Nefario - page 76. | Bitcointalksearch.org

theymos

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Quote from: SebastianJu on October 06, 2012, 02:17:52 PM

@Theymos Do you know someone able to access the database of glbse so that you can make a backup just in case? I dont want to hear at one time that all data is lost or something. Or that i have to join a new platform to get my shares and joining the new platform wouldnt be good for me.
Can you reveal the usernames of the glbse-shareholders? Are they reputated forummembers? Maybe they should say some words too when they know more.

As part of the "Nefario gets hit by a bus" plan, 4 of 5 shareholders selected by Nefario could maybe get Nefario's passwords and wallet if Nefario is incompetent enough to have not prevented this attack already. I already tried this route, though, and only 2-3 applicable shareholders are willing to do it.

I don't know how else you'd get the database.

I don't want to publish the shareholder list. Many people who opposed Nefario would like to remain anonymous, and even the people who supported him are decent enough people who I don't want to "out". Some of the shareholders did comment in this thread without saying that they're shareholders.

aura.flux

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Why does it seem like nefario is closing GLBSE just to open another "legal exchange"?

repentance

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Quote from: theymos on October 06, 2012, 10:12:36 PM

Even if he is under legal pressure, he took the CEO job while knowing the legal risks. The first version of the GLBSE client was called "blackMarket". I wouldn't blame him for choosing freedom over shareholder interests, but I can blame him for getting himself into this situation.

This is just as true of those who hold equity in GLBSE - you all took the risks you took knowingly.

Nefario referred to threads in which "disaster plans" were posted. Do you know which threads he was talking about? Do you know why the possibility of sudden shut-down for legal reasons wasn't one of the things for which GLBSE had contingency plans given that it was a known risk?

theymos

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Quote from: BadBear on October 06, 2012, 12:49:38 PM

However, if Nefario is being compelled to do these things under threat of force (govt), should he still be given the scammer tag? Normally the burden of proof would be on him to prove he's under duress, but what if he's not allowed to, again under threat of force? That was one of my first concerns with the situation with Nefario/Goat, and it still is now.

Laws and regulations are a pain, and make things a lot more complicated than they need to be.

First of all, while he could be under legal pressure, I don't think that's the most likely possibility. He was spending money on hiring programmers as recently as two weeks ago. IMO it's most likely that he was just scared by his lawyer.

[05/10/2012 17:24:11] meeting lawyer on wed. for the details

[05/10/2012 18:05:04] xxx: we COULD go against what my lawyer says
[05/10/2012 18:05:07] the result would be
[05/10/2012 18:05:11] GLBSE gets shut down
[05/10/2012 18:05:16] and I get imprisoned

It sounds to me like his TYGRR action was a response to his lawyer's concerns, not a legal order.

[05/10/2012 17:10:36] goat had to be taken off GLBSE ASAP, codes was the quickest thing I could come up with

[05/10/2012 17:51:38] xxx: I didn't get to talk to you about what the lawyer recommended on Goat

Even if he is under legal pressure, he took the CEO job while knowing the legal risks. The first version of the GLBSE client was called "blackMarket". I wouldn't blame him for choosing freedom over shareholder interests, but I can blame him for getting himself into this situation.

Also, assuming he's being manipulated by the government now, Nefario can't be trusted until we know the real story and we're sure he's not still being manipulated by the government.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: theymos on October 06, 2012, 09:52:35 PM

[05/10/2012 17:49:27] i truly think that if we reveal the plans to make it legit, this will turn around support in the community (at least the bright side of it) and new investments would flow if needed

*Irony on* Absolutely shareholder 2. So please give me the data and the remaining btc so i can prepare to invest into the new legal exchange... *Irony off*

Maybe shareholder 2 only fears that nefario realizes that no one will invest into his new exchange and keeps what he has now. So yes... lets "help the wind down of glbse in a clean way".

theymos

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Quote from: elux on October 06, 2012, 12:02:26 PM

This raises the question: What is the bus factor of Bitcointalk?

4-5. The database backups can be decrypted by me, justmoon, Gavin, Sirius, and Satoshi. The encrypted backups are distributed among many people.

theymos

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Quote from: k3t3r on October 06, 2012, 11:34:18 AM

what was nefario's reasoning for closing GLBSE?

[05/10/2012 16:25:51] what MY problem actually is
[05/10/2012 16:25:54] 1)
[05/10/2012 16:26:00] AML
[05/10/2012 16:26:01] 2)
[05/10/2012 16:26:03] tax
[05/10/2012 16:26:05] 3)
[05/10/2012 16:26:07] regulations
[05/10/2012 16:26:09] in that order

[05/10/2012 16:32:52] I don't need your approval for this, I don't have much choice

Quote from: k3t3r on October 06, 2012, 11:34:18 AM

He managed to convince some of you to support him, so he must have had a good argument, what was it?

Nefario promised to start a 100% legal stock exchange after GLBSE is closed and transfer the BitcoinGlobal shares over. Clearly, this will be super successful. Roll Eyes

[05/10/2012 17:43:33] lets just trust nefario and gets going.

[05/10/2012 17:49:27] i truly think that if we reveal the plans to make it legit, this will turn around support in the community (at least the bright side of it) and new investments would flow if needed

[05/10/2012 18:53:41] of clourse you can do what you want, but it would be better for you and everyone to help the wind down of glbse in a clean way

Some other shareholders became resigned to GLBSE's fate and were at least somewhat convinced by Nefario's dreams of BitcoinGlobal's future.

repentance

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Quote from: Aahz on October 06, 2012, 09:31:09 PM

If he needs "full legal ID" then why isn't that stated on the site? It seems whoever is posting to GLBSE.com and whoever you're getting your info from are on different pages.

In fact the site doesn't say that people will need to provide their username, email and BTC address in order to receive their BTC back - it says that's what's required to continue their relationship with their asset issuer. Someone really needs to update the site so that there is no ambiguity about what's required of users. Nefario knew this was going to happen at least a few days ago so he should have had everything ready to go immediately after the shareholders' meeting.

Aahz

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Quote from: matthewh3 on October 06, 2012, 05:15:07 PM

Quote from: Aahz on October 06, 2012, 05:01:16 PM

Quote from: matthewh3 on October 06, 2012, 04:56:07 PM

All users coins on the GLBSE is safe and untouched. Nafario wants to return them as soon as possible as they are a legal liability to him. He also said he will soon have a way for asset issuers to pay dividends but not trade shares.

What, exactly, is stopping him from simply sending them all back to the accounts from whence they came?

I think he will need full legal ID to pay back coins and shares. Otherwise he risks being charged with possible money laundering and/or funding terrorism. Tho he won't disclose that information unless requested by the government/police.

If he needs "full legal ID" then why isn't that stated on the site? It seems whoever is posting to GLBSE.com and whoever you're getting your info from are on different pages.

repentance

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Quote from: tvbcof on October 06, 2012, 08:18:24 PM

AML-grade data for as many participants in the economy as possible is probably a pretty high-value item. I suspect it could act as a 'get out of jail' card in the case of the OP, and likely that it acts as a 'stay in business' card for other entities (e.g., Mt. Gox.) As others have pointed out, having the data does not mean that it is being given up to the authorities in quantity, but there is simply no way to know. It is a certainty, however, that it is being stored somewhere and Bitcoin related enterprises as a group have an abysmal security record.

Not to mention that most places require AML/CTF/KYC information to be kept for between 5 and 7 years, so even if the entity which collected it goes out of business during that time (highly likely in the case of most Bitcoin ventures) they must still retain that information - how securely they'll store it if they've gone out of business is an interesting question.

jasinlee

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Its as easy as 0, 1, 1, 2, 3

In the case of MPEX yes I agree. But with a kernal of truth, just the wrong person to be saying it. But in this thread, I cannot see any way in which he can profit from spreading the ~~FUD~~ Truth as he sees it.

matthewh3

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Quote from: jasinlee on October 06, 2012, 08:21:33 PM

Quote from: matthewh3 on October 06, 2012, 08:15:06 PM

Quote from: jasinlee on October 06, 2012, 07:23:59 PM

And that FUD is having no impact on the market right now too. /sarcasm

It surprises me that Nefario has any supporters in these threads at this point, even ignoring accusations made by theymos it is obvious that he no longer has the interests of his customers/investors/friends at heart. And that would only lead me to believe he has purchased his support or has leverage on them (probably monetary). Just sayin.

Yet more FUD Roll Eyes

Thanks for reinforcing the point.

Yeah this whole thread and the other three or four are just FUD. Have you ever thought it may help some people in spreading FUD about the ~~GLBSE~~ (edit: Nafario) and the rest are just tolling like usual.

jasinlee

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Its as easy as 0, 1, 1, 2, 3

Quote from: matthewh3 on October 06, 2012, 08:15:06 PM

Quote from: jasinlee on October 06, 2012, 07:23:59 PM

And that FUD is having no impact on the market right now too. /sarcasm

It surprises me that Nefario has any supporters in these threads at this point, even ignoring accusations made by theymos it is obvious that he no longer has the interests of his customers/investors/friends at heart. And that would only lead me to believe he has purchased his support or has leverage on them (probably monetary). Just sayin.

Yet more FUD Roll Eyes

Thanks for reinforcing the point.

tvbcof

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Quote from: theymos on October 05, 2012, 08:00:57 PM

...

Since Nefario refuses to give complete details about his legal concerns and he has been acting strangely, I feel that it is somewhat possible that Nefario is working under some sort of plea bargain and is gathering IDs for future prosecution.

...

Though I highly doubt that it has been the intent, I sense the Bitcoin has evolved into a highly efficient (relatively speaking) honeypot for 'marking up' individuals with interesting things going on...both in the past and probably more importantly, in the future.

AML-grade data for as many participants in the economy as possible is probably a pretty high-value item. I suspect it could act as a 'get out of jail' card in the case of the OP, and likely that it acts as a 'stay in business' card for other entities (e.g., Mt. Gox.) As others have pointed out, having the data does not mean that it is being given up to the authorities in quantity, but there is simply no way to know. It is a certainty, however, that it is being stored somewhere and Bitcoin related enterprises as a group have an abysmal security record.

matthewh3

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Quote from: jasinlee on October 06, 2012, 07:23:59 PM

And that FUD is having no impact on the market right now too. /sarcasm

It surprises me that Nefario has any supporters in these threads at this point, even ignoring accusations made by theymos it is obvious that he no longer has the interests of his customers/investors/friends at heart. And that would only lead me to believe he has purchased his support or has leverage on them (probably monetary). Just sayin.

Yet more FUD Roll Eyes

SebastianJu

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Quote from: Transisto on October 06, 2012, 06:55:17 PM

Quote from: GLBSE

... You will be able to get back your bitcoin, and if you want to reveal your username, email, and a bitcoin address to accept payments with, you can continue your relationship with the issuer of any assets you hold....

What is there to understand ? What has providing a bitcoin address anything to do with owning an asset ?
How are usernames and email proof of ownership while 2FA was enabled ?

It took him this long to announce something this inconsistent ?

Inconsistent? What do you mean? Email and a bitcoin address of your choice is the minimum requirement to get your btc and your assets back. The username makes it only a little more sure that you really are the right person. And he can name you.
So with the email you can proof that you are the legit owner of an account because you can click a verifylink or something.

I dont see whats wrong here? I mean there isnt even written that you need a copy of id. So it looks like he will give out the btc and the asset details after you proved youre the owner of the email you are registered at glbse.

Whats wrong with that?

Bogart

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Theymos, can you tell us whether you control the ~675 BTC currently in GBLSE address 1FX22c76vybHJSJdCCjKHDHhcMDhDX87nw, or if Nefario does (or none of the above)?

I am seeing conflicting information.

jasinlee

hero member

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Its as easy as 0, 1, 1, 2, 3

And that FUD is having no impact on the market right now too. /sarcasm

It surprises me that Nefario has any supporters in these threads at this point, even ignoring accusations made by theymos it is obvious that he no longer has the interests of his customers/investors/friends at heart. And that would only lead me to believe he has purchased his support or has leverage on them (probably monetary). Just sayin.

k3t3r

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Quote from: Aahz on October 06, 2012, 07:01:50 PM

My guess would be because there's no actual evidence of any kind that this is the reason behind the closure. Nef hasn't posted here in over a week, and the post on the site gives no reason behind the move whatsoever. The whole "the govt made him do it" is essentially conjecture at this point, and given all the shenanigans surrounding GLBSE (on the part of various "owners thereof") in the last month and the other high level forfeitures of late, people aren't exactly in a mood to sympathize with someone who acted in a way that harmed them (or their friends amongst "bitcoin's own") without explanation, presence, or remedy to those who have been harmed.

Exaclty and the people who really know and can shed some light on what is happening are not saying, saying very little or making vague and misleading comments that are simply feeding the FUD.

Severian

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Quote from: Aahz on October 06, 2012, 07:01:50 PM

The whole "the govt made him do it" is essentially conjecture at this point...

The story does look kind of like a fig leaf, eh?

Topic: Nefario - page 76. (Read 198674 times)