Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 432. (Read 661525 times)

Thanks for your comment )
I understand that it's task for years. But if we talk about real new economy model and not about new virtual currency we must solve or show how do we plan to solve the issues.
Issues are:
Premined distribution will be always unfair. This will lead to new clones and many people will just don't like to pay to early investors many times more then early investors payed.
Transactions must be more user friendly for everyday use and motivate to make transactions. Why to buy next cryptocoin? why it's better? why it's price will grow? why nothing better can be cloned, made so I will loose my investment coze users will switch to another cryptocurrency? How can I help system in other way then just buying more NEMs? Why is it going to be not speculative currency? Or I was wrong and this is just an experiment in creating virtual gold and listing it in exchanges for people who like to play in short transactions?

There only two things you can do to make me trust in your good intentions to change economy:
1. Emit only small amount of NEMs now
2. Promise new currency NEM v.2.0 based in some percent in NEM v 1.0 and most in emited for real goods transaction NEMS with stabilization fund and dividend ownership model

Regards, Yurij



 

these are good ideas! the diversification and connection with real economy should be high priority to avoid use NEMs as just an speculative tool. I need to think a little bit more about your solution but it is good to orient the debate in that direction

I think for now we need to focus on getting everything up and running community and tech wise before even thinking about NEM-PayPal or NEM-Ebay.
Don't get me wrong I thank you for puting all the thought into your ideas and they are worth looking at but I think at the current state of the project we should focus on the basics.
Let's not get ahead of ourselfs.

Hello community!
I have some ideas )
1. I see that most people see NEM here as speculative investment tool. They hope to be one of the first, register few accounts, and then to make profit of selling their share to new comers. It's 100% human nature but it has nothing to do with NEM idea.
Speculative currency is not good currency in any way. If it's not a good currency it's speculative game on virtual goods and nothing more.
2. So we need to dial with that.
a) Use envy human nature to build project but
b) stabilize it as secure and not speculative tool in the future.

First of all it have sense to make participation in project "profitable" on later stages too. That's what bitcoin did - you can earn by virtual transactions (mining). We can't pay for POW and it's not good idea to have huge commissions on POS as it will stop people from transactions. How can we do this?
a) emit new coins from main account (1% per month) and send them to all stakeholders.  So for every 100 NEM in next 5 years every month you will receive 1 new NEM. You become richer. Your "profit" is stable. It's better then in bank but still reasonable. It's inflation but it's not so risky as everyone receive new money and it's not forever. On other side it's motivate people to buy more NEM as they will gain more NEMs. Think of that as global nongovernmental corporation which pays dividends to all it's citizens. Another source of dividends will be described later.
b) generate money from any other source. (will be described later.)

3, Now it's good time to think how to connect real money with virtual. Why do people are afraid of using virtual money?

a) it's not convenient for retail. Too long to wait. Not as easy ass paypass. Wallmart will never use it.  It's not secure: No way to restore stolen money. No transaction limits. No heuristic fraud protection. With mindwallet money can be stolen on your eyes and hidden inside network and thief mind. If person said he forgot pass - you will never see your money again. Government have real tools to make any cryptotrade illegal. There no ready to use solutions to make fair trade with verified parties and companies who have will to disclose their identity for legal, tax and insurance reasons. No paypal for new economy as for now. System is not going to pay taxes from transactions so governments will be really unhappy and this make crypto economy reason to change world taxation system. No more taxes on transactions and on money generation by dividends. How to source community needs in future?  As for now I think it's huge political and technical challenge.

b) it's not covered by real economy at all. It price changes so quickly as there no buffer. Some countries protect their currencies by investing in gold, dollars, euro and many other currencies. So if demand is changing they can emit new money or sell other currencies.  
But still this buffer is based on other unreal currencies. Better protection is in price real material goods. We may try to generate algorithm to create BTC/NEM buffer for some % of our economy but BTC is speculative and sometimes can bring more risk then stability. So we need to have buffer in real money.  How to make it? Sell NEMS for dollars? Almost impossible at this stage and who will organize it in decentralized economy.
We need to earn. How? Simplest answer is commission. 1% of exchange price or any real goods trade agreement should go to the cryptoeconomy as new NEM and currency which covers it.

4. We are close to the solution. How to motivate people sell real goods for NEMs? We do not need to force anybody to do so. Imagine  NEM ebay with NEM paypal who share revenue with system, contractors and generate buffer. It may look like this:
- X bought from Y laptop for 300$ in NEM auction
- NEM auction earned 5% or 15$, 10$ net income
- NEM auction buys NEMS for this 10$ in automated exchange
- and send 30% of this NEMs to X and 30% to Y, 30% to all system stakeholders proportionally to amount of their NEM, and 10% to insurance and stabilization fund.

The rule to buy NEMs for $ and share them with parties and stakeholders it's just a fair trade policy. Anybody will see is it right and decide if he want to participate and organize auction or other business with this rules. There must be free market but for the beginning main account may sell NEMS for transactions a bit cheaper then their market value to motivate people.  This way we will have "mining by trade".  We may think even harder and state that only way to get NEMS is to trade with real goods. Still we will need to protect from "virtual real transactions".
 NEM auction may pay taxes and be 100% legal.
We always have NEM auction who need NEMs and people who sell this NEMS to get $ again. But most of them will stay with NEMs to get dividends. And also we may have stabilization fund which will automatically sell $ if NEM price goes down for more then 2%.
Another security measure may be algorithm of fair exchange. Transactions must be put in query of individual NEM proposals divided to small amounts and mixed  with other peoples NEMs who want to change NEM to money too. Speed of query must be slow to point when it makes useless to try to destabilize economy to play on short selling. Everyone will loose the same amount.
This way we will pomp real transactions in the system, create stabilization fund and motivate people to earn more NEMS to receive more dividends income. People become owners of their own corporation. The more you help corporation to grow - the more revenue is sent back to you. If you destabilize it, speculate - you loose as everyone else.


What do you think?

ping @utopianfuture,

Dear sir, I believe DaFockBro deserves the same way treatment as qgmurugan007.
We don't need such people here.

Here are some suggestions on how to improve over Nxt

(1) Don't let the user choose the passphrase by default. Brain wallet should be an advanced feature and not a default option. Generate a 256-bit random seed for the user, and save that (in encrypted form) in wallet.dat file. The user will provide the password for the encryption. Don't ever save the seed unencrypted on the hard drive, ever. Don't make that an available option.  Encryption password must be a requirement (and the user must type it twice).

(2) Make the accounts deterministic, so the user will only have to back up wallet.dat once (not like Bitcoin's QT where regular backups are required).

Basically, it should work something like this:

seed = 256-bit randomly generated and saved encrypted in wallet.dat

Account-One = Hash (seed)

If the user creates more accounts,

Account-two = Hash (Account-One + seed)
Account-three =  Hash (Account-two + seed)

etc etc .

The user can create as many accounts as they want. As long as they never lose the seed, they will be fine. No regular backups required.  

(3) Do not include any code that has anything to do with signing transaction in server code. The signing  should be client's job. That way the users who don't want to download the server software can just download a lightweight client and connect to a public node and safely use it without ever transmitting the secret seed over the internet.

From the OP: NEM stake complaints going to a separate thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nem-nem-stake-complaint-questions-etc-450200

I want to follow this thread to keep up with the latest in NEM - not endless debating about the stake issue.

Use the stake complaint thread please!

What would be nice would be that you keep the money of all sock puppets who registered with more than 10 accounts. No need to refund them the money.

To everyone still discussing stakes:
Plz switch over to the stake complainst thread, plz search for it as I don't have the link right now.

Regarding the logos:
Imho 30, 21, 20, 17 need to be removed since they are not original. They are either completely stolen i.e. just taken as found in google or partially stolen (e.g. from EA).

Mainly replying so I can keep up with all the NEM developments.

Can't wait to see this coin rolled out!

i'm cool with that, i dont want any more complaints, we have an official complaints thread  
this must be the first coin to launch with a complaints thread, before a pool, hehe

So the poll is officially NOT official.  It's a good barometer of the most popular entries, so doesn't hurt IMO.

Utopian,

Why are there 4 Billion NEM?  Is it just to be like litecoin and be 4x the number of NXT?   More would be better such as 400 Billion.  I know that they can be divided as much as needed but this doesn't address the problem. No one wants to by a candy bar for .000625 BTC so people are already talking of using milli BTC but it's still awkward.  DOGE coin has the struck a better balance with this.  Dealing with small decimals is not only awkward, it's just psychologically more fun to feel like you own a lot of something.  4 Billion is less than 1 NEM per person in the world.  IF we want to make a currency that people can imagine being used all over the world there should be more than 4 Billion.

Thanks

@TM
anyone else knows about the poll?
shouldn't the poll be hosted somewhere like the nxtcrypto forum?

also, so many contestants with more than one logo running in the contest.
what if one contestant ends up with 3 out of 6 top spots?

also how come none of the posts on the logo, here or at nxtxrypto mention the fact that a poll has started, and the ending time?
i can see a second wave of complaints coming in...

Haven't you already made a complete fool of yourself in this thread whining about the 20 stakes that you've bought? And the part that amazes me is that you see the problem as being that you weren't intelligent enough to "mix" your transactions so you wouldn't get caught. You knew the IPO rules when you started investing. I haven't got anything positive to say about your commenting in this thread so I'll stop here.

As soon as possible I will publication my list of sockpuppet accounts. I would like to ask you don't worry about those people whose try to mixing their addresses. I have been working to identify them. There are other ways to catch them. I hope you understand why i don't give you more details.

I have to sadly agree. With all this talk going on here the fraudilent investors (don't get caught up in my terminology) now know to watch out and do their shit in a way that they don't get caught. If there isn't an solution to this problem ending the IPO is the only thing that will prevent those multi-buyers from buying more...

10stakes is too more.

I Know little English, I can't express myself 100% with google translator.

I am saying that we should ask for ID when we have many people who have bought stakes. I do not have 20 stakes, but I bought one for my mother, and 2 sisters, Total 10 stakes

We all live in 60 square meters, with 3 bikes and a dog. And my dream is to get a house, not a mansion. I have insured cover 80% of my stakes now sending ID.

If I can only have 4 stakes, I agree.


My friends are the last.Utopianfuture decides if I wants me back 5 stakes or not.

I don't want to create war, we have enough here to Spain. I Expect the worst, so when something comes, happy.

No deadline yet. It should be open until close to the launch.