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Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 236. (Read 661498 times)

legendary
Activity: 866
Merit: 1002
Yes, isn't this the NXT whitepaper?

It's community effort (there's 250k NXT bounty for it), and at some points it's full of low-level details,
at others it misses things like differences in forging that were introduced... (and analysis of that)

Let me refrain from direct answer, here are some excerpts, I've bold some of them (mind the dates):

I am technical and articulate and have been slowly sifting through source code to understand things better, BUT I don't feel like I could field questions from cryptographers or software engineers without imploding.  I can talk about Nxt, and some of the challenges it faces, but the CfB-BCNext filter is a little too opaque to be useful for understanding the deep fundamentals (after only two months of this stuff, the exhaustion is overwhelming: "the source code is the whitepaper!", "community must decide", "Enigma!", "Tease!", "u are incorrect check thread for answers plz", "wait for third part of plan", "many riddles in the source if you look", etc.)

I'd say some nice things about Nxt, and then one guy would raise his hand and ask "can you explain the rationale behind basing a cryptocurrency on a mix of Curve25519, EC-KCDSA, and SHA-256 when no papers exist that assess the semantic security of that particular Diffie-Hellman key exchange algorithm, and it is has only traditionally been favoured for its calculation speeds?", and I would suddenly smell toast and collapse into an apoplectic heap, muttering "just ask Beyonce it all comes from Beyonce" and weeping.  THEN watch the price.

It's a real Catch-22.  Getting a chance to take part in a panel that would be included in the (always awesome and SO VALUABLE) Let's Talk Bitcoin podcast is *exquisite*, but the person to talk about the advent and future of metacoins is currently living in Belarus and busy until April.

MY VOTE would be for someone like wesley, ferment, opticalcarrier, rickyjames or ricot.

I think noone will be able to tell about Nxt. Only BCNext would but he can't due to obvious reason.

Nxt source code indeed is full of riddles and traps. For example, we can't run testnet with another genesis block coz we would definitely trigger some traps.

BCNext modified EC-KCDSA to inject a flaw (we r safe, don't worry) and to increase requirements to hardware Nxt wallets.

Also, it's impossible to write a whitepaper now, coz we haven't seen 2nd and 3rd parts of the plan yet.

If devs are to laizy to write the math and shemes down well what can we do.

in the white paper, we need the math, pictures and drawings about algo now.

so the only persons that can deliver here are the DEVs, we asked over and over but no reaction.

with all respect, maybe BCNext should do this!

Pin

Only BCNext can do that, the other devs don't have enough info about future TF properties.

Can you politly ask him to write something down? we NEED this desperatly !

Asked ages ago, his position sounds like that (my wording):

Satoshi's whitepaper has never been critically reviewed. This led to the situation when serious problems like Centralization, Selfish Mining, etc. were revealed too late. More problems will arise in the future (Huge Fees, Ecological Catastrophe). By refusing to write the whitepaper BCNext forces us to analyze Nxt concept as deep as possible.

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
lol  Cheesy uncanny. Jaguar subconsciously reminded me of a character in tekken.
hero member
Activity: 1110
Merit: 534
Its funny how my mind makes pictures of people just out of forum names  Grin

Utopian Future : my minds creates a  picture of a thirty something white guy with a ponytail and french beard  Huh
Pat : a lanky German with spectacle and sandy hair
Jaguar : I automatically imagine a bare chested man with a leopard head  Grin

Did I get it right lol

I know him  I have found him!
He is the KING Smiley

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
well the investors and developers own most of ripple so its centralized in that sense, that is what I meant.
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
I see Ripple more as a bank than altcoin, which is not a bad thing actually, centralization also establishes accountability. Unlike most people in this forum I like Ripple  Cheesy . NEM is also a bit centralized, UP as promoter and then the Dev team and then the participants and this is good for coordination complete decentralization would be anarchy.

Ripple isn't centralized. Anyone can run a server. Afaik the whole thing is open source as well.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
I see Ripple more as a bank than altcoin, which is not a bad thing actually, centralization also establishes accountability. Unlike most people in this forum I like Ripple  Cheesy . NEM is also a bit centralized, UP as promoter and then the Dev team and then the participants and this is good for coordination complete decentralization would be anarchy.
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
Its funny how my mind makes pictures of people just out of forum names  Grin

Utopian Future : my minds creates a  picture of a thirty something white guy with a ponytail and french beard  Huh
Pat : a lanky German with spectacle and sandy hair
Jaguar : I automatically imagine a bare chested man with a leopard head  Grin

Did I get it right lol

None of that is true  Cool ...not even the part that I'm german Smiley Everyone just asumed that because I speak the language. Well maybe lanky isn't completely wrong.
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001

Is Etherium really as revolutionary as this guy makes it out to be ? Can some of the more knowledgeable posters please enlighten me on how they are so much better than both NXT & NEM potentially ( since Etherium is yet to be released)


I think if Ethereum is really what it promises, it is that big of a deal.  

The way I see it is like this.  In the short term, it doesn't matter.  In the short term from a functionality perspective, they will all have the same functions.  The lead developer of Ethereum mentioned this in an interview recently.  Both will have multi-sig functions and asset exchanges and other key aspects.  Things that bitcoin simply can't do because its code is not designed for it.  So in this aspect, NXT has somewhat of a 1st mover bump.  

But.... Ethereum is designed basically to do anything and everything in the future, most of which hasn't been designed yet, or for that matter even thought of yet.  So, it is very possible that in 5 years, NXT will find itself in the "Bitcoin" situation of not being able to meet the needs of a new market.  A platform that was revolutionary and great at the time, but eventually limited for what it needs to do.  And then again.... maybe it won't.  Maybe it will prove very versatile and adaptable.  But I see a very long "blue-ray vs HD DVD" battle coming up between "Ethereum vs Ripple vs NXT" with honorable mention of NEM.  (and then trailing after that counterparty and bitshares)

Ethereum and NEM are late to the game, but both have advantages that if leveraged can really be a big factor.  Ripple and NXT are here now, both with advantages and disadvantages that makes them very polarized and hated/loved in the community.  It all depends on how bad their decisions are and how much NEM can monopolize their failings.  On top of that, NXT has already quasi-set a framework for NEM to follow.   This is not a bitcoin vs litecoin type of battle.  It is going to be much closer than that.  

One things for sure, NEM has the chance to be the people's 2.0 platform, but it will not be easy and we will really need to work as a community to make it happen.  

PS.  You asked for "knowledgeable" and well...... that probably isn't me, I am a newbie, but I thought I would give it a go. hahaha

Ethereum : impractical idea - no practical use cases
Ripple: outdated model - limited appeal
Mastercoin+ Counterparty: unsuitable foundation - limited functionality
Invictus Bitshare : fragmented products, lack a correct vision
Exo: dubious fundamental
Bitcoin: still great but the old King with new problems popping up everyday
NXT: XXXXXX
NEM: the 2015 King - best developers- best innovation - best vision - best community

Disclaimer: comments are with guaranteed objectivity as long as you understand there is no objectivity in forum writing.

I don't see how Ripple is outdated or has limited apeal.
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
Impressive NEM development guys great job and community passion, it will be great honor can be  member of this community.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 504
Its funny how my mind makes pictures of people just out of forum names  Grin

Utopian Future : my minds creates a  picture of a thirty something white guy with a ponytail and french beard  Huh
Pat : a lanky German with spectacle and sandy hair
Jaguar : I automatically imagine a bare chested man with a leopard head  Grin

Did I get it right lol

I do the same thing! I think of Utopianfuture as some landscape in a 1930's scifi future, mixed in with the Wizard of Oz's emerald green fields surrounding the city.
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
Its funny how my mind makes pictures of people just out of forum names  Grin

Utopian Future : my minds creates a  picture of a thirty something white guy with a ponytail and french beard  Huh
Pat : a lanky German with spectacle and sandy hair
Jaguar : I automatically imagine a bare chested man with a leopard head  Grin

Did I get it right lol

french beard. I had to look it up. I dont think he has the time right now for that kind of trimming.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Its funny how my mind makes pictures of people just out of forum names  Grin

Utopian Future : my minds creates a  picture of a thirty something white guy with a ponytail and french beard  Huh
Pat : a lanky German with spectacle and sandy hair
Jaguar : I automatically imagine a bare chested man with a leopard head  Grin

Did I get it right lol
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 504
Ethereum is doing an excellent job of pre marketing and promotion, something we should try and execute as best we can with our limited initial backing.   Just look at that site, the blog entries, the integrated forum, the meet-ups, it's all very well done.  They will definitely be getting some of my BTC (if they allow us yanks to participate) but also hope NEM will be there to stand toe to toe with them as well.  
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250

Disregard the troll but the key point is that I and NEM has no inferior complex toward NXT, Ethererum, Bitshare etc.  

I am with you then.  Let's make NEM great!!!  Seriously, I am ready to go 100%

Yes me too  Cheesy .
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
mining is so 2012-2013

Disregard the troll but the key point is that I and NEM has no inferior complex toward NXT, Ethererum, Bitshare etc.  

I am with you then.  Let's make NEM great!!!  Seriously, I am ready to go 100%
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 501

Is Etherium really as revolutionary as this guy makes it out to be ? Can some of the more knowledgeable posters please enlighten me on how they are so much better than both NXT & NEM potentially ( since Etherium is yet to be released)


I think if Ethereum is really what it promises, it is that big of a deal.  

The way I see it is like this.  In the short term, it doesn't matter.  In the short term from a functionality perspective, they will all have the same functions.  The lead developer of Ethereum mentioned this in an interview recently.  Both will have multi-sig functions and asset exchanges and other key aspects.  Things that bitcoin simply can't do because its code is not designed for it.  So in this aspect, NXT has somewhat of a 1st mover bump.  

But.... Ethereum is designed basically to do anything and everything in the future, most of which hasn't been designed yet, or for that matter even thought of yet.  So, it is very possible that in 5 years, NXT will find itself in the "Bitcoin" situation of not being able to meet the needs of a new market.  A platform that was revolutionary and great at the time, but eventually limited for what it needs to do.  And then again.... maybe it won't.  Maybe it will prove very versatile and adaptable.  But I see a very long "blue-ray vs HD DVD" battle coming up between "Ethereum vs Ripple vs NXT" with honorable mention of NEM.  (and then trailing after that counterparty and bitshares)

Ethereum and NEM are late to the game, but both have advantages that if leveraged can really be a big factor.  Ripple and NXT are here now, both with advantages and disadvantages that makes them very polarized and hated/loved in the community.  It all depends on how bad their decisions are and how much NEM can monopolize their failings.  On top of that, NXT has already quasi-set a framework for NEM to follow.   This is not a bitcoin vs litecoin type of battle.  It is going to be much closer than that.  

One things for sure, NEM has the chance to be the people's 2.0 platform, but it will not be easy and we will really need to work as a community to make it happen.  

PS.  You asked for "knowledgeable" and well...... that probably isn't me, I am a newbie, but I thought I would give it a go. hahaha

Ethereum : impractical idea - no practical use cases
Ripple: outdated model - limited appeal
Mastercoin+ Counterparty: unsuitable foundation - limited functionality
Invictus Bitshare : fragmented products, lack a correct vision
Exo: dubious fundamental
Bitcoin: still great but the old King with new problems popping up everyday
NXT: XXXXXX
NEM: the 2015 King - best developers- best innovation - best vision - best community

Disclaimer: comments are with guaranteed objectivity as long as you understand there is no objectivity in forum writing.

It is supposed to be an exaggerated joke that can hold a certain percentage of truth.

Smiley

Disregard the troll but the key point is that I and NEM has no inferior complex toward NXT, Ethererum, Bitshare etc.  


That is a great list to be on to begin with.

Ethereum generated a lot of hype without actually having a product ready for the market. Most part has been controversy generated by the community itself, but it in turn brings awareness and free publicity. NEM is doing it these days. I see the name come up more and more. A BIG reason was because they went to conferences and kinda showed their faces at important events. I hope we can get to see Jaguar, you and others some day too!
sr. member
Activity: 602
Merit: 268
Internet of Value
I was advised by my cousin that told me how to get signed up for this NEM currency that I should go online and I should go on this board and that I should post in this thread if I wanted to keep my place in line for this IPO or else someone would steal it from me.  Why would this happen?

This is not an IPO. You are expected to contribute so you might not be suitable if you are new to the crypto scene.


I do mean every stakeholders are expected to contribute in building NEM. It does not necessarily mean you need to contribute something right now since you could help NEM in the future by running nodes, spreading the words etc. The key word is that stakeholders are expected to contribute at some point. If you think of it as an IPO and you are an investor, then NEM is not for you at this phase.  
In short, stakeholders = contributors. Investors = someone putting money in and expect others to do the works, coding, promoting etc. This should be made clear.

I'm still a bit confused by this statement! What should i do exactly to Contribute in NEM?

Very good question. What's the consequence for "not contributing?" And who determines what a contribution is and how it is scored?

*EDIT*

Cleared a bit in above post.

It doesn't make sense to me.  For example, I got my stake for advertising for nem on another forum.  Others had to pay for theirs.  Are you now saying the folks that had to pay also have to work for it?
i wouldnt see that as fair..

some people will help. others wont.. just have to live with that. i cant really do anything other then donate when i get my coins.. if you disallow someone on the basis that they cannot contribute code, marketing ect ect you could be turning away some of your biggest doners.. and also it would look very very bad...

no envy movement.

would the less skilled not envy the skilled in this situation...?

all you can do is prevent sock puppets! you should focus on that and not what the person has to bring to the table. you have thousands. if nem is good on launch i think you will see a huge amount of devs migrate to nem instead.....

I think you should read the other following clarifying posts before reply. Participation is stressed as a principle as opposed to investment. There is no paying but only sending in fee/ donation. There is no paying because it was not an IPO.

Aside from the ideological reason of what NEM is and should be, there is a legal reason as well. I don't want NEM to be considered as a security which NEM would pretty much is if there is an IPO and buying shares/ stakes during the fundraising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_and_Exchange_Commission_v._W._J._Howey_Co. (the link should include the dot at the end of the sentence)
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
NEM Enthusiast
+ POI

Where could I read more about it? I contacted utopianfuture regarding some issues related to POI but got no answer. He is not a tech guy, so I should contact a developer. Who is writing the core?

btw, has NXT whitepaper benn finally published?

Yes, isn't this the NXT whitepaper?
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
NEM Enthusiast
Ethereum : impractical idea - no practical use cases
Ripple: outdated model - limited appeal
Mastercoin+ Counterparty: unsuitable foundation - limited functionality
Invictus Bitshare : fragmented products, lack a correct vision
Exo: dubious fundamental
Bitcoin: still great but the old King with new problem popping up everyday
NXT: XXXXXX
NEM: the 2015 King - best developers- best innovation - best vision - best community

Disclaimer: comments are with guaranteed objectivity.

ROFLMAO

you fucking scum parasite.  what a fucking joke.

You sound like a lovely person...
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
I was advised by my cousin that told me how to get signed up for this NEM currency that I should go online and I should go on this board and that I should post in this thread if I wanted to keep my place in line for this IPO or else someone would steal it from me.  Why would this happen?

This is not an IPO. You are expected to contribute so you might not be suitable if you are new to the crypto scene.


I do mean every stakeholders are expected to contribute in building NEM. It does not necessarily mean you need to contribute something right now since you could help NEM in the future by running nodes, spreading the words etc. The key word is that stakeholders are expected to contribute at some point. If you think of it as an IPO and you are an investor, then NEM is not for you at this phase.  
In short, stakeholders = contributors. Investors = someone putting money in and expect others to do the works, coding, promoting etc. This should be made clear.

I'm still a bit confused by this statement! What should i do exactly to Contribute in NEM?

Very good question. What's the consequence for "not contributing?" And who determines what a contribution is and how it is scored?

*EDIT*

Cleared a bit in above post.

It doesn't make sense to me.  For example, I got my stake for advertising for nem on another forum.  Others had to pay for theirs.  Are you now saying the folks that had to pay also have to work for it?
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