account, which is ment for personal payments, to a company which process payments on behalf of users, and has to stay below the limits for when it becomes a payment service according to various EU directives and Polish law. IIRC the limit is 500k EUR/month which should make MtGox's limit only 25k / business day, but there must be a loophole which enable MtGox to do transfer more than that. I haven't had time to look into the laws myself. IANAL.

That was new information. Source?

If I had any reliable sources, I would post them, and IANAL. Here article 118 states a limit of 500k EUR/month, but I don't know if it applies. At least one person pretending to be a lawyer has posted in this thread, and may be able to explain the basics.

papamoi

sr. member

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HI GUYS

i m willing to sue them and i m in my way to find a suitable lawyer in japan

anyone wants to join me in this?

if yes please pm,don t write anything here as they are probably reading us

thanks

bernard75

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Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 06:51:00 AM

Quote from: bernard75 on October 14, 2013, 04:40:33 AM

Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 02:00:18 AM

Rad the post earlier in this thread where someone called the bank and asked about MtGox's limit.

OFC, i will call them today and ask them to transfer me a few thousands, afterall they seem very liberal with other customers informations and very responsive.

This is very strange that you so vigorously defend them and even insult others that point to obvious facts.

You are comparing the limits of a personal account, which is ment for personal payments, to a company which process payments on behalf of users, and has to stay below the limits for when it becomes a payment service according to various EU directives and Polish law. IIRC the limit is 500k EUR/month which should make MtGox's limit only 25k / business day, but there must be a loophole which enable MtGox to do transfer more than that. I haven't had time to look into the laws myself. IANAL.

You are just repeating Goxs propaganda. There is no such thing as a transaction limit for PSPs under SEPA. Or do you think PP could operate with 25k per day?
I found the directives for you, so you can read up on it yourself:
http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/payments/framework/
It solely depends on the bank and account type you choose:
http://www.bzwbk.pl/firmy/bankowosc-elektroniczna/pakiet-moja-firma-plus/pakiet-moja-firma-plus.html
Point 4: They can withdraw 100kk PLN or 23.5kk EUR daily.
And thats the limit for small businesses with SMS transaction confirmation.
Gox could pay out all BTC in under 50 days at the current exchange rate.

Erdogan

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Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 06:51:00 AM

Quote from: bernard75 on October 14, 2013, 04:40:33 AM

Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 02:00:18 AM

Rad the post earlier in this thread where someone called the bank and asked about MtGox's limit.

This is very strange that you so vigorously defend them and even insult others that point to obvious facts.

You are comparing the limits of a personal account, which is ment for personal payments, to a company which process payments on behalf of users, and has to stay below the limits for when it becomes a payment service according to various EU directives and Polish law. IIRC the limit is 500k EUR/month which should make MtGox's limit only 25k / business day, but there must be a loophole which enable MtGox to do transfer more than that. I haven't had time to look into the laws myself. IANAL.

That was new information. Source?

sturle

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Quote from: bernard75 on October 14, 2013, 04:40:33 AM

Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 02:00:18 AM

Rad the post earlier in this thread where someone called the bank and asked about MtGox's limit.

This is very strange that you so vigorously defend them and even insult others that point to obvious facts.

You are comparing the limits of a personal account, which is ment for personal payments, to a company which process payments on behalf of users, and has to stay below the limits for when it becomes a payment service according to various EU directives and Polish law. IIRC the limit is 500k EUR/month which should make MtGox's limit only 25k / business day, but there must be a loophole which enable MtGox to do transfer more than that. I haven't had time to look into the laws myself. IANAL.

bernard75

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Quote from: sturle on October 14, 2013, 02:00:18 AM

Rad the post earlier in this thread where someone called the bank and asked about MtGox's limit.

OFC, i will call them today and ask them to transfer me a few thousands, afterall they seem very liberal with other customers informations and very responsive.

This is very strange that you so vigorously defend them and even insult others that point to obvious facts.

tvbcof

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Quote from: smoothie on October 14, 2013, 04:16:48 AM

It would not surprise me if something did indeed happen that broke the camel's back and Gox was forced to shut down or cause a cascading amount of panic due to any number of things including delay/denial of withdrawals of Bitcoin and/or fiat.

Now that silk road is out of the way the only real big target left is gox. Given we are going to likely hit some volatility in the next 2 to 3 months due to a price increase, breaking news of something happening at gox that isn't good news will create volatility.

Sorry I know this is speculation. Just figured I would post this here for future reference and see if I was right on my call.

Ya, as the run-up was occurring today I was wondering if any of it might have been from people with fiat at Mt. Gox just saying 'fuck it' and buying BTC to get them out. And similarly, those with BTC on account not wanting to convert them to fiat. I guess that could be indicated by noting whether there was a lead or trail in the spread delta between Mt. Gox and other exchanges. But I didn't/don't care enough to look.

As for Mt. Gox being 'the only real big target left', I would say that they are a shell of their former selves in terms of the BTC liquidity that they command. And that is just comparing them to other publicly accessible exchange datasets. I think it likely that in the past several years dark markets have developed for the big timers to play, and they probably dwarf the public exchanges where small time wankers do their thing. OTOH, it is possible and not unlikely that Mt. Gox is a big part of the dark pool game to I suppose.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

It would not surprise me if something did indeed happen that broke the camel's back and Gox was forced to shut down or cause a cascading amount of panic due to any number of things including delay/denial of withdrawals of Bitcoin and/or fiat.

Now that silk road is out of the way the only real big target left is gox. Given we are going to likely hit some volatility in the next 2 to 3 months due to a price increase, breaking news of something happening at gox that isn't good news will create volatility.

Sorry I know this is speculation. Just figured I would post this here for future reference and see if I was right on my call.

tvbcof

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I meant to file a support ticket after one month, but was to lazy. Now after two months I sent the following:

===========
I wish to know:

1) Has Mt. Gox attempted to wire the funds to my bank? If not, why not?

2) if #1, was there a failure?

3) if #2, what was the failure? Please give me the reference material I need to investigate.

4) If it is unsafe to attempt this transfer due to confiscation, or considered illegal due to U.S. or Japanese regulatory issues, please detail the issues so that I may solicit assistance from my elected representative.
===========

As anticipated I got back boilerplate.

The good news is that I got a response very quickly as has been the case with all of my communications so far with Mt. Gox.

The bad news is, of course, that none of my questions were answered directly. The content of the boilerplate (which includes the always hilarious 'several weeks' phraseology) can only be taken to imply that #1 is the the case. It does not seem to be an issue with my using the wrong name or numbers on my intl wire USD submission, or at least it was not worth the service person's time to check although if a send attempt was not made I guess that might not have been very practical.

gizmoh

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Just noticed on Gox Facebook page, the last post about maintenance was removed and Posts by other users option is now disabled.
They are now trying to hide the long litany of complaints on pending withdrawals..this is so deceptive tactics !

tvbcof

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Quote from: Nagle on October 14, 2013, 02:52:10 AM

Quote from: tvbcof on October 14, 2013, 01:25:22 AM

Why don't you go for it and stop calling others 'sheep'?

Because I don't have any money in Mt. Gox.

Lame excuse. It's still relatively easy to get money into Mt. Gox as I understand things. It was a matter of sending in some BTC for me. Took a matter of seconds.

Nagle

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Quote from: tvbcof on October 14, 2013, 01:25:22 AM

Why don't you go for it and stop calling others 'sheep'?

Because I don't have any money in Mt. Gox.

sturle

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Quote from: Frizz23 on October 13, 2013, 10:10:15 PM

Quote from: sturle on October 13, 2013, 12:33:07 PM

... and EUR withdrawals via SEPA works as it always has.

You must be on drugs. A year ago SEPA withdrawals really only took a few days to get through. Now it takes weeks and weeks.

The people posting here are probably just kidding then?

sturle

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Quote from: bernard75 on October 13, 2013, 09:06:17 PM

Quote from: sturle on October 13, 2013, 05:47:48 PM

The delay is quite predictable based on EUR volume at MtGox, and the cause for SEPA delay is the same as it has always been.

So you are finally accepting that Gox simply doesnt have the cash to pay out everybody.

Are you dense?

Quote

And please no more misleading infos about the "daily limit":

This is not even a business account, but one can withdraw 1kkk PLN or 23kk+ EUR a day from WBK by a lousy SMS confirmation.
Hypothetically they could pay out all BTC that exist in under 50 days by SEPA.

Rad the post earlier in this thread where someone called the bank and asked about MtGox's limit.

tvbcof

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Quote from: joesmoe2012 on October 14, 2013, 01:39:34 AM

I have faith in MtGox.

Several years ago I was hoping that Karpeles was a crook and Mt. Gox would do something sleazy since I was positioned to take advantage of that. Mark let me down by being more honest and capable than about 95% of the rest of the operators in the community. Ah well. Bitcoin has been pretty damn good to me so far anyway. And with some luck, we are just getting warmed up.

Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 254. (Read 908613 times)