Topic: New Official AMT Thread - page 100. (Read 149472 times)

Well fact is they got scared off now. Everyone even those of us who previously supported them now want answers and are not willing to settle for anything less than what we paid for. The problem is they are looking to give us less than what we paid for and it has been that way from the start. That runs afoul of alot of bait and switch tactics, and a number of other fraud related items. Fact that they didn't have any working hardware or apparently even prototypes ready at order time way back when they started is an indication that they have been flying by the seat of their pants here.  Our money was used to fund their business in a very investor like fashion. They skirted around the legalities of that as well.

At this point I am expecting to see the next email as being the settlement. And honestly that settlement has better be something that compensates us fully for our trouble....

The time for words is past....I want to see some actionable items. I want results. This thread has been their primary means of communication with us. Email for most is non-existent. Phone is non-existent if they moved their office, they are likely not using the same number.

Somehow I doubt their lawyer is as flaky as they are and say "first thing in the morning" and not deliver. I think this was another AMT line to get us to be pacified. All it did is turn everyone against them now.
more than 3 days have past since that original announcement.

AMT_miners - please tell me what to do with this broken miner, I have been trying to return it to you for a month now. I call you, no one picks up, no one returns my emails and you are no longer picking up your mail. You also do not answer me here in the forum. Are you stilll in business anymore? If you are it is a very odd way to run a business.

Still crickets in here. No info no update no nothing from AMT. I really was hoping they had turned the corner and I was in support of that...but more of the same talking no action.  Oh also I would like to be compensated for the power supplies I had to buy that should have been included with my purchase in the first place. ALso the extra equipment like a heat sensor and fluke are things that NOONE should have to purchase. Many of the people here are not engineers. They want hardware that just works. As do I.

New AMT theme song Sounds of Silence.

Regardless the settlement should be something that compensates us for our losses here. Honestly it would suck to see any business fail....especially with our money still tied up in it. But if they have any hope of restoring any customer confidence back they need to start by making this right. That means HONEST communication. FOLLOWING through on what they say they will do. And stop blaming their customers for their problems. We got bad hardware. The nice thing is there is more than enough data to support that now. They also openly admitted the hardware was bad and shipped it to us anyway. So now they are forced to make this right.

Once that is all done everyone can put this whole thing behind them and move on, if they choose to keep going as a business then they should but improve their processes so they don't repeat history for themselves.

Oh and we are 48 hours past their original announcement. It will be 3 days with nothing from AMT. MY guess that little item is being added to the laundry list of misrepresentations for the class action.

+1 Pretty much my view as well.
I tend to believe that folks behind AMT were pure marketing background with little to no experience in actually *designing* a technically complex product of any sort much less producing it in volume. If they tried to outsource all the knowledge it takes to design and produce it for them...man they chose the wrong folks. If AMT survives this I hope to God they learn from it what it take to bring a complex product to market.

As for Bitmine.ch whom AMT relied on for design reference - well BMch should have known better. Did they learn nothing from making the Avalon-based systems?

I rather wonder how the 1st 1/2 of the year sales of some component makers are going to do from the overall miner mess. Safe bet that a lot of critical parts are pretty tapped out like Vcore buck inductors, the  A1 uses 6 per board other chip designs use similar number per-watt needed, the multitude of power chip caps, etc. Multiply that by 5 boards for 1TH system and then by how many hundreds (thousands?) of orders from AMT, Bitmine, Innosilicon/Dragon, etc. Not to mention again the other ASIC rig makers using other chips.

With all of them hitting the market at the same time - eep. The supply chain doesn't have that much of a surge buffer for power components if everyone waits until the last minute to order. Worse, as AMT found out a component from one maker is not necessarily the same as one from a different maker. Ya gotta look at *all* the data in the spec sheets not just a 7 column summary of family min/max values... Capacity from trusted and design-proven component makers is there but takes time to catch up.

Well I just want satisfaction since we have been waiting so long and this way we can be getting what we paid for and a little extra, also we will be saving them money so they can stay in business and try to figure out the problems with their equipment so they can run a successful business.

I would actually be ok with this only if I got two which is the equivalent of 5100 or so. They still get to pocket 400 bucks (more if the 400 per miner discount gets applied)

Been trying that for ages with them. Heck, they sending me one Antminer s2 would let them keep almost 1/2 as profit with the $4,089 I paid for a lowly 520... Even if they are under contract with Bitmine.ch to exclusively deal with A1 hardware, pretty sure that given the state of thing all restrictions like that are or should be off.

Hi AMT. Can you just like buy me a miner from another company? Then we can call it even and you get to keep the majority of my $6000?

Long time train wreck viewer here, and I'll leave the main subject matter to the people actually involved, but on this particular front: no, not really all that impossible.  It's impossible to predict for the future, but in this case you would only have to deal with historical data.  If you've got your theoretical hash rate, a pool's historical hash rate, their solved blocks, shares, their fee, and all that jazz, then you can certainly get a pretty good estimate of the BTC payout you would have gotten at that pool when not taking into account that your specific miner could have been one to solve one or more blocks.  You pick this as favorable to you as you can find along with a few slightly less favorable scenarios, and the other party would have to present the least favorable scenarios - and it's pretty much guaranteed that all of the ones that are reasonable are still going to be better than the scenario of under-performing, dead or undelivered miners.  If the matter of 'potential lost revenue' comes to bear, I'm sure advisers will be asking exactly for that sort of information, and then some, and have people who consider it their passion to run numbers, run the numbers.

it's not that complicated to calculate lost revenue. Historical price of Bitcoin can be looked up on a hourly/daily/weekly basis. Should be about $3,000 worth.

someone should make a AMT LOST REVENUE website and have a ticking total similar to the national debt clocks like http://www.usadebtclock.com/

hey no need to drag JZ and Beyonce into this lol....jk but yea you make a good point.

AMT, you need to read this article and see how many parallels you have with this company.


HashFast Cuts 50% of Staff, Denies Bankruptcy Rumors
http://www.coindesk.com/hashfast-cuts-50-of-staff-denies-bankruptcy-rumors/


Some excerpts...
HashFast is currently embroiled in two federal fraud lawsuits and five arbitration cases that allege the company is guilty of breach of contract and fraud related to issues stemming from production delays.

...
The pivot, however, may do little to assuage the company’s disappointed customers, some of whom have started a website to detail setbacks in production at the California company.

...
Joe Russell indicated that as part of the changes, HashFast is also looking to become more effective at communicating to the public and its customer base.

...
HashFast noted that it has been converting its existing system and board orders to ASICs orders, even for those who are currently seeking legal action.

AMT, when are you going to start communicating  

Incredibly useful parallel. Thanks for that. I saw others but that's the best one to use in this.

I have been thinking about that.  The securities laws are very powerful and really the essence of these pre-sale agreements is a highly risky type of investment contract (which is a security).  There is a famous old case which defined an investment contract as:

(1) investment of money
(2) an expectation of profits arising from a common enterprise
(3) which depends solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party

Securities and Exchange Commission vs. W. J. Howey Co., 328 U.S. 93 (1943).  

In the Howey case, the promoter was selling ownership units in a citrus grove, together with a maintenance agreement to farm the citrus and remit the profits to investors.  The Court created the above test to determine that these contracts were "investment contracts" and therefore were subject to securities laws.

I am not a securities lawyer, but it is an interesting parallel.  Here, we invested in a non-existent product that appears to have not even been designed or tested until recently.  The whole point of our investment was to be able to use AMT's machines, developed with our money, to farm bitcoins.  Our $6 million (more or less) funded acquisition of the A1 chips, development of a (non-working) backplane, and who knows what else.    Our expectation of profits from this joint project (which was the only purpose of investing, to generate bitcoins) was clearly dependent entirely on AMT.  If AMT was hosting, it would be almost exactly on point with Howey, but even in the absence of hosting it seems a compelling idea.

Just a thought for those of you who have already gone the warpath route.  I am still waiting for a response from AMT before I decide to proceed with more aggressive actions.

... from A Dance with Dragons

Sorry couldn't resist a little Friday afternoon levity.

For me this is really simple:

(1) AMT provides working miners at 1.2 Th/s each that are 1 w/gh/s or less per specification, AND provides the promised compensation under their MPP

OR

(2) AMT is liquidates its assets in some way and goes out of business, giving us whatever they have in assets in cash or kind (pro rata based on how much each of us paid)

Under option #2, they have to account for what happened to the $6 million or so that we paid so we know there was no fraud. In bankruptcy, they will have to do that anyway so if they are headed that direction and giving us less than we are due, we need to understand what happened, where the money went, where the assets are and how they are being distributed to us.  If I knew that they were giving us everything they could, and that no fraud (e.g., no transfers to shareholders, no bonus payments, no mysterious missing bitcoin, etc.) then I would give Josh credit for being open and honest and allow this to be written off as a huge mistake and loss.

There is no option 3 for AMT.

I have reached a point personally where all I want is working hardware and the appropriate compensation for my hassles so I can move on past this insane drama they seem intent on keeping going. I am getting tired of wondering what the next move will be. I offered to help freely as I normally charge alot and I am sure they cant afford me as it is. But mainly to help get things rolling so that people can get their hardware. But it does not appear despite their words that they have intentions of making things right. Just the minimum to avoid prosecution.

Talk is cheap at this point. Only thing now that will matter are proper actions. I am pissed cause I went to pick up the hardware...I did originally ask to test it at the office...I did not get to go in, plug it in and test it. I get the impression he knew there could be flaws which is why I wound up meeting him at a bar and getting it out of a truck (FYI my GPS app documents my trips for tax purposes and this was one of those business trips I can write off). I have thorough records of the trip I took down there in terms of locations among other records I keep. But I went to a bar, Great American Pub in Narberth. This should be pretty specific info.

Again with all the hassles we are going through and the support we gave them at one point they basically have consistently insulted our intelligence and dignity by consistently making promises and assurances they have not kept once. Now they just signed a design deal with technobit (2 weeks ago only with all these issues, wtf?) So the big question is how long will be the wait this time? and what do we get for our troubles? The hosting option is not something I imagine anyone wants. Because you already have proven as a company you cannot be trusted. We want something concrete. Working miners with a warranty plan or some kind of WRITTEN guarantee against failure. Some sort of support plan should they become insolvent (think how Saturn passed the support over to Pontiac). The hardware at 1.2Ths we have already lost a considerable amount of money as it is because of this on alot of levels. What is AMT going to do to make this right?