Topic: #NO2X - JOIN THE WAR! - page 4. (Read 5281 times)

I'm partial to the idea that miners are part of the community, and I think that some of the major miners (like Bitfury, F2Pool) are fairly in touch with the userbase and are apparently concerned about what they want. I don't feel the same sense of community from miners like Bitmain. Jihan Wu spends his time/energy attacking Core and pumping Bitcoin Cash -- the next batch of miners is only payable in Bitcoin Cash. What's that about?

Buying mining equipment is supposed to be a way to invest in BTC while supporting the network; it shouldn't be an avenue to get people to prop up the BCH price for Bitmain.

Alright, I used to give you the benefit of the doubt even though others were insisting that I do not in the past. I was mistaken about you. Please leave this thread in peace now, thanks. Even monkeys have managed to develop better methods and practices than libtards did.

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If you are from the UK, then I'm less surprised by your behavior though. Disclaimer: You've posted no arguments other than "you're wrong, and "we" i.e. I think I'm right". Unless you're also on a payroll, wake up already.

Here's what Bitcoin does not need (for the third time, no less, so I might try some extra emphasis).


You can have your plush toy badger with all the health and safety warnings and no sharp edges.  I'll have the rabid honey badger that rips your damn face off if the inclination strikes.  Cry harder about your boogeymen, Bitcoin doesn't care.  



Waaaagh!  Hijackers!  Waaaagh!  Hostile Takeovers!  Waaaagh!  Sacking Developers!

Could any of you protectionist fascists sound any more juvenile?  How many more times?  There can be no takeover unless you give these corporations your private keys or your preferred dev team give them control of the repo.  Assuming you and the devs aren't dumb enough to do that, you can't have any decisions made for you.  You are in total control of your respective funds and/or repositories.  But you don't have total control over what any of the other network participants do, so quit trying.



Yes, they didn't listen and they're just including SegWit for shits and giggles.  If they weren't listening, they wouldn't have included SegWit at all.  What are you even on about?



Again with the what?  The miners are forking away.  Doesn't mean they're gone for good.  The only way you're getting rid of them permanently is with the nuclear option of an algo change.  You're perfectly free to pursue that avenue if you want.



This forum isn't capable of a peaceful Bitcoin.  

It's a 24/7/365 witch-hunt with the assclowns on this site.  They can't help themselves.



And I commend the devs on maintaining a mostly neutral stance despite the slanging match encompassing them.  This is purely about the 24/7/365 witch-hunt assclowns vs the so-called BigBlockers idiocy.  It's all just posturing at the end of the day.  Only the numbers matter.  And again, Bitcoin will be fine.

Nope, a very small minority that thought big blocks were important, yet were proven wrong by their failed shitcoin called Bcash, are rooting for Segwit2x. Anyone sensible, educated, and non-greedy && malicious is staying with the one, true, Bitcoin. Keep drinking your kool-aid, paid baboon.

Yawn - this I accept and seems all big ones and many others have followed this lonesome advice much earlier.

The same reason for which the corporate baboons, i.e. attackers attempt to hijack the name Bitcoin for their own terms. Users with actual knowledge about the system, should educate and spread the use of Bitcoin clients not "cancer altcoin disguised as Bitcoin" clients.

The latter is a lie and you are being fed kool-aid. Pretty much anyone who understands Segwit, which does not include Ver, Jihan, Wright, Oliver, Thomas, etc., embraces Segwit. Jihan has been paying for anti-Segwit propaganda in China a few months ago. Wake up.

"Supposedly" is the wrong wording unless you're delusional. Bonus: That's a false generalization fallacy right there.

False. You can fork away the current miners.

It was fine until we got Anderesen'd, Hearnia'd. Now only two people are left in the way of a peaceful Bitcoin.

Alright; you need to be an idiot to stand by (or even condone) while malicious actors deceive individuals, cause damage to said individuals, and then proceed label people who fights against such malevolent action non cypherpunk. Then again, Ver has an army of shills in his company. You never know who you're talking to.

No. Bitcoin Core, as a group of independent individuals has done nothing wrong. Yet Garzik, Ver, Jihan keep attacking them and condoning attacks on them.

Wrong. We need the idiots out of the way. They can fork into an altcoin, without stealing the name Bitcoin and we'd be much better off.

Go away already.

Why should this "power" include telling other people what software they can or can't run?  If users could do that (and I'm glad they can't) THEN the system has failed.  Users will always have the freedom to decide which chain they wish to transact on.  Why isn't that enough for you?  Why do you want to dictate terms to people who don't owe you a damn thing?



Your use of the word "listening" here distinctly implies not just "hearing" what the community and developers are saying, but also "obeying".  Hence slave.  They listened.  They just didn't agree.  That's allowed.  Deal with it.  Either the alignment of incentives will prove them wrong to disagree, or it won't.  Whichever it turns out to be, most of those miners you currently disagree with will, most likely, eventually be back on the same chain as the majority of users, because the most profitable chain to mine will be the one most people transact on.  And you'll still, most likely, be complaining about how terrible they all supposedly are, despite the fact there's nothing you can do to prevent their involvement.  And even if you could prevent their involvement, you'd have to sacrifice one of Bitcoin's primary tenets of permisionlessness in order to do so.  It's far simpler just to let them get on with whatever the hell they want to do.  You can still run whatever code you want.  Beyond that, you're as impotent as everyone else.



Until 5 minutes pass and they find another boogeyman to plead for someone in authority to "save" us from.  Quite a lot of people are morons in that regard.  It's all getting a bit too overprotective and interfering lately.  Like people who whine about forks having the name "Bitcoin" in them because it might confuse people, or those who would gladly prefer to restrict freedom in the name of supposed security.  Hardly the cypherpunk values Bitcoin was founded upon.



This is most of the people in the thread.  You are all Helen Lovejoy.  Stop it.



I'm not here saying any "side" has any kind of moral high ground.  Both have done stupid, petty crap.  Neither comes out of this looking good.  Again, it takes two to tango, stop pretending any "side" is innocent here.  So going forward, we need to stop having "sides".  We need to stop the polarising fragmentation, the tribalism, the pointless bickering and the incessant baseless character assassinations.

I'm confident Bitcoin will emerge stronger after all this drama blows over and will set a precedent that all the cypherpussies on this board and elsewhere were utterly wasting their time and blood pressure fretting over issues of "control" and "power" in vain.  People will run the code they want to run and the network will move forward accordingly.

Classic signature spam with zero value. Go spam in some other place.

This is exactly what happen when bitcoin was about to be fork. So many threatening information from people that claim to know about segwit with blockchain terminologies that got an ordinary person that do not have indept knowledge about blockchain confused. Those information causes panic but I think no matter what some people that sounds like expertise say the masses will not be afraid this time. I do not see any cause for war.

There's nothing wrong with pointing on the current situation, which is that most miners don't represent the community. However, the problem is mainly due to most miners = Jihad Wu.

Because the most *power* in Bitcoin have the users, otherwise the system has failed.

Listening to the community and developers has nothing to do with being a slave.

Wrong. Quite a lot of people would be extremely satisfied if Jihan completely left.

You haven't been reading the other "side" lately, have you? Stop preaching bs.

How much "skin" someone has in the game has absolutely nothing to do with whether they're evil or not. With the case of Roger Ver and Jihan, both have become so malicious that is it ridiculous. Bitcoin does not need a rushed, let alone contentious, and dangerous hard fork, which is coded by an amateur such as Garzik, anytime soon.

You just cannot admit that you've not the same strong position than others with more skin in the game than littly you. So it is very easy to rant against these but not very clever to do in public and let many show how rotten your charachter is deep inside. You do not provide / support any good solution for keeping the community together for many years now. Now we can all see what issues we got with that splitting.

What might help is if people stopped putting this bizarre invisible barrier between miners and "the community".  Why aren't miners part of the community?  Why are they always this separate entity who supposedly has to follow obediently and silently?  It's baffling that most of the people here simultaneously bitch about miners having too much power, whilst in the same breath trying to relegate them to slave status.  Everyone wants to rely on their hashpower, but no one wants them to have any freedom.  It's unrealistic.

I think, if we're genuinely going to be a community, we need to drop this ridiculous "us and them" mentality.  Whatever happens after the November fork, there has to be more cohesion and cooperation between the various network participants, because the silly games we're playing at the moment (where every single disagreement is automatically the fault of miners despite it taking two to sides to have a disagreement), clearly don't work.  If we don't find some sort of equilibrium, it's just going to be fork after fork for the foreseeable future.

If you don't want the miners to be your enemy, it might be an idea to stop treating them like one.

"Your Bitcoin"? You're showing signs of shill delusion again.

Anyone knowledgeable enough would simply see the stupidity of that question. Then again, big blockists aren't famous for their intellect nor knowledge.

No. I shall publicly scrutinize both Bitmain, Jihan, Ver & co. for the cartel like behavior. They are the true scum of Bitcoin.

When you go to logic, what does this tell you of your bitcoin than ?  You cannot trust any TX any more since it's done by 'the evil' all over ?

So pls stop supporting this yours evil bitcoin any more and give up.

There is nothing to doubt. There is time to pull out, and that's a fact.

His fall would be very beneficial to Bitcoin, just FYI. Without someone like him, we wouldn't even be here. He's stupid enough to realize that agencies such as NSA have infiltrated both sides (especially his) and are manipulating him, as his technical knowledge is very shallow.

It's hard to tell at this time, but I am slightly convinced that they are not.

I also think that Roger's manchild nature is probably keeping him from listening to good legal counsel on this. If Bitcoin.com really ignores the legacy chain, changes the "BTC" ticker to an altcoin, and pawns these off on buyers / wallet users, Roger is in for a world of hurt when the lawsuits start rolling in. Bitcoin.com is brokering the exchange of goods and as a custodian, there are certain duties of care that must be taken from a legal perspective.


Bixin's policy towards Bitcoin Cash suggests that they are not a Bitmain proxy. But I suppose that could be a red herring.

But the Segwit2x agreement didn't involve users/the community. It just involved a bunch of VC-backed companies, many who have business models that are threatened by transaction fees replacing block subsidy. They'd prefer to increase the costs to run nodes and enter the mining sector -- due to propagation/bandwidth costs -- in order to reduce transactions costs. That way, transaction fees won't eat up all of their revenue.

Now, I'm sympathetic to that from their business perspective, but not to the point where it should affect my money. They should adapt to Bitcoin, not the other way around.


That wasn't up to the community. Only miners had any say at that point.

Doubt it.



Very important post from core; https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2017-10-09-segwit2x-safety

You shouldn't listen to nor take anything that Roger Ver says seriously. He's a spoiled manchild. He recently said that Bitcoin Cash is the true Bitcoin, then change his statement to 2x a few days after. His statements are worthless, nor is he or this band of suits able to define Bitcoin.

That does not necessarily have to imply that they are a Bitmain proxy (and I sure hope that they are not). There's still time for them to pull out of the agreement.