Scam would imply intent to harm, I do not believe there was intent, just mismanagement, poor judgement, and up til now an unwillingness to correct it.
Topic: My 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH complaint against Stake.com (Read 1170 times)
I do not believe this thread should have been moved to scam accusations.
I hope it can be moved back to the gambling forum
I hope it can be moved back to the gambling forum
The thing is that he did not ask for self exclusion. He did not follow self exclusion policy. If he did he would be permanently banned and would never had a chance to be unbanned.
What he did with his vip host asking for casino ban then asking to remove it etc was all unofficial and without any policy being followed. It was just good will on his vip host to help him out and fulfill his request for casino exclusion.
Also user had multiple accounts so even if he excluded 1 of his accounts by the policy he would continue to gamble on his other accounts or create new ones.
We are very responsible when it comes to gambling and being aware of the dangers of it. But unfortunately the simple fact is that casinos can only do so much to help you. If you want to continue gambling there is nothing any casino can do to rly stop you.
There are tons of crypto, fiat and real casinos where you can continue gambling even if one casino could find a way to stop you for good.
So please be responsible and if you notice you have problem with gambling seek for professional who will help you fight your addiction.
What he did with his vip host asking for casino ban then asking to remove it etc was all unofficial and without any policy being followed. It was just good will on his vip host to help him out and fulfill his request for casino exclusion.
Also user had multiple accounts so even if he excluded 1 of his accounts by the policy he would continue to gamble on his other accounts or create new ones.
We are very responsible when it comes to gambling and being aware of the dangers of it. But unfortunately the simple fact is that casinos can only do so much to help you. If you want to continue gambling there is nothing any casino can do to rly stop you.
There are tons of crypto, fiat and real casinos where you can continue gambling even if one casino could find a way to stop you for good.
So please be responsible and if you notice you have problem with gambling seek for professional who will help you fight your addiction.
https://prnt.sc/znicwi
https://prnt.sc/znig7r
https://prnt.sc/znino6
Thanks for your input, but as you can see above i followed the correct protocol in place at the time.
You can keep playing games with words and meanings, but the intent is clear.
No you did not. Self exclusion is not same as casino exclusion. We do not have policy for casino exclusion that was only option for our sportsbook players that wanted to clear the clutter with casino and games and only be able to play on sportsbook because that is what they came for on stake.
You clearly stated you do not want your account banned.
Stake has stated they were aware of my gambling issues, encouraged me not to gamble, but did nothing because "I wouldnt have liked it"
I request permanent self casino exclusions after Stake is aware of my issues
Stake removes it with one casual TG message
Admits poor judgement
Keeps all funds.
Have I got your position correct ?
And why does every Stake admin in this thread keep ignoring this?
https://prnt.sc/znino6
Clearly says players can request a casino exclusion and it will be honored and not removed if protocol is followed, which at the time was to request via live chat.
As you can see when that message was posted. It was after this case. We are improving our exclusion policy and because of this case we are making it so if user requires casino exclusion and follows the protocol how to request it won't be possible to remove it.
Also the screenshot you posted with support agent Andrija, you did not make from your account that you are arguing about here.
On this account you requested it from your vip host and then also requested from your vip host to be removed.
And also you had one more request 6 months ago where after cool off period of 24h you said to "Leave casino unblocked"
We have said everything here. I wont be continuing in this topic.
If you wanted to stop gambling you would need to follow simple procedure to get your account permanently banned as per our policy.
I am sorry that unfortunately even that wouldn't be enough to stop you from gambling or our casino or any other casino.
As stunna mentioned we will keep improving our policies and we will always try to help our users with gambling problems to find solutions and stop gambling.
I really hope its not intentional but this is yet another false statement by a Stake admin.
I would appreciate you checking again, and correcting this misinformation or are you guys intentionally trying to mislead the community ?
That screen shot is 100% from the account i requested the permanent self exclusion on, which was granted, and then later removed by the owner in June 2020
On this same account in september 2020 i requested another perm casino exclusion directly to the owner and it was granted.
thank you for pointing out the owner literally told me "let me know if you change your mind'
What a thing to say to someone who you know has gambling issues and just requested yet another permanent exclusion
Also, stop saying "host" as if it was some low level employee who didnt know better. It was the OWNER OF THE SITE.
The thing is that he did not ask for self exclusion. He did not follow self exclusion policy. If he did he would be permanently banned and would never had a chance to be unbanned.
What he did with his vip host asking for casino ban then asking to remove it etc was all unofficial and without any policy being followed. It was just good will on his vip host to help him out and fulfill his request for casino exclusion.
Also user had multiple accounts so even if he excluded 1 of his accounts by the policy he would continue to gamble on his other accounts or create new ones.
We are very responsible when it comes to gambling and being aware of the dangers of it. But unfortunately the simple fact is that casinos can only do so much to help you. If you want to continue gambling there is nothing any casino can do to rly stop you.
There are tons of crypto, fiat and real casinos where you can continue gambling even if one casino could find a way to stop you for good.
So please be responsible and if you notice you have problem with gambling seek for professional who will help you fight your addiction.
What he did with his vip host asking for casino ban then asking to remove it etc was all unofficial and without any policy being followed. It was just good will on his vip host to help him out and fulfill his request for casino exclusion.
Also user had multiple accounts so even if he excluded 1 of his accounts by the policy he would continue to gamble on his other accounts or create new ones.
We are very responsible when it comes to gambling and being aware of the dangers of it. But unfortunately the simple fact is that casinos can only do so much to help you. If you want to continue gambling there is nothing any casino can do to rly stop you.
There are tons of crypto, fiat and real casinos where you can continue gambling even if one casino could find a way to stop you for good.
So please be responsible and if you notice you have problem with gambling seek for professional who will help you fight your addiction.
https://prnt.sc/znicwi
https://prnt.sc/znig7r
https://prnt.sc/znino6
Thanks for your input, but as you can see above i followed the correct protocol in place at the time.
You can keep playing games with words and meanings, but the intent is clear.
No you did not. Self exclusion is not same as casino exclusion. We do not have policy for casino exclusion that was only option for our sportsbook players that wanted to clear the clutter with casino and games and only be able to play on sportsbook because that is what they came for on stake.
You clearly stated you do not want your account banned.
Stake has stated they were aware of my gambling issues, encouraged me not to gamble, but did nothing because "I wouldnt have liked it"
I request permanent self casino exclusions after Stake is aware of my issues
Stake removes it with one casual TG message
Admits poor judgement
Keeps all funds.
Have I got your position correct ?
And why does every Stake admin in this thread keep ignoring this?
https://prnt.sc/znino6
Clearly says players can request a casino exclusion and it will be honored and not removed if protocol is followed, which at the time was to request via live chat.
What is the purpose of offering a permanent self casino exclusion if it will not be honored or treated seriously ?
Is it just a charade ? I cant believe you are really arguing this.
Is it just a charade ? I cant believe you are really arguing this.
The thing is that he did not ask for self exclusion. He did not follow self exclusion policy. If he did he would be permanently banned and would never had a chance to be unbanned.
What he did with his vip host asking for casino ban then asking to remove it etc was all unofficial and without any policy being followed. It was just good will on his vip host to help him out and fulfill his request for casino exclusion.
Also user had multiple accounts so even if he excluded 1 of his accounts by the policy he would continue to gamble on his other accounts or create new ones.
We are very responsible when it comes to gambling and being aware of the dangers of it. But unfortunately the simple fact is that casinos can only do so much to help you. If you want to continue gambling there is nothing any casino can do to rly stop you.
There are tons of crypto, fiat and real casinos where you can continue gambling even if one casino could find a way to stop you for good.
So please be responsible and if you notice you have problem with gambling seek for professional who will help you fight your addiction.
What he did with his vip host asking for casino ban then asking to remove it etc was all unofficial and without any policy being followed. It was just good will on his vip host to help him out and fulfill his request for casino exclusion.
Also user had multiple accounts so even if he excluded 1 of his accounts by the policy he would continue to gamble on his other accounts or create new ones.
We are very responsible when it comes to gambling and being aware of the dangers of it. But unfortunately the simple fact is that casinos can only do so much to help you. If you want to continue gambling there is nothing any casino can do to rly stop you.
There are tons of crypto, fiat and real casinos where you can continue gambling even if one casino could find a way to stop you for good.
So please be responsible and if you notice you have problem with gambling seek for professional who will help you fight your addiction.
https://prnt.sc/znicwi
https://prnt.sc/znig7r
https://prnt.sc/znino6
Thanks for your input, but as you can see above i followed the correct protocol in place at the time.
You can keep playing games with words and meanings, but the intent is clear.
Again a stake admin mentions multiple accounts. I did not evade any bans with multiple accounts. It is also your stated policy that when a self ban is requested all known linked accounts also received the self ban.
Please state for the record my accounts were unknown to the owner and grant me permission to post the private conversations that blow this disingenuous argument out of the water
Consider: if Stake does return any amount, you have just carved out a new niche for people to exploit. What a lovely precedent! Think about it, too, as it's a conflict of interest for the casino - of course they would want you to revoke the self-exclusion - easy 'free bets'.
It's an unfortunate situation but I simply do not see any reasonable way you will get your money back.
It's an unfortunate situation but I simply do not see any reasonable way you will get your money back.
There have been quite some instances where books have returned the funds, thats why NO reputable book will overturn a permanent self exclusion
Thats the thing. Stake is attempting to say a permanent self casino ban is different, and they have no obligation to honor it... despite offering it as an option on their site, despite asking me if i wanted a permanent casino ban or for a set period of time. Despite confirming that I was approved for a permanent self casino ban.
What a thing to argue.
We do not differentiate sports betting & casino betting as different forms of gambling. If you have a problem then both should be avoided.
Why are you saying the complete opposite now that I have raised a complaint ? Greetings, I am considering moving my action to Stake, but at times i struggle with self control in the casino.
If I ask for a permanent ban in the casino and to only bet on sports
#1 Will that ban be granted?
#2 Is there any condition that it would be removed once granted?
#3 Hypothetically, if for any reason it was removed, and I lost more money in casino, what would happen?
Ty for your time
If I ask for a permanent ban in the casino and to only bet on sports
#1 Will that ban be granted?
#2 Is there any condition that it would be removed once granted?
#3 Hypothetically, if for any reason it was removed, and I lost more money in casino, what would happen?
Ty for your time
1. Yes, you can self exclude on the casino but still bet on sports. Support can help you do this, there are a fair few sports bettors that have done this.
2. It will not be removed if process is followed correctly and a permanent restriction is requested.
3. It really depends on the circumstance but our strict policy is not to remove self-exclusion. Has this happened for you elsewhere?
https://prnt.sc/znino6
You were upset that I contacted you anonymously and asked, but it seems I had good reason to.
Yes i will, and Yes I do have proof
Although, I dont think Stake/Stunna is denying it, hes just upset that I asked him anonymously
the multiple account thing is pretty irrelevant, I think it was mentioned by Stake to "muddy the waters" they werent used to evade a ban, and if they were I would have no claim on those losses. It's also their own policy to ban known linked accounts in the event you ask for an exclusion
If Stake wants to dispute knowledge of my other accounts, Ill post the private telegram messages, proving otherwise, altho I dont see this as a relevant issue
It's hard to judge on the internet, but if you really have a gambling problem, find professional help. A casino can do a lot, they can exclude you, ban you, but you'll always find a way to get back in, which you've done with different accounts according to Stunna. And if you can't, you'll just find yourself another place to gamble.
Here is a website for professional help:
Gambling Therapy – https://www.gamblingtherapy.org
Here is a website for professional help:
Gambling Therapy – https://www.gamblingtherapy.org
Did not use different accounts to evade a permanent self ban.
Multiple accounts existed which were being used for affiliate purposes at owners request
Also, according to their own policy, at time of self ban request, any known linked accounts will also be excluded.
The best way to solve is to come to an agreement, where the user will get at least something from his deposits back.
If Stake.com is refusing, you should contact the master license holder. If they are not responding, write the gambling commission in Curacao.
If Stake.com is refusing, you should contact the master license holder. If they are not responding, write the gambling commission in Curacao.
Thats not something Im interested in pursuing. I appreciate the insight tho.
Stake is hiding behind word play and technicalities, and I imagine that would be successful in a legal setting.
I expected them to realize the intent, and honor the spirit of responsible gambling, and correct mistakes.
I did not expect them to argue a difference between "pemanent casino exclusion" and "permanent self exclusion"
Shout out to the user @plen who coined "spirit of responsible gambling" I keep using it.
You raise some fair points, the crux of all of this is that we need to make improvements to our exclusion system and make it simple and straightforward. The only aspect of this I did not appreciate is the way you handled the actual complaint process where you apparently deleted your record of telegram messages and then sent me anonymous messages trying to pre-meditate this claim. Otherwise it would have been handled more amicably from my side. I will personally see that changes are made and update you on my progress.
[/quote]
So, you decided not to help or be reasonable, because I wanted to get an unbiased answer to my questions?
You say I pre-meditated this complaint.
I was thoughtful, and wanted to make sure I had a valid claim, while i agonized over whether or not to pursue it because I knew the potential consequences
Hi, I found this thread when searching around regarding Stake and their responsible gaming "process".
I was in what I think a similar situation(although not a lot of money) , where I requested an account closure due to gambling problem, but stake instead forced a Cooling Down period on me, letting me log in again after that period.
It is sad to read, that they defend this way of dealing with responsible gaming, and put it on the player to be responsible. They can not understand the situation they create, and is worrying. Its the only casino that have not acted on an account closure request, so please be aware of playing on this site..
More info on the separate issue here https://casino.guru/stake-casino-player-s-attempt-to-self-exclude-from
I was in what I think a similar situation(although not a lot of money) , where I requested an account closure due to gambling problem, but stake instead forced a Cooling Down period on me, letting me log in again after that period.
It is sad to read, that they defend this way of dealing with responsible gaming, and put it on the player to be responsible. They can not understand the situation they create, and is worrying. Its the only casino that have not acted on an account closure request, so please be aware of playing on this site..
More info on the separate issue here https://casino.guru/stake-casino-player-s-attempt-to-self-exclude-from
All what these idiots are ranting here is just plan stupid. If the guy won 13btc he should be paid. I stopped backing up all these guys that come to btc to scream once they get scammed because I gain nothing from it. What's the point assisiting someone get back hundreds of thousands when I get nothing in return.
Well back to the main issue. Stake has no reason to steal a players money
Idk the reason you pump this thread, but based on OP, we know if OP didn't won anything from stakeWell back to the main issue. Stake has no reason to steal a players money
Quote
(The 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH is the amount I have lost in their casino since the permanent self casino ban was approved and issued to my account)
It was only because he keep depositing after his ban request then started to lose because of he is addicted of gambling. Judging from the amount, he certainly feel regret to gamble his money i think.
All what these idiots are ranting here is just plan stupid. If the guy won 13btc he should be paid. I stopped backing up all these guys that come to btc to scream once they get scammed because I gain nothing from it. What's the point assisiting someone get back hundreds of thousands when I get nothing in return.
Well back to the main issue. Stake has no reason to steal a players money
Idk the reason you pump this thread, but based on OP, we know if OP didn't won anything from stakeWell back to the main issue. Stake has no reason to steal a players money
Quote
(The 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH is the amount I have lost in their casino since the permanent self casino ban was approved and issued to my account)
It was only because he keep depositing after his ban request then started to lose because of he is addicted of gambling. Judging from the amount, he certainly feel regret to gamble his money i think.
All what these idiots are ranting here is just plan stupid. If the guy won 13btc he should be paid. I stopped backing up all these guys that come to btc to scream once they get scammed because I gain nothing from it. What's the point assisiting someone get back hundreds of thousands when I get nothing in return.
Well back to the main issue. Stake has no reason to steal a players money
Well back to the main issue. Stake has no reason to steal a players money
The ultimate question (besides my curiosity of how someone who would gamble away 13 BTC could have amassed such an amount) is if you were to have won dozens of BTC after your self casino ban, would you have been OK with Stake.com refusing to pay out the winnings because you should have been banned? I suspect your answer would be no. Certainly in that situation you would have a much better argument that would lead to more people supporting you.
Your hypothetical scenario shouldn't have taken place in the first place.
Proper gambling sites don't allow a self-excluded account to be reopened, period.
If a user opens a 2nd account with an attempt to circumvent the system - then and only then - the user is 100% at fault.
I had a similar case with a much smaller website and they did pay me after I started legal proceedings against them.
Stake must not repeat that mistake and if they want to keep their reputation high they need to pay the user or reach a settlement.
We are sorry that his vip host removed his casino ban that was indeed wrong
Normally and ethically, such "sorry" should be accompanied with a settlement. It's not enough to say sorry after having such an incident.
First of all stake officially says there are no multiple accounts allowed, him opening a new one should trigger their "sophisticated security system" and he shouldn't be allowed to play.
Still stake forum mods/admin several times wrote in the forum that multiple accounts are allowed.
And stake 1 person doesn't know what the other one is doing, little bit ridiculous.
They blocked my account because they suspected me to have 1 more account and it was such a big deal. Waited more than 7 days (without reply) for ID verification and then finally I got my account back.
Very bad experience I must say.
The ultimate question (besides my curiosity of how someone who would gamble away 13 BTC could have amassed such an amount) is if you were to have won dozens of BTC after your self casino ban, would you have been OK with Stake.com refusing to pay out the winnings because you should have been banned? I suspect your answer would be no. Certainly in that situation you would have a much better argument that would lead to more people supporting you.
Your hypothetical scenario shouldn't have taken place in the first place.
Proper gambling sites don't allow a self-excluded account to be reopened, period.
If a user opens a 2nd account with an attempt to circumvent the system - then and only then - the user is 100% at fault.
I had a similar case with a much smaller website and they did pay me after I started legal proceedings against them.
Stake must not repeat that mistake and if they want to keep their reputation high they need to pay the user or reach a settlement.
We are sorry that his vip host removed his casino ban that was indeed wrong
Normally and ethically, such "sorry" should be accompanied with a settlement. It's not enough to say sorry after having such an incident.
I really don't know whether to laugh or be mad at you. So what you are complaining is basically, indirectly it's stake's fault that you lost that much amount of money because they removed your self-exclusion? That makes zero sense as, you could easily create another account and gamble it all away. Or you might have gone to other casinos and gambled and lost there. Again, it was you who asked to remove the ban. I agree that stake is maybe at fault of letting you play there again after your permanent ban request, but that doesn't mean they forced you to play? Question is, would you have complained had you won rather than losing? Stake also should make sure they actually reinforce bans properly and not allow permanent banned members to play at their site again.
What you write does not make sense. He has clearly indicated that it concerns 1 account. And yes, if he had created other accounts and lost money with them, it would have been his own fault. But that is not the case. The point is that he used 1 account, and that Stake.com should have kept this account closed. It should never have been reopened. A gambling addiction must be taken seriously by every gambling site and stake is also required to comply with this due to rules of the gambling committee. I think you have a strong case if you want to keep this going. It's about too much money.
Just lol dude, by backing him up you are basically saying that gambling on sports is not gambling while gambling on casino is gambling. If he has a gambling addiction then that goes for gambling in general, not just gambling on casino, no? You guys are just ridiculous lol
I mean don't get me wrong, I wish you the best of luck with this case but you are just wasting your time man.
I really don't know whether to laugh or be mad at you. So what you are complaining is basically, indirectly it's stake's fault that you lost that much amount of money because they removed your self-exclusion? That makes zero sense as, you could easily create another account and gamble it all away. Or you might have gone to other casinos and gambled and lost there. Again, it was you who asked to remove the ban. I agree that stake is maybe at fault of letting you play there again after your permanent ban request, but that doesn't mean they forced you to play? Question is, would you have complained had you won rather than losing? Stake also should make sure they actually reinforce bans properly and not allow permanent banned members to play at their site again.
What you write does not make sense. He has clearly indicated that it concerns 1 account. And yes, if he had created other accounts and lost money with them, it would have been his own fault. But that is not the case. The point is that he used 1 account, and that Stake.com should have kept this account closed. It should never have been reopened. A gambling addiction must be taken seriously by every gambling site and stake is also required to comply with this due to rules of the gambling committee. I think you have a strong case if you want to keep this going. It's about too much money.
What is this thread supposed to be, then? Christ, you are incompetent. We are just going in circles.
Also, could you stop with the double spaces?
Also, could you stop with the double spaces?
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