[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 429.

gramufibus

jr. member

Activity: 54

Merit: 2

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on February 09, 2014, 07:32:51 PM

The goal is not for NEM to be a NXT copy and paste coin. IMO, there's no value in that. With NEM, we want to take some of the best ideas of NXT and Bitcoin and create something new and, hopefully, better.

Wow that is amazing and exiting news to me. I'm not knocking nxt but the chance to rewrite the rules offers so much.
I have a question which might be a dumb one so I apologise in advance if so. I like the way nxt is different than mined coins, but it is a common criticism, though I think "pre-mine" is an incorrect term.
Is there any way... that without disrupting nem's initial distribution, that it could be made more appealing to the coin miners? Perhaps adopt a model that is based on nodes on the network, versus amount of nem held?
I'm thinking of this purely in terms of what could make nem a more sucessfull currency. And I'll admit I know little of what I'm talking about.

makoto1337

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1000

I am not Dorian Nakamoto.

Nakamoto is a bit long, I will admit, but it is only 1 syllable more than satoshi.
Naka could work as well. This would just be 中. This is also the short country name of China (中国). 中 could be the currency symbol. It is already in unicode...

新 means "new" and is pronounced the same in Chinese and Japanese (xin/shin). That character is also in unicode!!

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: makoto1337 on February 09, 2014, 08:58:34 PM

Quote from: Brainofmasses on February 09, 2014, 08:24:35 PM

Hey Nem´s!

Watching the development of NEM from the far first day and must say that Im really impressed!

Keep up the good work! Alltough there are allways stones in your way, but hey problems are here to get solved, otherwise you wouldn´t be in that forum and developing an alternative. The distribution is so far the best I´ve seen for my own, also if there are a lot of suckpuppets.

I hope the team reaches the goal to makes our world a "bit" better.(Maybe also a good model for a slogan)
Let us hope that money isn´t a thing of need, in future centuries, and dividing us like we it know today. To make real progress possible, like bringing us into the real far space, in a technically and ethically way, which is all two far away, for now and through our behaving as a civilization.

I think its quiet interesting that SHA-3 is used, like in Copperlark. Means this that the network will be secured only through GPU/CPU or will you also include in some way Asics? And if not, how Asic resistant is SHA3?

And I read somewhere that a name for the NEM satoshis is searched, why not "futures", alltough this gets a chance to getting mistaken with bourse futures, OP brought thing into rolling.

NEM isn't secured by proof-of-work, so I don't think ASICs are an issue.

For the name of the basic unit of NEM, I propose the "nakamoto." Satoshi Nakamoto created this whole world, and it would be good to recognize that. Also, Nakamoto can be written as 中元 in Japanese (among other ways of writing it). This basically means 中国元, or "Chinese currency." So I think it is a name that could appeal to a larger audience, while still keeping the cyber-/cypher-punk roots.

Does it make sense to call it na or naka ? Nakamoto is a bit long for everyday use. How much is this ? 5 naka.

makoto1337

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1000

I am not Dorian Nakamoto.

Quote from: Brainofmasses on February 09, 2014, 08:24:35 PM

Hey Nem´s!

Watching the development of NEM from the far first day and must say that Im really impressed!

Keep up the good work! Alltough there are allways stones in your way, but hey problems are here to get solved, otherwise you wouldn´t be in that forum and developing an alternative. The distribution is so far the best I´ve seen for my own, also if there are a lot of suckpuppets.

I hope the team reaches the goal to makes our world a "bit" better.(Maybe also a good model for a slogan)
Let us hope that money isn´t a thing of need, in future centuries, and dividing us like we it know today. To make real progress possible, like bringing us into the real far space, in a technically and ethically way, which is all two far away, for now and through our behaving as a civilization.

I think its quiet interesting that SHA-3 is used, like in Copperlark. Means this that the network will be secured only through GPU/CPU or will you also include in some way Asics? And if not, how Asic resistant is SHA3?

And I read somewhere that a name for the NEM satoshis is searched, why not "futures", alltough this gets a chance to getting mistaken with bourse futures, OP brought thing into rolling.

NEM isn't secured by proof-of-work, so I don't think ASICs are an issue.

For the name of the basic unit of NEM, I propose the "nakamoto." Satoshi Nakamoto created this whole world, and it would be good to recognize that. Also, Nakamoto can be written as 中元 in Japanese (among other ways of writing it). This basically means 中国元, or "Chinese currency." So I think it is a name that could appeal to a larger audience, while still keeping the cyber-/cypher-punk roots.

To be clear, I think 1 NEM should be called 1 NEM. 1 micro-NEM should be called 1 nakamoto.

makoto1337

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1000

I am not Dorian Nakamoto.

Quote from: patmast3r on February 09, 2014, 02:35:12 PM

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on February 09, 2014, 02:15:05 PM

Your patience is rewarded. Please find a link to the official NEM development document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I. A few sections are still in flux (they are marked with TODOs), but are being worked on at the moment.

I will be monitoring this thread and comments in the document for feedback.

Thanks a lot for the update !

Would POI not further encourage hoarding ?
If a node is more important if it has had more NEMs for a longer amount of time then everyone will try to keep their NEMs at one place right ?
Also - Will Server nodes be more important then client notes simply by their nature ? I think they should be.
I'm may be missundestanding something about POI so please enlighten me

Did I miss it or is there no Alias-System in there ?
Is transparent forging going to be there ?

Keep up the good work !

POI would encourage people to spend NEM because just hoarding will not link your account to others. POI considers not only the amount of NEM (as in POS), but also considers the structure of the transaction graph. Thus nodes that are structurally important to the health of the network get a higher reward.

Thus POI is kind of in-between POS and PON. If you have only POS, no one will spend. If you have only PON or only consider links between nodes, then people could game the system. By requiring that people have NEM (have a stake in the system) and use NEM (send NEM to other accounts and receive NEM from other accounts), POI promotes using the currency. Now, it might sound like someone could just send a bunch of NEM around in a loop and make their account big, but the coin-days limit prevents that, as well as the fact that only sending NEM in a loop will not make your account(s) more important, because importance will be conserved within a loop. You'll need to actually transact with others in order to make your account important to the NEM economy.

Brainofmasses

member

Activity: 80

Merit: 10

NEMflash.io

Hey Nem´s!

Watching the development of NEM from the far first day and must say that Im really impressed!

Keep up the good work! Alltough there are allways stones in your way, but hey problems are here to get solved, otherwise you wouldn´t be in that forum and developing an alternative. The distribution is so far the best I´ve seen for my own, also if there are a lot of suckpuppets.

I hope the team reaches the goal to makes our world a "bit" better.(Maybe also a good model for a slogan)
Let us hope that money isn´t a thing of need, in future centuries, and dividing us like we it know today. To make real progress possible, like bringing us into the real far space, in a technically and ethically way, which is all two far away, for now and through our behaving as a civilization.

I think its quiet interesting that SHA-3 is used, like in Copperlark. Means this that the network will be secured only through GPU/CPU or will you also include in some way Asics? And if not, how Asic resistant is SHA3?

And I read somewhere that a name for the NEM satoshis is searched, why not "futures", alltough this gets a chance to getting mistaken with bourse futures, OP brought thing into rolling.

makoto1337

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1000

I am not Dorian Nakamoto.

Quote from: ashapasa on February 09, 2014, 07:39:34 AM

Nice post yurkomik. I like your ideas very much, I too think we need a market where we can trade/buy real goods with NEM. Without a proper market, NEM is just another dead coin in the long-run( 1 yrs?)

As of this moment, two events are likely to happen with the release of NEM
Scenario 1: NEM gets released, people start to rush to dump their coins to make a quick buck leading to a dead cypto.
Scenario 2: Most people hoard their coins for forging, unintentionally artificially inflating price ( NXT?) but susceptible to big price volatility with the smallest trade activity,rendering the currency useless.

Money was created to facilitate trade between goods and services, with cryptos we are creating money without goods and services. 99% of all alt currencies will be dead in a year all due to lack of a market, lets make NEM the exception to the rule. We really do need participants for this experimental currency to succeed not silent stake holders.

Let me be one of the first to volunteer , My name is Pasang I own a small hotel in Bhutan. I could offer my rooms in NEM but since most of u guys are probably not in my locality it would be pointless, instead I would be willing to post 10 items for sale every month for sale priced in NEM on its release for the next four months to get the ball rolling.

I hope more of you will join me in this endeavor, We are all potential NEM coin millionaires and now it is up to us to make this million actually worth a million or just worthless digital numbers.

We have been bouncing around ideas to create a market structure for real goods. One of the problems is that of trust. There has to be a mechanism for feedback for both the buyer and seller, that is built into the system. I hope to include something like this for NEM in the future.

TauMuon

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

NEM Enthusiast

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on February 09, 2014, 07:32:51 PM

Our initial plan was to base NEM on the NXT code, which is why there are two versions of the NXT code in the repository. However, this project garnered a really large amount of interest and we have more dev resources than I expected. At this time, it is the consensus of the dev team to base NEM on some of the NXT ideas but write the code from scratch. While this will take a little more time and effort now, I think it will set up NEM much better in the long run.

The goal is not for NEM to be a NXT copy and paste coin. IMO, there's no value in that. With NEM, we want to take some of the best ideas of NXT and Bitcoin and create something new and, hopefully, better.

My only criticisms of writing the code from scratch are:
(a) Won't be as well tested and stable as a NXT clone.
(b) May cause people to lose interest and NEM to lose momentum if it takes too long to complete.

But other than that, it's a great idea!

Jaguar0625

sr. member

Activity: 299

Merit: 250

Quote from: freigeist on February 09, 2014, 02:58:18 PM

What version of NXT code you plan to use to start the development?
I ask this because currently in the NEM codebase there are 2 older versions of NXT
code which contained some flaws.
The flaws have been removed by JeanLuc and the NXT code was refactored since version 0.6.x and 0.7.x.
The latest version of NXT is 0.7.2.

It seem they found another issue with the current version as well
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5039691

Our initial plan was to base NEM on the NXT code, which is why there are two versions of the NXT code in the repository. However, this project garnered a really large amount of interest and we have more dev resources than I expected. At this time, it is the consensus of the dev team to base NEM on some of the NXT ideas but write the code from scratch. While this will take a little more time and effort now, I think it will set up NEM much better in the long run.

The goal is not for NEM to be a NXT copy and paste coin. IMO, there's no value in that. With NEM, we want to take some of the best ideas of NXT and Bitcoin and create something new and, hopefully, better.

Quote from: freigeist on February 09, 2014, 02:58:18 PM

2) will NEM have similar JSON web api like NXT has, I mean will have the similar concept
of accessing the api over http https protocols?

Yes. The document specifies a rough API, with the caveat that the API will definitely be iterated on during the development process. The one big difference in the NEM API versus the NXT API is that NEM will infer intent from the URL whereas NXT infers intent from the type field in the input object.

Jaguar0625

sr. member

Activity: 299

Merit: 250

Quote from: patmast3r on February 09, 2014, 02:35:12 PM

Would POI not further encourage hoarding ?

If a node is more important if it has had more NEMs for a longer amount of time then everyone will try to keep their NEMs at one place right ?

The key part of the POI summary is this: "Forging power is a factor of a node’s weight and the NEM transfers that link it to other nodes". So, a node that actively engages in transactions will be more important that one that doesn't.

Quote from: patmast3r on February 09, 2014, 02:35:12 PM

Also - Will Server nodes be more important then client notes simply by their nature ? I think they should be.
I'm may be missundestanding something about POI so please enlighten me

That is a good suggestion that would increase the incentives for running server nodes. We will take that under consideration.

Quote from: patmast3r on February 09, 2014, 02:35:12 PM

Did I miss it or is there no Alias-System in there ?

We're not targeting that in V1. In place of it, we're allowing accounts to be given friendly names that might give newbies more confidence that they are sending money to the right place.

Quote from: patmast3r on February 09, 2014, 02:35:12 PM

Is transparent forging going to be there ?

We haven't decided yet because this will depend on the forging algorithm that we choose.

Jaguar0625

sr. member

Activity: 299

Merit: 250

Quote from: WildCats on February 09, 2014, 02:35:01 PM

Why not have a larger number of coins? Transaction fee could start at 100 NEM and go down over time to 1 NEM. This avoids using decimals for transaction fee and small purchases.

We can open this up for discussion. Alternatively, we could come up with a name for the smallest unit of NEM and use that (the equivalent of satoshis in Bitcoin).

Quote from: WildCats on February 09, 2014, 02:35:01 PM

BTW: Any idea what BCnext thinks of this project?

As far as I know, BCNext went dark shortly after the NXT release. But, this is an interesting comment from CfB shortly after the NXT release:

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 12, 2013, 03:27:27 AM

Now time for bad news.

BCNext is becoming more and more angry coz of stakeholders who don't help Nxt. They don't run their nodes, they don't support bounties, they don't take part in Nxt promotion. He can't force them to do all these things but he can quit this project and join other cryptocoin, no matter if it's called ClonedNxt, and contribute his ideas and code to a competitor of Nxt...

My personal opinion: This guy doesn't care about money nor how much 1 NXT will be worth, I'm 100% sure he will do what he said. I think that Nxt clone will have the same problems and decision to quit Nxt would be one of the worst decisions, but he has his own opinion.
Edit: If stakeholders don't change situation they should sell their coins before price drops below ZERO.

gvans

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   gvans ver4

light white version and 16x16pix version in coinmarketcap-size

gvans ver3 ____________________________________________________________

xtester

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Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.

Quote from: utopianfuture on February 09, 2014, 03:03:27 PM

Quote from: patmast3r on February 09, 2014, 02:35:12 PM

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on February 09, 2014, 02:15:05 PM

Your patience is rewarded. Please find a link to the official NEM development document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I. A few sections are still in flux (they are marked with TODOs), but are being worked on at the moment.

I will be monitoring this thread and comments in the document for feedback.

Thanks a lot for the update !

Would POI not further encourage hoarding ?
If a node is more important if it has had more NEMs for a longer amount of time then everyone will try to keep their NEMs at one place right ?
Also - Will Server nodes be more important then client notes simply by their nature ? I think they should be.
I'm may be missundestanding something about POI so please enlighten me

Did I miss it or is there no Alias-System in there ?
Is transparent forging going to be there ?

Keep up the good work !

The plan is for level 1 blockchain. Advanced features would be added later to the blockchain when we have a stable level 1 blockchain in place. So no 1000 TPS magic portion for now but there have been some discussions on parallel blockchain, reputation system etc.

Stakeholder list is updated to page 60. There will be an update on fundraising going forward after we are done digesting the development plan.

Really great work guys.

This seems to me now like one of the most promising altcoins and with each passing day this becomes more and more interesting.

Glad to be part of such a impressing project and community!

Keep up the good work.

suky321

sr. member

Activity: 382

Merit: 256

okay, just checked the google doc, there's around 2,500, so not long to go.

suky321

sr. member

Activity: 382

Merit: 256

utopianfuture, just wondering how many users have registered now, then I can sort of get an idea of when the announcement will happen when you reach the 4000? threshold.

thanks.

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: patmast3r on February 09, 2014, 02:35:12 PM

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on February 09, 2014, 02:15:05 PM

Your patience is rewarded. Please find a link to the official NEM development document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I. A few sections are still in flux (they are marked with TODOs), but are being worked on at the moment.

I will be monitoring this thread and comments in the document for feedback.

Thanks a lot for the update !

Would POI not further encourage hoarding ?
If a node is more important if it has had more NEMs for a longer amount of time then everyone will try to keep their NEMs at one place right ?
Also - Will Server nodes be more important then client notes simply by their nature ? I think they should be.
I'm may be missundestanding something about POI so please enlighten me

Did I miss it or is there no Alias-System in there ?
Is transparent forging going to be there ?

Keep up the good work !

The plan is for level 1 blockchain. Advanced features would be added later to the blockchain when we have a stable level 1 blockchain in place. So no 1000 TPS magic portion for now but there have been some discussions on parallel blockchain, reputation system etc.

Stakeholder list is updated to page 60. There will be an update on fundraising going forward after we are done digesting the development plan.

Seedeer

member

Activity: 61

Merit: 10

That's what I'm talking about!

freigeist

hero member

Activity: 1116

Merit: 535

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on February 09, 2014, 02:15:05 PM

Your patience is rewarded. Please find a link to the official NEM development document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I. A few sections are still in flux (they are marked with TODOs), but are being worked on at the moment.

I will be monitoring this thread and comments in the document for feedback.

Thanks you for the detailed info.
I see lots of good features in NEM.
I have read the document and i have few questions.

1st)
What version of NXT code you plan to use to start the development?
I ask this because currently in the NEM codebase there are 2 older versions of NXT
code which contained some flaws.
The flaws have been removed by JeanLuc and the NXT code was refactored since version 0.6.x and 0.7.x.
The latest version of NXT is 0.7.2.

It seem they found another issue with the current version as well
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5039691

2) will NEM have similar JSON web api like NXT has, I mean will have the similar concept
of accessing the api over http https protocols?

Thanks.

patmast3r

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on February 09, 2014, 02:15:05 PM

Your patience is rewarded. Please find a link to the official NEM development document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I. A few sections are still in flux (they are marked with TODOs), but are being worked on at the moment.

I will be monitoring this thread and comments in the document for feedback.

Thanks a lot for the update !

Would POI not further encourage hoarding ?
If a node is more important if it has had more NEMs for a longer amount of time then everyone will try to keep their NEMs at one place right ?
Also - Will Server nodes be more important then client notes simply by their nature ? I think they should be.
I'm may be missundestanding something about POI so please enlighten me

Did I miss it or is there no Alias-System in there ?
Is transparent forging going to be there ?

Keep up the good work !

WildCats

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 0

Why not have a larger number of coins? Transaction fee could start at 100 NEM and go down over time to 1 NEM. This avoids using decimals for transaction fee and small purchases.

BTW: Any idea what BCnext thinks of this project?

Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 429. (Read 661525 times)