NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs - page 1684.

TaunSew

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Quote from: nembit86 on October 11, 2014, 11:30:08 AM

Quote from: starfishi on October 11, 2014, 11:27:22 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: nembit86 on October 11, 2014, 11:14:07 AM

Maybe if some of you guys had been around more on the forums and contributed to discussions more over the last 9 months rather than the last 9 days then you would be listened to more.........on second thoughts , probably not as the comments dont make sense.

What !
I´m trying . .

Yes.....very trying Kiss

I choked up from laughter Cheesy

nembit86

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NEM ....best currency distribution ever ...!!!!!!!

Quote from: starfishi on October 11, 2014, 11:27:22 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: nembit86 on October 11, 2014, 11:14:07 AM

Maybe if some of you guys had been around more on the forums and contributed to discussions more over the last 9 months rather than the last 9 days then you would be listened to more.........on second thoughts , probably not as the comments dont make sense.

What !
I´m trying . .

Yes.....very trying Kiss

nottrulyevil

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I think the core team has to set a specific date for when all ideas on how to handle the unclaimed stakes have to be put on the table. After that date the core team will either have to:

(1) Put up a public vote (although this will enable anyone to vote not just the stake holders) with the most popular (and viable) suggestions (you have to be able to vote for more than one thing for it to be democratic though, or you have to only have two options).

(2) Decide themselfves what is best for the entire community and NEM itself. If we go with this path I think it's really important that the final decision is extremely well motivated.

Either one of these two options is fine for me but I think it's important to give clear statement and that we all have a straight path to follow. It's not good if we just let this discussion go on forever. We need someone to make final decisions, if that is the team or the community I don't know, but someone has to do it and it has to go fast!

starfishi

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: nembit86 on October 11, 2014, 11:14:07 AM

Maybe if some of you guys had been around more on the forums and contributed to discussions more over the last 9 months rather than the last 9 days then you would be listened to more.........on second thoughts , probably not as the comments dont make sense.

What !
I´m trying . .

nembit86

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Activity: 588

Merit: 500

NEM ....best currency distribution ever ...!!!!!!!

Quote from: wiser on October 11, 2014, 11:22:34 AM

I was one of the people (newbies) who initially suggested an extended waiting period. But then I got educated about the issues involved as well as the fact that it had been stated right up front that there would be four days to claim stakes.

Also, even though I haven't been super involved, I have kept tabs on the thread and when in doubt have messaged people asking about when I should start paying even closer attention. I was concerned I'd miss the launch or something. I feel like I've been given adequate information and adequate time. My real clue came when I got the PM with a token number

I'm cool with the decision as it is.

As for what to do with the unclaimed stakes, I like the idea of an investment fund--something along the lines of the NXTVenture fund where it invests in new companies and spins off new assets. Maybe the shares in the fund could be initially divided up among the claimed stakeholders, and then we can trade them on the NEM asset exchange if we so desire?

I also would support siphoning off some for marketing and development. You really need lots of both to maintain a successful alt coin.

And of course, do everything in a very transparent and careful way, etc.

Wise comment from Wiser!!!!

wiser

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I was one of the people (newbies) who initially suggested an extended waiting period. But then I got educated about the issues involved as well as the fact that it had been stated right up front that there would be four days to claim stakes.

Also, even though I haven't been super involved, I have kept tabs on the thread and when in doubt have messaged people asking about when I should start paying even closer attention. I was concerned I'd miss the launch or something. I feel like I've been given adequate information and adequate time. My real clue came when I got the PM with a token number

I'm cool with the decision as it is.

As for what to do with the unclaimed stakes, I like the idea of an investment fund--something along the lines of the NXTVenture fund where it invests in new companies and spins off new assets. Maybe the shares in the fund could be initially divided up among the claimed stakeholders, and then we can trade them on the NEM asset exchange if we so desire?

I also would support siphoning off some for marketing and development. You really need lots of both to maintain a successful alt coin.

And of course, do everything in a very transparent and careful way, etc.

nembit86

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

NEM ....best currency distribution ever ...!!!!!!!

Quote from: sdersdf3 on October 11, 2014, 09:36:54 AM

Quote from: amytheplanarshift on October 11, 2014, 09:26:30 AM

Quote from: sdersdf3 on October 11, 2014, 09:17:24 AM

Quote from: patmast3r on October 11, 2014, 05:26:39 AM

Quote from: sdersdf3 on October 11, 2014, 05:09:00 AM

We should consider that not everyone lives on bitcointalk.org and we should give all of those who paid for their stakes as much time as practical to claim what they paid for.

The key phrase being as practical. As practical for whom ? The peole that work on NEM everyday or the people that don't have the decency to check on their investment at least once a month ?

Quote from: sdersdf3 on October 11, 2014, 05:09:00 AM

How long do those who haven't yet claimed their stakes have to register, and is anything else besides the bitcointalk PM messaging being tried to reach them?

A month but the process was made public weeks before it started.
What do you suggest we try ? It's been on tweeted, spread in both forums, sent out in a newsletter (to emails where we have them) and is being discussed for weeks not already.

And let me reiterate my inquery about any other coin that has had a distribution phase of more than 1 month. Who in hell waited 6 months for their peolpe to come ?

There could be any of a number of reasons why people haven't checked in, including plain forgetfulness. Please do not taint the launch with controversy - put off this question until after the launch.

After a well-publicised launch, there'd presumably be a stronger argument for clawing back what stake buyerse have not claimed. But considering something like that before the launch risks inviting controversy in a very jittery market that will risk messing up this entire thing. This market bails on the faintest hint of FUD-attracting controversy.

There is no controversy. This has been the decision for a long, long time now. Only now that we are close to launch for some reason people are bringing it up as if it is some new revelation like the devs suddenly changed the rules. I am honestly perplexed as to why people who have not posted or contributed anything to NEM over the past year have suddenly decided to come out now to try and change a policy that has been in place for some time now.

I just dont want a botched launch that provides bait for FUD posses. The price is down from 2.9btc to 2.35 btc over the past week, and I'm hoping consideration of this isn't the reason for that.

There are multiple NEM threads -- is there an authoritative [ANN] that specified these terms at the outset?

Dont worry, the launch will be squeaky clean and the so- called Nemsters that didnt bother to claim will have nothing. Thats the way of the world guys .Maybe if some of you guys had been around more on the forums and contributed to discussions more over the last 9 months rather than the last 9 days then you would be listened to more.........on second thoughts , probably not as the comments dont make sense.

starfishi

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Quote from: amytheplanarshift on October 11, 2014, 10:50:03 AM

Quote from: starfishi on October 11, 2014, 10:43:50 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: starfishi on October 11, 2014, 10:20:50 AM

Quote from: jkoil on October 11, 2014, 09:08:38 AM

Quote from: rockethead on October 11, 2014, 03:17:05 AM

...
We don't need people who'd only suggest problems to a problem. Because that itself is a problem. What we need is a solution to a problem.

Sometimes both "activity" has its benefits. The latter ofc solves the original problem. And the previous can enlarge the discussion around the problem and therefore helps someone to invent the solution.

Damn, why can´t i come up with beautiful sentences like this, really. Thanks, "jkoil".
Anyway, @"rockethead": you oldtimers control NEM, and we newbies are not entitled to an opinion, or what ?

(btw, i´m no "newbie", just opening my mouth now, a bit loud, i confess . .

)

Well that's been the case on Bitcointalk for a long time now. People are buying full member and senior accounts for money, so people will listen to their "opinions", and this is the whole forum we are talking about.

Case and point - NEM has a rather large pool of 1200+ veterans and additional hundreds more who came before March and more importantly these people had prior experience in other coins. That's a lot of experience and there is a lot of exchange of ideas which makes it possible to utilize that experience.

That's compared to something like NODE coin which has a $hitcoin capitalization because only two of their developers browse Bitcointalk, don't really venture outside of NODE much and they don't listen to any experienced ALTers on Bitcointalk. Veteran ALTers on this forum have seen the rise & fall of 100s of alternates and know what went wrong but if you don't listen to them then it's hopeless.

NEM on the other hand had developers who themselves were previously active in other coins, then the many experienced veterans who can have their opinions heard, et cetera. This is why NEM has had a very good capitalization for a long time (unreleased based on 4 billion coins or 4000 stakes it's been worth $4-$6 million for awhile). Experience comes with a price tag.

I read only: veterans and veterans. Do i have a place in here, or not ?

Of course you do! Please don't feel that way. The point here is that just because you post an opinion does not mean that people are automatically going to bend over backwards to do whatever your suggestion is and that your opinion may actually be a bad idea (not saying yours is, just saying that you may have to accept that).

Basically what you seem to be saying now, though, is that "nobody wants to implement my suggestion so I have no place here" but just because you feel strongly about a certain suggestion personally does not mean that the rest of the community will agree, and at some point you have to accept that.

Ok, accepted !

TaunSew

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Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Actually it is a bad idea from a legality point of view. UP went through a lot of effort to make sure NEM wasn't a security IPO. Now you are trying to make it into an expiring gift card.

Granted an illegal gift card is not as bad as an illegal security but in many countries gift cards cannot expire or lose value anymore, which this proposition is exactly. You are theoretically opening yourself up to a lawsuit down the road where someone could take you to court over this NEM 'gift card' and this is a predictable court ruling. Common law is based on past precedent ruling and prior judges have ruled that you can't revoke gift cards.

amytheplanarshift

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Activity: 588

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Quote from: starfishi on October 11, 2014, 10:43:50 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: starfishi on October 11, 2014, 10:20:50 AM

Quote from: jkoil on October 11, 2014, 09:08:38 AM

Quote from: rockethead on October 11, 2014, 03:17:05 AM

...
We don't need people who'd only suggest problems to a problem. Because that itself is a problem. What we need is a solution to a problem.

Sometimes both "activity" has its benefits. The latter ofc solves the original problem. And the previous can enlarge the discussion around the problem and therefore helps someone to invent the solution.

Damn, why can´t i come up with beautiful sentences like this, really. Thanks, "jkoil".
Anyway, @"rockethead": you oldtimers control NEM, and we newbies are not entitled to an opinion, or what ?

(btw, i´m no "newbie", just opening my mouth now, a bit loud, i confess . .

)

Well that's been the case on Bitcointalk for a long time now. People are buying full member and senior accounts for money, so people will listen to their "opinions", and this is the whole forum we are talking about.

Case and point - NEM has a rather large pool of 1200+ veterans and additional hundreds more who came before March and more importantly these people had prior experience in other coins. That's a lot of experience and there is a lot of exchange of ideas which makes it possible to utilize that experience.

That's compared to something like NODE coin which has a $hitcoin capitalization because only two of their developers browse Bitcointalk, don't really venture outside of NODE much and they don't listen to any experienced ALTers on Bitcointalk. Veteran ALTers on this forum have seen the rise & fall of 100s of alternates and know what went wrong but if you don't listen to them then it's hopeless.

NEM on the other hand had developers who themselves were previously active in other coins, then the many experienced veterans who can have their opinions heard, et cetera. This is why NEM has had a very good capitalization for a long time (unreleased based on 4 billion coins or 4000 stakes it's been worth $4-$6 million for awhile). Experience comes with a price tag.

I read only: veterans and veterans. Do i have a place in here, or not ?

Of course you do! Please don't feel that way. The point here is that just because you post an opinion does not mean that people are automatically going to bend over backwards to do whatever your suggestion is and that your opinion may actually be a bad idea (not saying yours is, just saying that you may have to accept that).

Basically what you seem to be saying now, though, is that "nobody wants to implement my suggestion so I have no place here" but just because you feel strongly about a certain suggestion personally does not mean that the rest of the community will agree, and at some point you have to accept that.

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: starfishi on October 11, 2014, 10:43:50 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: starfishi on October 11, 2014, 10:20:50 AM

Quote from: jkoil on October 11, 2014, 09:08:38 AM

Quote from: rockethead on October 11, 2014, 03:17:05 AM

...
We don't need people who'd only suggest problems to a problem. Because that itself is a problem. What we need is a solution to a problem.

Sometimes both "activity" has its benefits. The latter ofc solves the original problem. And the previous can enlarge the discussion around the problem and therefore helps someone to invent the solution.

Damn, why can´t i come up with beautiful sentences like this, really. Thanks, "jkoil".
Anyway, @"rockethead": you oldtimers control NEM, and we newbies are not entitled to an opinion, or what ?

(btw, i´m no "newbie", just opening my mouth now, a bit loud, i confess . .

)

Well that's been the case on Bitcointalk for a long time now. People are buying full member and senior accounts for money, so people will listen to their "opinions", and this is the whole forum we are talking about.

Case and point - NEM has a rather large pool of 1200+ veterans and additional hundreds more who came before March and more importantly these people had prior experience in other coins. That's a lot of experience and there is a lot of exchange of ideas which makes it possible to utilize that experience.

That's compared to something like NODE coin which has a $hitcoin capitalization because only two of their developers browse Bitcointalk, don't really venture outside of NODE much and they don't listen to any experienced ALTers on Bitcointalk. Veteran ALTers on this forum have seen the rise & fall of 100s of alternates and know what went wrong but if you don't listen to them then it's hopeless.

NEM on the other hand had developers who themselves were previously active in other coins, then the many experienced veterans who can have their opinions heard, et cetera. This is why NEM has had a very good capitalization for a long time (unreleased based on 4 billion coins or 4000 stakes it's been worth $4-$6 million for awhile). Experience comes with a price tag.

I read only: veterans and veterans. Do i have a place in here, or not ?

Knee jerk ideas, which have been done in other alternates and had negative results, are neither welcomed from veterans or newbies. Especially if it got shot down 3 times before, mentioning it a 4th time is rather pointless.

starfishi

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Activity: 175

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: starfishi on October 11, 2014, 10:20:50 AM

Quote from: jkoil on October 11, 2014, 09:08:38 AM

Quote from: rockethead on October 11, 2014, 03:17:05 AM

...
We don't need people who'd only suggest problems to a problem. Because that itself is a problem. What we need is a solution to a problem.

Sometimes both "activity" has its benefits. The latter ofc solves the original problem. And the previous can enlarge the discussion around the problem and therefore helps someone to invent the solution.

Damn, why can´t i come up with beautiful sentences like this, really. Thanks, "jkoil".
Anyway, @"rockethead": you oldtimers control NEM, and we newbies are not entitled to an opinion, or what ?

(btw, i´m no "newbie", just opening my mouth now, a bit loud, i confess . .

)

Well that's been the case on Bitcointalk for a long time now. People are buying full member and senior accounts for money, so people will listen to their "opinions", and this is the whole forum we are talking about.

Case and point - NEM has a rather large pool of 1200+ veterans and additional hundreds more who came before March and more importantly these people had prior experience in other coins. That's a lot of experience and there is a lot of exchange of ideas which makes it possible to utilize that experience.

That's compared to something like NODE coin which has a $hitcoin capitalization because only two of their developers browse Bitcointalk, don't really venture outside of NODE much and they don't listen to any experienced ALTers on Bitcointalk. Veteran ALTers on this forum have seen the rise & fall of 100s of alternates and know what went wrong but if you don't listen to them then it's hopeless.

NEM on the other hand had developers who themselves were previously active in other coins, then the many experienced veterans who can have their opinions heard, et cetera. This is why NEM has had a very good capitalization for a long time (unreleased based on 4 billion coins or 4000 stakes it's been worth $4-$6 million for awhile). Experience comes with a price tag.

I read only: veterans and veterans. Do i have a place in here, or not ?

patmast3r

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Merit: 1001

Quote from: sdersdf3 on October 11, 2014, 10:14:15 AM

Quote from: DrearyUrbanite on October 11, 2014, 10:00:52 AM

Quote from: solix on October 11, 2014, 09:54:06 AM

Why not do what some pre paid debit cards or gift cards do and just have a "maintenance fee" for inactivity. In this way there would be a "cost" for folks here that would be spending their precious time responding to out of band requests to get their stake? Just advertise that plainly. Inaction has a cost but at least you get _something_. Every month past incurs some set % of the stake in expense (to go to dev fund or whatever) as motivation to claim it or lose it?

This sounds reasonable to me - a year from now there will be nothing left to claim and percentage of the fee goes to whoever has to keep track of who is owed what.

Sounds reasonable and fair to me too -- and it puts off concentration so less risk of dump fears and market disruption. I'd still put off a decision on this until after the launch just to avoid any risk of doing anything that unintentionally taints the launch.

That is actually not the worst idea.
I would most definetely not go for a year though. A few extra months at most.
I'll talk the the rest about it.

starfishi

full member

Activity: 175

Merit: 100

Quote from: jkoil on October 11, 2014, 09:08:38 AM

Quote from: rockethead on October 11, 2014, 03:17:05 AM

...
We don't need people who'd only suggest problems to a problem. Because that itself is a problem. What we need is a solution to a problem.

Sometimes both "activity" has its benefits. The latter ofc solves the original problem. And the previous can enlarge the discussion around the problem and therefore helps someone to invent the solution.

Damn, why can´t i come up with beautiful sentences like this, really. Thanks, "jkoil".
Anyway, @"rockethead": you oldtimers control NEM, and we newbies are not entitled to an opinion, or what ? But, well it´s a problem, but we can compromise, no ?

(btw, i´m no "newbie", just opening my mouth now, a bit loud, i confess . .

)

rabbiter

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Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Am I right in thinking we won't get our actual coins till next month?

sdersdf3

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: DrearyUrbanite on October 11, 2014, 10:00:52 AM

Quote from: solix on October 11, 2014, 09:54:06 AM

Why not do what some pre paid debit cards or gift cards do and just have a "maintenance fee" for inactivity. In this way there would be a "cost" for folks here that would be spending their precious time responding to out of band requests to get their stake? Just advertise that plainly. Inaction has a cost but at least you get _something_. Every month past incurs some set % of the stake in expense (to go to dev fund or whatever) as motivation to claim it or lose it?

This sounds reasonable to me - a year from now there will be nothing left to claim and percentage of the fee goes to whoever has to keep track of who is owed what.

Sounds reasonable and fair to me too -- and it puts off concentration so less risk of dump fears and market disruption. I'd still put off a decision on this until after the launch just to avoid any risk of doing anything that unintentionally taints the launch.

DrearyUrbanite

sr. member

Activity: 756

Merit: 250

Quote from: solix on October 11, 2014, 09:54:06 AM

Why not do what some pre paid debit cards or gift cards do and just have a "maintenance fee" for inactivity. In this way there would be a "cost" for folks here that would be spending their precious time responding to out of band requests to get their stake? Just advertise that plainly. Inaction has a cost but at least you get _something_. Every month past incurs some set % of the stake in expense (to go to dev fund or whatever) as motivation to claim it or lose it?

This sounds reasonable to me - a year from now there will be nothing left to claim and percentage of the fee goes to whoever has to keep track of who is owed what.

solix

full member

Activity: 180

Merit: 100

Why not do what some pre paid debit cards or gift cards do and just have a "maintenance fee" for inactivity. In this way there would be a "cost" for folks here that would be spending their precious time responding to out of band requests to get their stake? Just advertise that plainly. Inaction has a cost but at least you get _something_. Every month past incurs some set % of the stake in expense (to go to dev fund or whatever) as motivation to claim it or lose it?

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

The newbie account is strong with this one. Countless coins, even your beloved NxT, had cut people off and it had no impact on capitalization.

As for your nitpicking about capitalization - you do realize the NxT value of NEM went up by 1000 since thursday? Huh

Really you are attributing things to random fluctuations in trading. If you really wanted prices to go down then watch what happens when people start dumping stakes, which they had forgotten about, for a quick payday.

sdersdf3

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: amytheplanarshift on October 11, 2014, 09:26:30 AM

Quote from: sdersdf3 on October 11, 2014, 09:17:24 AM

Quote from: patmast3r on October 11, 2014, 05:26:39 AM

Quote from: sdersdf3 on October 11, 2014, 05:09:00 AM

We should consider that not everyone lives on bitcointalk.org and we should give all of those who paid for their stakes as much time as practical to claim what they paid for.

The key phrase being as practical. As practical for whom ? The peole that work on NEM everyday or the people that don't have the decency to check on their investment at least once a month ?

Quote from: sdersdf3 on October 11, 2014, 05:09:00 AM

How long do those who haven't yet claimed their stakes have to register, and is anything else besides the bitcointalk PM messaging being tried to reach them?

A month but the process was made public weeks before it started.
What do you suggest we try ? It's been on tweeted, spread in both forums, sent out in a newsletter (to emails where we have them) and is being discussed for weeks not already.

And let me reiterate my inquery about any other coin that has had a distribution phase of more than 1 month. Who in hell waited 6 months for their peolpe to come ?

There could be any of a number of reasons why people haven't checked in, including plain forgetfulness. Please do not taint the launch with controversy - put off this question until after the launch.

After a well-publicised launch, there'd presumably be a stronger argument for clawing back what stake buyerse have not claimed. But considering something like that before the launch risks inviting controversy in a very jittery market that will risk messing up this entire thing. This market bails on the faintest hint of FUD-attracting controversy.

There is no controversy. This has been the decision for a long, long time now. Only now that we are close to launch for some reason people are bringing it up as if it is some new revelation like the devs suddenly changed the rules. I am honestly perplexed as to why people who have not posted or contributed anything to NEM over the past year have suddenly decided to come out now to try and change a policy that has been in place for some time now.

I just dont want a botched launch that provides bait for FUD posses. The price is down from 2.9btc to 2.35 btc over the past week, and I'm hoping consideration of this isn't the reason for that.

There are multiple NEM threads -- is there an authoritative [ANN] that specified these terms at the outset?

Topic: NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs - page 1684. (Read 2985503 times)