Topic: My 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH complaint against Stake.com - page 3. (Read 1153 times)

Fair points on both sides, but I think the laws in developed countries would simply ask that the casino enforce the "permanent" ban. It is the right of the gambler to ask for this,,, and if he had bypassed by making another account then it would be on him. I think it is just a issue of ethicality that casinos are not allowed to take advantage of people with gambling problems.

I agree on one hand it is an individual problem but if the individual has come forth to say he has this problem,,, then the casino must do its part to help the individual. Sad case always and I do not think anybody is wrong here.

This is not a 13 BTC complaint however. It is a complaint on enforcement of ban situation.

Do you deny the fact that you have, two times in a row, personally contacted and pressured the VIP host into removing the self-administered ban YOU have imposed upon yourself? Yes or no question.

At this point, there is not much to be discussed anymore. YOU had requested the ban be lifted from you TWICE. The casino is not responsible for your destructive addictions. Had you not had a 'special' relationship with the owner, things might've gone differently, but you have exploited that relationship to get your way around. Then you come here all surprised and 'woe-is-me' that you've lost it all.
 
YOU are the CULPRIT. The thought of gambling away 0.05 BTC wouldn't even cross my mind, let alone 13 BTC. Better stick to your affiliate income from now on, that's something I wish I had.

Dude, if you really have a gambling addiction, you should've requested Self- Exclusion. Gambling on sports is still gambling, not much different than casino.

Casino- Exclusion is not regulated and it is not in their policies. They are probably offering that so the players can cool off after a bad streak or smth and they have no obligation to honor that Casino- Exclusion since it's not regulated. They can simply do what the player wants/ requests.

But the Self- Exclusion is something completely different. If this was the Self- Exclusion instead of Casino- Exclusion, you would have a case.

Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but as one of the previous posts said, you should take responsibility for your actions. 

Since you know the owners. I think this could be solved by simply talking to them. Over the phone or whatever means both parties are comfortable with. The mudslinging festival for public to see and aren't fully aware of the terms/circumstances is kinda pointless, other than the defaming each other aspect.

It's disappointing to see one of the top Stake gamblers being treated like this despite the proof that you provided. I expected them to return a portion of your funds at the very least, but I was wrong clearly.

I still like Stake, but this case made me lose a good deal of respect for them. I advise you not to trust gambling sites regarding anything blindly. Instead, focus on trying to control your own gambling addiction.

I guess the part I struggle with, is assuming stake (incorrectly) allowed you to gamble again ... does that really make them responsible for the (direct) course of actions that happened after (i.e. you losing your money)?

I honestly don't know, I feel like I can make a strong argument both ways. But I don't really think a public forum is an ideal way to solve an issue like this. I notice in Stake's Terms of Service they offer the option to seek arbitration with the Hong Kong International Arbitration Centre.  If you can't reach an amicable solution, it seems like it might be best to let a 3rd party decide?

You did not self-exclude from the website.

You turned down the self-exclusion program and asked support to basically have the casino inaccessible to you which is not apart of self exclusion. Then you went directly to your VIP manager to have that flag removed in the future. Stake has never had any formal protocol around this block casino flag that was asked for by a few sports players. Our self exclusion policy can be found here. https://stake.com/policies/self-exclusion We do not differentiate sports betting & casino betting as different forms of gambling. If you have a problem then both should be avoided.

Also I've identified that you had been using multiple accounts on casino the entire time even recently so I do not see how even if we had done this readily if it would have been preventative enough. What is clear to me is that the entire self-exclusion process should be a self-service system and involve a ban of the entire platform.

I'm unable to even be more thorough in my correspondence and even make a fair argument because you have screenshotted what you wanted and then deleted all other logs.

You raise some fair points, the crux of all of this is that we need to make improvements to our exclusion system and make it simple and straightforward. The only aspect of this I did not appreciate is the way you handled the actual complaint process where you apparently deleted your record of telegram messages and then sent me anonymous messages trying to pre-meditate this claim. Otherwise it would have been handled more amicably from my side. I will personally see that changes are made and update you on my progress.

This is definitely not a good look for Stake but I do think the complaint being laid out here is quite biased as well. This user first off lost the vast majority of those funds sportsbetting which they did not request a block from and almost all if not all the funds were earned from the stake affiliate program They were on a number of occasions encouraged to stop betting and stick to referring players to the casino but did not agree with doing a self exclusion. 

I find this claim a bit questionable given both the amounts claimed and because they were messaging me anonymously trying to build up this argument while continuing to bet under the impression that they would get reimbursed. If you were to make an unbiased claim you would have suggested that it would be the amount of money that you lost on the casino after this restriction was removed. It is very convenient but unfair argument to look at crypto prices being what they are and demanding all your historical losses back over the past year or two.

Last year this player specifically asked to have just the casino blocked, instead of your account fully restricted/banned. (full self exclusion). This was just a simple flag added to your account to block access to the casino.  Then they went to their VIP manager directly who you had a unique relationship with as a major affiliate and asked him to remove the flag.  Since this is not a self exclusion and has no surrounding protocol, he reluctantly obliged under pressure.

There was no ill intent here, even in your conversations you sent me you are repeatedly encouraged to stop spending all your affiliate earnings on Stake. Clearly some poor protocol and judgement on our side. With our self-exclusion system any player who goes through the correct process will never have their account unrestricted. As I stated in my previous messages to you, I recommended you cease gambling entirely when you told me you had issues with the casino only but were still sports betting, self exclusion really only works if a player is ceasing all gambling. This whole 'block casino only' thing was really just a incentive provided to the player when they asked. This however did not fall under the umbrella of the self-exclusion program which is perhaps an oversight.

Please see https://stake.com/policies/self-exclusion it was poor judgement on our side that we did not sooner ban your account when you were displaying issues with gambling, at many points you were encouraged to control your betting, it is obviously a challenging situation for both sides because you did not want to stop and would not have reacted well to having your account banned at that point.

There has already been an internal convo regarding all of this and we will make improvements to our protocol and we sincerely apologize for not serving you better. The decision to make is whether or not to weave blocking one part of the website into self-exclusion protocols or whether to just encourage full self exclusion only.

I can assure you the totals I have posted are losses in the casino after the permanent self casino ban,   not total wagers.

Here are my total wagers,  I know the difference ...


https://prnt.sc/zs0jbi

The issue here isn't what OP would have done had the ban was not revoked. Would he have created another account, or would have gambled at some place? Those points are really moot. Its about what happened, and not IFs and buts.

Point is, Why was their "Permanent Casino Ban" revoked in the first place? When it was supposed to be permanent?
Gambling addiction's  real... And In this case it has really hurt op despite him doing the right thing, and asking for "Permanent ban".

And, its true, lot of places refuse the winnings if they find out you had requested a ban and came back to gamble again under an alt or something.

Instead of saying op was looking for free bets... What if it was Stake? They would have been protected by their TOS and could have rightly refused the winnings, and if he kept sinking the money and losing the money there's no question of payout.


All my sympathies to you OP, Hopefully you can settle this amicably with stake.

Its one of the good books out there, at least I think so. And where my major action's at anyways.

You are blaming them because you Lose a lot ? as they did not Banned you permanently ? is this what your claims means?

For me personally ? you must not blame anyone from your own mistake and addiction , it is you who asked several times so that means in your faith that they allow you to play again.

Just Move on man and better to try change your account password and recovery details using a very Hard to memorize one , then forget everything , so from then you can only play creating new account ( in which bannable offence) or never play at all.

Sorry for your sad story but we as gamblers has our own bad side also.

I am still addicted and lost around 20,000$ (This was everything I had back then) on stake a year ago and it was devasting to me. Today I store my money at a very trustable business partner I worked a long time with. Since then I got more control over myself.

I am still gambling sometimes and I fall right into my habits again of firstly thinking „I can loose this money without the need to win it back if I do loose it“ but if I do actually loose it I still deposit again until my wallet is empty...

It’s not over yet for me but my friend helped me, without his help I’d be broke again a while ago already.

What also helped me was when I found out about different investments where my investment withdraw is freezed for atleast 72 hours. It’s like a barrier because even if I want to withdraw I need to wait 3 days, this often makes me overthink it when I am tempted to „throw“ everything I have into keno.

Everytime I got a win I am partly throwing some into such investments. Some of them are bankrolls of crypto casinos or streaming platforms such as Dlive with daily dividends.

Im in the wrong then with the screenshots, sorry to accuse you with that but I am trying to understand why you wouldn’t stop earlier and invest the funds to be able to live off it completely passively for the rest of your life instead of just throwing it into a gigantic money shredder.

I guess it was needed to create yourself a lesson.

Or the money wasn’t acquired the „right“ way and you felt it has to go.

Agree, Stake controls whether they leave themselves open to exploitation or not.


While your 2nd point is reasonable i dont think it relieves Stake of their responsibility.      Maybe they didnt want me gambling somewhere else ?


But ill use an analogy here...


Say  you own a bar...     and theres a drunk customer,  and you keep serving him and serving him,     he goes and has an accident of some kind...      do you think the defense of  "well if i didnt serve him, he would have found another way to drink"    would hold up?

From a gamblers perspective this would also be unfair to other gamblers on stake because you could also just won 100btc and be gone... the whole thing you are doing could be planned from the very beginning since you took all those screenshots of conversations with the support from the very beginning. I find it hard to believe that somebody would do this on a simple question, you didn’t had any problems back then with the support I guess.

Im not saying you did this on purpose but it kinda seems to me that way.

My guess is you lost a lot more before and you tried to either win it back or loose it all and plan a accusation like this.

That is indeed an interesting point. They excuse themselves from a lot of responsibility in the event that you gamble again with a different account, which from this screenshot alone looks like they do not address their liability in a situation where you are able to wager again through their inability to enforce the ban. While I don’t think that makes them liable, I guess that gives you an angle to try and justify a settlement. I suspect any payment would be made to show their commitment to address gambling addiction and not because they are at fault in any legal sense, which I don’t believe them to be. At best you could say their system malfunctioned and allowed you to gain access to wagers again leading to your losses, but I don’t think that excuses your personal responsibility. They could even argue you were taking advantage of a website malfunction and in essence hacking their system to try and profit.

Thanks mate,   its a tough battle for sure,   has left me staring in the mirror multiple occasions asking myself what the hell is wrong with me


Gambling gives me my greatest thrills and my greatest pains...   I'm sure you feel the same way

The ultimate question (besides my curiosity of how someone who would gamble away 13 BTC could have amassed such an amount) is if you were to have won dozens of BTC after your self casino ban, would you have been OK with Stake.com refusing to pay out the winnings because you should have been banned? I suspect your answer would be no. Certainly in that situation you would have a much better argument that would lead to more people supporting you.

The best thing you can do is chalk it up to a learning experience and seek help for your addiction before it destroys your life beyond the loss of some crypto. If I’m wrong and you have a legitimate case then I wish you luck in whatever outcome is deserving.