My NEM had been stolen
f**K!!!
Topic: NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs - page 1680. (Read 2985503 times)
October 11, 2014, 07:52:14 PM
October 11, 2014, 07:32:14 PM
Everything has risk. Sometimes to do the ethical thing is more risky but it is right.
So you want people to buy nem on exchanges with a risk that anyone with access to BTT harddrive can crash nem? Why not put warning on top of client so people are warned that 500 million to billion mem can be stolen by BTTT owners? That way they are informed that nem is open to large theft before taking the risk of buying.
If a NEM stake claim has to be checked manually before final redemption it will be obvious if hundreds are being claimed at once from the same IP address. Same thing could happen to BTC if one of the large exchanges were hacked. Risk in crypto is nothing new. Just my opinion but I think NEM should let people claim their stake up to a year - otherwise NEM isn't showing itself to be fair and a New Economy Movement at all.
a year is far.. far too long.. what if in a year a stake is worth 20k dollars? and people that forgot start claiming and then just dumping the lot on the market? seeing as nem would still not have that high of a market cap, a dump like that would put shivers running through the market.. now imagine it happened 2-3 times a week..
then also whos is going to hold those coins? what if the devs are holding the stakes, which could amount to 100's of thousands or even millions if there is a lot, and they actually do get hacked or end up losing the coins how ever that may happen.. the core devs would be called scammers and that is a scare that would never.. ever fade.. confidence in the coin would be totally lost due to fear of those coins being dumped. holding half the unclaimed for 3 months would not be ideal but acceptable imo.. but a year is straight up out of the question. too much responsibility and risk involved. being in control of that amount of funds you dont own would be highly stressful aswell.
a year sounds to be long time ... but it may cause that the possible dumping is spread to the longer period, for example 10 months. It is unlikely that all those "slowtimers" will appear at the same time, 11 months from the launch. Possibly some of them will claim their stakes/coins 1 month after the launch and so on. Or maybe none of them will come back.
In this page is (at least) 2 alternatives for the unclaimed stakes:
- distribute them equally to all who have already claimed
- destroy them
They both have quite the same result in the sense of this value question:) what is the value of one person's share.
October 11, 2014, 07:18:14 PM
Do you really want the number 4 billion? 4 means death in a lot of cultures.
It's true.
Especially in China, 4 is the worst number.
It equals to the 13th Friday in Western.
Edit/I basically agree to investment fund.
But it may have a problem of a lawsuit by stakeholders who did not receive coins in the future when NEM value is incredibly high.
Burning them erases this problem in advance.
Burning them will prevent this probable lawsuit and also result in investment fund increase in the end.(by the scarcity of NEM and high value of each NEM.)
It's true.
Especially in China, 4 is the worst number.
It equals to the 13th Friday in Western.
Edit/I basically agree to investment fund.
But it may have a problem of a lawsuit by stakeholders who did not receive coins in the future when NEM value is incredibly high.
Burning them erases this problem in advance.
Burning them will prevent this probable lawsuit and also result in investment fund increase in the end.(by the scarcity of NEM and high value of each NEM.)
October 11, 2014, 06:30:27 PM
Distribute all unclaimed stakes(nems) equally to the addresses that will be in the genesis block and for nxt ae stakes you do later the same. 29% of the coin is already reserved for developing if you take more this is getting another ripple. Everything else is not fair.
I agree with this. or just destroy the unclaimed stakes. Stakeholders who doesn't even bother to check up on whats happening on this project at least once a month don't deserve this amazing thing we got goin on here. Remember guys we are not paying these devs out of our own pocket. Lets not make this difficult. If no one agrees to distribute it to every active nemebrs them lets just destroy it. enough already. Next chapter please.
Great job so far devs. Keep it up.
October 11, 2014, 05:55:54 PM
I am coming round to the idea of just destroying the stakes. This will increase the coins per capita, and also increase the development fund from the thousand stakes.
Easiest solution, everything else will be difficult to agree upon.
Easiest solution, everything else will be difficult to agree upon.
October 11, 2014, 05:37:21 PM
Everyone that says they want people to be able to claim their stake without any time limit you never mention any solution to how this could even be handled? Personally I can't even imagine any viable solution for this. The idea to start with (as I understood it) was that all stake holders were to be in the nemesis block and ALL NEM were to be distributed in it. So the people that say they want people to be able to claim their stakes within lets say a year, do you also want to postpone the launch a year?
October 11, 2014, 04:39:05 PM
Everything has risk. Sometimes to do the ethical thing is more risky but it is right.
So you want people to buy nem on exchanges with a risk that anyone with access to BTT harddrive can crash nem? Why not put warning on top of client so people are warned that 500 million to billion mem can be stolen by BTTT owners? That way they are informed that nem is open to large theft before taking the risk of buying.
If a NEM stake claim has to be checked manually before final redemption it will be obvious if hundreds are being claimed at once from the same IP address. Same thing could happen to BTC if one of the large exchanges were hacked. Risk in crypto is nothing new. Just my opinion but I think NEM should let people claim their stake up to a year - otherwise NEM isn't showing itself to be fair and a New Economy Movement at all.
You just dont get it do you? The call was for to participate in bringing forward this Movement. If people participated then they would know of the time limit .One month is more than enough time to click a mouse a couple of times to register. You must have participated and continue to participate to be part of this thing.
Some members were talking about 3/4 days to register. Ok , maybe too short but a month is more than long enough.
October 11, 2014, 04:37:01 PM
If a NEM stake claim has to be checked manually before final redemption it will be obvious if hundreds are being claimed at once from the same IP address. Same thing could happen to BTC if one of the large exchanges were hacked. Risk in crypto is nothing new. Just my opinion but I think NEM should let people claim their stake up to a year - otherwise NEM isn't showing itself to be fair and a New Economy Movement at all.
This is not just "large" exchange threat. There are still 1000+ unclaimed staked? That's bigger percentage than any large exchange.
Sorry, no launch until this is settled. Why are you in a hurry for launch?
October 11, 2014, 04:35:18 PM
Quick question, what is stopping all those who received their stakes for free from dumping? In my opinion, there will be a MEGA dump after everyone receives their stakes.
Nothing at all, but if there is going to be a "MEGA DUMP" like you say, why would they wait until launch to do that? Anyone could request a stake on the NXT AE and dump there if they wanted to. Why would someone who only wants to dump be waiting until launch to do so? I don't think there will be any sudden, excessive dumping at launch because it's not like those stakes have all been "locked up" until now. NEM has effectively been on the free market for months now.I rationalize it as differently. I paid almost no principle (like a Bitcoin buyer in 2009) and thus I have no principle to worry about recovering and thus no incentive to "cut my losses". Multiply that by 3000 and you get a lot of stability. That's why Bitcoin, despite the chaos, has some stability too (due to all the 2009 / 2010 people who are still holding).
When did you buy your NEMStake? The lowest the price had been was around 14,000 NXT per NEMStake, and that was back when NXT's price was double what it currently is.
For those who dont remember, the first
)didnt paid anything on the first nem thread.I do remember to pay something around 0,05 BTC on my stake. This was the second thread of nem inviting for investitors
refreshing =)
on december 2013 - january 2014
First 20 pages : free to join in
pages 21-30 : fee = 0.001 btc or 10nxt
pages 31-40 : fee= 0.002 btc or 20 nxt ;
pages 41-50 : fee= 0.004 btc or 40 nxt
page 51-60 : fee= 0.008btc or 80nxt
page 61-70 : fee=0.016btc or 160nxt
page 71-80 :fee=0.0025 or 250nxt
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-nem-4-billions-coins-part-1-this-thread-is-no-longer-used-422129
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4894028
October 11, 2014, 04:33:35 PM
We should put the unclaimed stakes in a multisig escrow and take 10% of them per month for use on the project or just destroy them. They will be safe in the escrow and if someone wants to make a late claim they will have 10 months after release to do so. We could speed it up to 20% per month for 5 months or even 33% for 3 months if that is better.
October 11, 2014, 04:30:09 PM
Everything has risk. Sometimes to do the ethical thing is more risky but it is right.
So you want people to buy nem on exchanges with a risk that anyone with access to BTT harddrive can crash nem? Why not put warning on top of client so people are warned that 500 million to billion mem can be stolen by BTTT owners? That way they are informed that nem is open to large theft before taking the risk of buying.
If a NEM stake claim has to be checked manually before final redemption it will be obvious if hundreds are being claimed at once from the same IP address. Same thing could happen to BTC if one of the large exchanges were hacked. Risk in crypto is nothing new. Just my opinion but I think NEM should let people claim their stake up to a year - otherwise NEM isn't showing itself to be fair and a New Economy Movement at all.
October 11, 2014, 04:25:54 PM
This seems realy fair, people should have the chance to claim their stake until one Year, and maybe some lucky People who claimed their stake later will be the best marketing for NEM.
So you dont need to get hot heads about the handeling with unclaimed stakes, it would be the best way to show that the NEM community is different to other cryptocommunitys.
The NEM Fund for Marketing is big enough for a year and more, after a year we could decide to use all unclaimed stakes for marketing too, after we have seen how things going on. I think that erverbody would agree that one year holding back funds is ok.
So we would find a good solution for both, Stakeholders and for the community at all using it for Marketing and independent Developers for the NEM Economy.
So you dont need to get hot heads about the handeling with unclaimed stakes, it would be the best way to show that the NEM community is different to other cryptocommunitys.
The NEM Fund for Marketing is big enough for a year and more, after a year we could decide to use all unclaimed stakes for marketing too, after we have seen how things going on. I think that erverbody would agree that one year holding back funds is ok.
So we would find a good solution for both, Stakeholders and for the community at all using it for Marketing and independent Developers for the NEM Economy.
October 11, 2014, 04:23:26 PM
Everything has risk. Sometimes to do the ethical thing is more risky but it is right.
So you want people to buy nem on exchanges with a risk that anyone with access to BTT harddrive can crash nem? Why not put warning on top of client so people are warned that 500 million to billion mem can be stolen by BTTT owners? That way they are informed that nem is open to large theft before taking the risk of buying.
October 11, 2014, 04:20:22 PM
Distribute all unclaimed stakes(nems) equally to the addresses that will be in the genesis block and for nxt ae stakes you do later the same. 29% of the coin is already reserved for developing if you take more this is getting another ripple. Everything else is not fair.
October 11, 2014, 04:20:15 PM
Well that's something, but I'm really surprised at how most people here don't seem to care about those people who may miss the launch of NEM for some reason, and decide to check in later to find out it was all for nothing ... Seems more like how a bank operates lol.
If you are that worried, even though they have a month of emails and warning, then lets delay the launch to December.
We cannot and should not launch a coin with potential theft of billion coins after the launch.
No we can launch and people can claim stakes after launch. Just my opinion.
No, as we cannot launch when there is potential threat of large theft. Crypto transactions are irreversible. We can catch the problems before the launch and fix them, but we can't after the launch as then all transactions would be final. No launch until this issue is settled.
Everything has risk. Sometimes to do the ethical thing is more risky but it is right.
October 11, 2014, 04:17:28 PM
Well that's something, but I'm really surprised at how most people here don't seem to care about those people who may miss the launch of NEM for some reason, and decide to check in later to find out it was all for nothing ... Seems more like how a bank operates lol.
If you are that worried, even though they have a month of emails and warning, then lets delay the launch to December.
We cannot and should not launch a coin with potential theft of billion coins after the launch.
No we can launch and people can claim stakes after launch. Just my opinion.
No, as we cannot launch when there is potential threat of large theft. Crypto transactions are irreversible. We can catch the problems before the launch and fix them, but we can't after the launch as then all transactions would be final. No launch until this issue is settled.
October 11, 2014, 04:15:32 PM
Well that's something, but I'm really surprised at how most people here don't seem to care about those people who may miss the launch of NEM for some reason, and decide to check in later to find out it was all for nothing ... Seems more like how a bank operates lol.
If you are that worried, even though they have a month of emails and warning, then lets delay the launch to December.
We cannot and should not launch a coin with potential theft of billion coins after the launch.
No we can launch and people can claim stakes after launch. Just my opinion.
I don't want to be here in the shitstorm in a months time, when NEM is accused of scamming, people are really, really angry when, if instead they could claim their stake they would be valuable members of NEM community
October 11, 2014, 04:14:39 PM
When people paid to buy a NEM stake I don't remember there being a time limit to claim the stake. It is just my opinion but I think we all need to keep grounded and not lose sight of common sense values (such as if someone pays for something it belongs to them). Otherwise what kind of movement are we really creating?
You keep ignoring the fact that leaving 100s of stakes open forever means that there is good chance someone with access to BTT server will have power to steal these stakes and kill/crash nem completely. How is that crypto? The fate of unclaimed stakes must be decided before the distribution.
That is the first good argument I have heard for having a time limit on claiming the stakes. One month is still too short we need to give people more time ...
EDIT: Although I don't think there is a good chance that would happen.
Why don't you think there is a not good chance that will happen? All BTT messages are archived on some hard drive. The BTT owner can already do that, so can everyone with access to that machine, not just now but someday in future one or two year from now. How are you putting the entire fate of nem in the hands of people you don't know? Why the heck anyone should buy nem when it's fate is totally insecure with future influx of "billion" nem from unknown people?
I don't care how long you want that wait to continue. Nem should not launch until this issue is settled.
I agree a decision needs to be made.
October 11, 2014, 04:13:46 PM
Well that's something, but I'm really surprised at how most people here don't seem to care about those people who may miss the launch of NEM for some reason, and decide to check in later to find out it was all for nothing ... Seems more like how a bank operates lol.
If you are that worried, even though they have a month of emails and warning, then lets delay the launch to December.
We cannot and should not launch a coin with potential theft of billion coins after the launch.
October 11, 2014, 04:12:30 PM
When people paid to buy a NEM stake I don't remember there being a time limit to claim the stake. It is just my opinion but I think we all need to keep grounded and not lose sight of common sense values (such as if someone pays for something it belongs to them). Otherwise what kind of movement are we really creating?
You keep ignoring the fact that leaving 100s of stakes open forever means that there is good chance someone with access to BTT server will have power to steal these stakes and kill/crash nem completely. How is that crypto? The fate of unclaimed stakes must be decided before the distribution.
That is the first good argument I have heard for having a time limit on claiming the stakes. One month is still too short we need to give people more time ...
EDIT: Although I don't think there is a good chance that would happen.
They said they would offer a refund.
Well that's something, but I'm really surprised at how most people here don't seem to care about those people who may miss the launch of NEM for some reason, and decide to check in later to find out it was all for nothing ... Seems more like how a bank operates lol.
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