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Topic: NPR's Border Fact Check - page 5. (Read 1500 times)

full member
Activity: 952
Merit: 175
@cryptocommies
December 03, 2018, 11:50:40 PM
#31
Its not a valid response to just classify things as "postmodernist" but that is almost all you do.  Even if it was postmodernist, you haven't addressed any of the questions or facts put forward.  You haven't even explained how its postmodernist.  

Perhaps its because you are afraid of your own answers to the questions that have been put forward.  Perhaps answering the questions would force you into a contradiction.  

The irony of someone who is so paranoid about falling under authoritarian rule calling for someone be locked up for asking questions is golden.  I guess you are an authoritarian as long as you get to be the dictator.

Harriet Tubman's underground railroad was illegal, Nicholas Winton's smuggling of Jewish children during the Holocaust was illegal,  Jim crow sit ins were illegal.  Might is not right and sometimes the best thing to do is illegal and the law itself is unjust.  

Additionally, danger is measurable.  You don't just get to say my positions are dangerous when its clear that the most dangerous options would be for these people to stay stranded in northern Mexico or return home.  Even with the teargas and concentration camps, pushing the US is the option that gives them the best opportunity to achieve safety and that is what is driving this entire process.  

It is all I do when all you do is post relativist deconstructivist bullshit straight out of Critical Theory. "Postmodernist mind mush" isn't an insult, it is an observation of the fact that you repeatedly use the Hegelian dialectic to argue contradictory views of your ideology in order to create a relativist subjectivity that on a Sophistic level seems to be valid, but upon closer critical examination is nothing but 100% horse shit right out of your imagination.

You CONSTANTLY contradict yourself and you have the nerve to accuse me of being afraid of examining the truth because I might find conflict? Yeah, those loons being afraid of authoritarian rule! Who in their right mind would think active prevention of ideologies that spawn authoritarianism is worth while? Never in history has this ideology lead to genocide! Quite paranoid. Maybe instead we should go out and punch some Nazis?

I didn't call for you to be locked up. I was telling you regardless of how you justify your bullshit in your mind, you are still actively advocating for conditions that would destroy the nation, and as a result I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up in a cage over it if you are taking any actions in that direction.
The problem is not with classifying things but classifying things without any reasoning.  You just say everything is postmodernist (maybe it is?) but you give no reasoning for how its postmodernist or what is wrong with it in the particular context.  You say I contradict myself all the time but instead of pointing out the contradictions, you just say its "straight outta critical theory" and leave it at that.

And maybe you don't want to break down my positions.  Thats fine.  You still haven't answered any of my questions about your position in this thread. 
There is a difference between civil disobedience and ignoring laws that endanger others. You wanna risk jail time to protest that is on you. You don't get to trade OTHER PEOPLE'S security for your cause. Who's safety? At what cost? Who pays that cost? You certainly fucking aren't but you have no problem putting that burden on everyone else right? It is very generous of you to spend other people's money and give away their safety. You are quite a saint. Just like Harriet Tubman.


No I am actually arguing for the opposite of what you stated in bold.   Not only am I against funding a wall that would jeopardize the safety of these people, I am actually advocating for the abolishment of ICE which would save a lot of money.  It seems you are the one arguing we spend money to send these people back to very dangerous conditions. 

Quote
What's driving this entire process is the Leftist agitators and funding sources that created this entire problem, and now seems to have left these poor people to their own devices at the border's edge. I think you  should go take care of them, and pay their way back home.
The violence in Honduras is what is driving this entire process.  Do you think leftist agitators destabilized these countries?  I donate to border angels.  https://www.borderangels.org/
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
December 03, 2018, 04:55:30 PM
#30
....the most dangerous options would be for these people to stay stranded in northern Mexico or return home.  Even with the teargas and concentration camps, pushing the US is the option that gives them the best opportunity to achieve safety and that is what is driving this entire process. 

What's driving this entire process is the Leftist agitators and funding sources that created this entire problem, and now seems to have left these poor people to their own devices at the border's edge. I think you  should go take care of them, and pay their way back home.

....

I didn't call for you to be locked up. ....

Only, I suspect, because Hillary's cell is looking like it might have a full house.



Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
December 03, 2018, 11:51:10 AM
#29
Its not a valid response to just classify things as "postmodernist" but that is almost all you do.  Even if it was postmodernist, you haven't addressed any of the questions or facts put forward.  You haven't even explained how its postmodernist.  

Perhaps its because you are afraid of your own answers to the questions that have been put forward.  Perhaps answering the questions would force you into a contradiction.  

The irony of someone who is so paranoid about falling under authoritarian rule calling for someone be locked up for asking questions is golden.  I guess you are an authoritarian as long as you get to be the dictator.

Harriet Tubman's underground railroad was illegal, Nicholas Winton's smuggling of Jewish children during the Holocaust was illegal,  Jim crow sit ins were illegal.  Might is not right and sometimes the best thing to do is illegal and the law itself is unjust.  

Additionally, danger is measurable.  You don't just get to say my positions are dangerous when its clear that the most dangerous options would be for these people to stay stranded in northern Mexico or return home.  Even with the teargas and concentration camps, pushing the US is the option that gives them the best opportunity to achieve safety and that is what is driving this entire process.  

It is all I do when all you do is post relativist deconstructivist bullshit straight out of Critical Theory. "Postmodernist mind mush" isn't an insult, it is an observation of the fact that you repeatedly use the Hegelian dialectic to argue contradictory views of your ideology in order to create a relativist subjectivity that on a Sophistic level seems to be valid, but upon closer critical examination is nothing but 100% horse shit right out of your imagination.

You CONSTANTLY contradict yourself and you have the nerve to accuse me of being afraid of examining the truth because I might find conflict? Yeah, those loons being afraid of authoritarian rule! Who in their right mind would think active prevention of ideologies that spawn authoritarianism is worth while? Never in history has this ideology lead to genocide! Quite paranoid. Maybe instead we should go out and punch some Nazis?

I didn't call for you to be locked up. I was telling you regardless of how you justify your bullshit in your mind, you are still actively advocating for conditions that would destroy the nation, and as a result I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up in a cage over it if you are taking any actions in that direction.

There is a difference between civil disobedience and ignoring laws that endanger others. You wanna risk jail time to protest that is on you. You don't get to trade OTHER PEOPLE'S security for your cause. Who's safety? At what cost? Who pays that cost? You certainly fucking aren't but you have no problem putting that burden on everyone else right? It is very generous of you to spend other people's money and give away their safety. You are quite a saint. Just like Harriet Tubman.

full member
Activity: 952
Merit: 175
@cryptocommies
December 03, 2018, 11:03:32 AM
#28
Its not a valid response to just classify things as "postmodernist" but that is almost all you do.  Even if it was postmodernist, you haven't addressed any of the questions or facts put forward.  You haven't even explained how its postmodernist.  

Perhaps its because you are afraid of your own answers to the questions that have been put forward.  Perhaps answering the questions would force you into a contradiction.  

The irony of someone who is so paranoid about falling under authoritarian rule calling for someone be locked up for asking questions is golden.  I guess you are an authoritarian as long as you get to be the dictator.

Harriet Tubman's underground railroad was illegal, Nicholas Winton's smuggling of Jewish children during the Holocaust was illegal,  Jim crow sit ins were illegal.  Might is not right and sometimes the best thing to do is illegal and the law itself is unjust.  

Additionally, danger is measurable.  You don't just get to say my positions are dangerous when its clear that the most dangerous options would be for these people to stay stranded in northern Mexico or return home.  Even with the teargas and concentration camps, pushing the US is the option that gives them the best opportunity to achieve safety and that is what is driving this entire process. 
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
December 03, 2018, 02:53:15 AM
#27
No, the totalitarianism comes after you get control. Enforcing ones borders is one of the oldest recognized rights of a sovereign nation. This is the case because without controlling for this factor nations have the real potential to fall. Purposely attempting to collapse the nation with uncontrolled immigration is treason, not protest. It doesn't matter how ignorant you are of the reality of the results of your actions.
The problem with that is how do we figure out when to start recognizing these old rights of sovereign nations? Today? Last week? 2010? 2003? 2001? 1991? 1989? 1973? 1971? 1967? 1953? 1950? 1492?

Ah yes, the ever refreshing argument of the Socialist. We are just too advanced for those old stale ancient ways!

We aren't talking about trading women for goats here. Border controls are just as important as they ever were. The question is when did you stop recognizing these rights?
I've never thought about how borders are recognized because its just another make believe human construct that kills poor people but doesn't affect me at all.  I have border privilege until I try to enter a country where Americans are not automatically allowed.    I am not a government so I am asking this question from the perspective of my government.  I'm simply asking when should we start recognizing borders?  Since borders are old, do we go back to ancient borders?  I am not asking rhetorically, I am literally asking when you think we should have started recognizing borders because apparently if we don't start now, we won't have the same country and if we go back far enough, we won't have the same country either.  

Are you talking about restoring the original borders of this land?
https://native-land.ca/
It seems complicated but I'm not rejecting it because I have an open mind.  I'm just curious about how that would work because so many of them overlap.  

More postmodernist mind mush. You are an enemy of the nation and I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up in a cell. It doesn't really matter how you rationalize irresponsible, criminal, and dangerous activities, they are still irresponsible, criminal, and dangerous.
full member
Activity: 952
Merit: 175
@cryptocommies
December 02, 2018, 11:41:34 PM
#26
No, the totalitarianism comes after you get control. Enforcing ones borders is one of the oldest recognized rights of a sovereign nation. This is the case because without controlling for this factor nations have the real potential to fall. Purposely attempting to collapse the nation with uncontrolled immigration is treason, not protest. It doesn't matter how ignorant you are of the reality of the results of your actions.
The problem with that is how do we figure out when to start recognizing these old rights of sovereign nations? Today? Last week? 2010? 2003? 2001? 1991? 1989? 1973? 1971? 1967? 1953? 1950? 1492?

Ah yes, the ever refreshing argument of the Socialist. We are just too advanced for those old stale ancient ways!

We aren't talking about trading women for goats here. Border controls are just as important as they ever were. The question is when did you stop recognizing these rights?
I've never thought about how borders are recognized because its just another make believe human construct that kills poor people but doesn't affect me at all.  I have border privilege until I try to enter a country where Americans are not automatically allowed.    I am not a government so I am asking this question from the perspective of my government.  I'm simply asking when should we start recognizing borders?  Since borders are old, do we go back to ancient borders?  I am not asking rhetorically, I am literally asking when you think we should have started recognizing borders because apparently if we don't start now, we won't have the same country and if we go back far enough, we won't have the same country either.  

Are you talking about restoring the original borders of this land?
https://native-land.ca/
It seems complicated but I'm not rejecting it because I have an open mind.  I'm just curious about how that would work because so many of them overlap.  
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
December 02, 2018, 04:15:16 PM
#25
No, the totalitarianism comes after you get control. Enforcing ones borders is one of the oldest recognized rights of a sovereign nation. This is the case because without controlling for this factor nations have the real potential to fall. Purposely attempting to collapse the nation with uncontrolled immigration is treason, not protest. It doesn't matter how ignorant you are of the reality of the results of your actions.
The problem with that is how do we figure out when to start recognizing these old rights of sovereign nations? Today? Last week? 2010? 2003? 2001? 1991? 1989? 1973? 1971? 1967? 1953? 1950? 1492?

Ah yes, the ever refreshing argument of the Socialist. We are just too advanced for those old stale ancient ways!

We aren't talking about trading women for goats here. Border controls are just as important as they ever were. The question is when did you stop recognizing these rights?
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
December 02, 2018, 04:05:32 PM
#24
Looks like the Fake Caravan hasn't turned out too well.

Manufacture a Caravan Human Rights Crisis, What if it Boomerangs on You?

https://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2018/12/caravan-crisis-boomeranged-latin-american-left/
full member
Activity: 952
Merit: 175
@cryptocommies
December 02, 2018, 02:38:45 PM
#23
I'm pretty sure you have the definition of totalitarianism completely backwards.  Unjust laws need to be broken and challenged constantly until they are moot.  This is called active protest and its been the most effective way for people to overcome totalitarian tendencies.

No, the totalitarianism comes after you get control. Enforcing ones borders is one of the oldest recognized rights of a sovereign nation. This is the case because without controlling for this factor nations have the real potential to fall. Purposely attempting to collapse the nation with uncontrolled immigration is treason, not protest. It doesn't matter how ignorant you are of the reality of the results of your actions.
The problem with that is how do we figure out when to start recognizing these old rights of sovereign nations? Today? Last week? 2010? 2003? 2001? 1991? 1989? 1973? 1971? 1967? 1953? 1950? 1492?
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
December 02, 2018, 07:24:15 AM
#22
I'm pretty sure you have the definition of totalitarianism completely backwards.  Unjust laws need to be broken and challenged constantly until they are moot.  This is called active protest and its been the most effective way for people to overcome totalitarian tendencies.

No, the totalitarianism comes after you get control. Enforcing ones borders is one of the oldest recognized rights of a sovereign nation. This is the case because without controlling for this factor nations have the real potential to fall. Purposely attempting to collapse the nation with uncontrolled immigration is treason, not protest. It doesn't matter how ignorant you are of the reality of the results of your actions.
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
November 30, 2018, 05:48:22 PM
#21
....
I'm pretty sure you have the definition of totalitarianism completely backwards.  Unjust laws need to be broken and challenged constantly until they are moot.  This is called active protest and its been the most effective way for people to overcome totalitarian tendencies.  
You should go on down there and stick your face in that tear gas and shield a couple of them from it. I hear the criminal count in that crowd is up to 600+, but if you are careful you probably won't get knifed in the back. Might lose a wallet, but so what? You can cross back in illegal with them and gain first hand experience with Tijuana.

Please just do it and report back on what they think of your communist schemes. No, maybe you should stay 100% quiet about those crazy ideas. If you want to make it back....

This is an interesting article.

TOP 5 MEDIA LIES ON THE MIGRANT CARAVAN

https://pjmedia.com/trending/top-five-media-lies-on-the-migrant-caravan/

But they don't get to the Big Lie, which is that it's a spontaneous surge of people wanting a better life.

Actually it's a purposeful anti-American, anti-Trump scheme funded and deployed by enemies.
full member
Activity: 952
Merit: 175
@cryptocommies
November 30, 2018, 05:18:13 AM
#20
No fact check is needed for the pictures that show children and mothers being hit with tear gas.  Unthinkable crimes against humanity!

We don't accept your borders to begin with and hardly accept the concept of borders overall but we are willing to play along (for now) just for the sake of a peaceful, functioning society.  As compromise, we demand that the human right of freedom of movement be granted.  You have to allow people to move freely from danger and seek asylum.  This is international law and will not be negotiated down at a time when it is needed the most.  The more Trump tries to restrict the rightful passage of humans seeking asylum, the more we will protest the border and seek to undermine the authority of the occupation.

I hate that it came this far but I will tell you, right now, there are comrades mobilizing and providing these people with the  resources and information necessary to access their right to seek asylum in the US.  I'm afraid they won't succeed. Might is right?

I see, so you openly admit you plan to subvert the government and rule of law to implement your ideology in spite of the fact that it has no popular mandate? You can't have a functioning society without borders any more than you can have a functional house without doors. It is good to know you are at least being honest about your totalitarian aspirations finally, though I think we all knew this for some time.

Mexico is a safe harbor nation, and has already offered these people asylum. Once you leave your nation, you are mandated to apply to the first safe harbor nation you enter for asylum. The law doesn't say you get to bounce from nation to nation and pick the country you would like best.

Asylum is supposed to be for emergency situations and is being abused in this case as cover for economic immigration. EVEN IF they had a legitimate reason to claim asylum, by those same international laws you evoke, they do not have a right to claim asylum in the US, and they CERTAINLY don't have a right to just rush the border.
I'm pretty sure you have the definition of totalitarianism completely backwards.  Unjust laws need to be broken and challenged constantly until they are moot.  This is called active protest and its been the most effective way for people to overcome totalitarian tendencies. 

legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
November 28, 2018, 12:33:49 PM
#19


I'd certainly hope the US military did NOT use tear gas, considering it's banned by the Geneva Convention.....

You mean, like Obama routinely used tear gas to repel border rushers?
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
November 30, 2018, 04:49:50 AM
#19
"HONDUREÑOS SON TORTURADOS POR DESPRECIAR LOS FRIJOLES Y LAS TORTILLAS"

(FYI, CC English translation works)

https://youtu.be/4BUD7Qqm2aM
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
November 28, 2018, 12:18:16 PM
#18

LOL try going down there to that border crossing. Go across and come back and then tell us about it...

How about you try eating a grande? Seems about the same level of advice. Rofl.

Fuck if I'm going to Mexico; it's a dangerous country. Fuck, even Cuba and Turkey are safer than Mexico.

I'd just like to see you on a subject you actually knew something about. Not going to Mexico, too dangerous....but you are going to tell everyone everything about it?

Tal vez una problema aqui?
full member
Activity: 574
Merit: 152
November 28, 2018, 11:19:24 AM
#17

LOL try going down there to that border crossing. Go across and come back and then tell us about it...

How about you try eating a grande? Seems about the same level of advice. Rofl.

Fuck if I'm going to Mexico; it's a dangerous country. Fuck, even Cuba and Turkey are safer than Mexico.
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
November 28, 2018, 11:15:59 AM
#16
Quote
...
90,000 average crossers per day; most of them NOT seeking asylum; but you can only process 40-100 individuals per day for seeking asylum? What the actual fuck?

90k security checks average a day, but can only handle an additional 40-100 asylum checks?
....

LOL try going down there to that border crossing. Go across and come back and then tell us about it...
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
November 28, 2018, 10:22:53 AM
#15


I'm not really sure why the policy for asylum seekers really changed. It seemed to be pretty effective under Obama in keeping illegal immigration rather small and limited.

The policy hasn't changed, only the person who is now president.  When Obummer was POTUS you didn't have George Soros spending millions in attempt to thwart America's sovereignty.

I'm pretty sure the policy changed. I'm pretty sure it states that CLEARLY in the article.

Quote
The U.S. government has encouraged all asylum-seekers to go to ports of entry, rather than along the rest of the border. At the same time, authorities are limiting the volume of asylum-seekers allowed at ports of entry. The "competing directives" have created a backlog, OIG found, likely causing more migrants to enter the country illegally.

Obama deciding not to enforce the law is not the same thing as the law changing.


Mexico is a safe harbor nation, and has already offered these people asylum. Once you leave your nation, you are mandated to apply to the first safe harbor nation you enter for asylum. The law doesn't say you get to bounce from nation to nation and pick the country you would like best.

You're a fucking retard, the only fucking country that the US has a bilateral agreement with for safe third Country is the frozen wasteland above you...  You can't even get the name of the agreement right.

There is no such thing as a "safe harbour nation" in legal terms, your stupid argument has been tested and rejected by the courts countless times over the decades.  The law is crystal clear a person can enter mexico first and then enter the US and apply for Asylum, you being to retarded to understand it doesn't change the facts LOL.

Beginning as usual starting off with an insult and a personal attack, always a sign of a rational level headed individual. I didn't intend to even reference the agreement you are referencing, so I am not sure how I got it wrong. The words I used are perfectly logical and clearly deliver the message I intended to deliver. Actually the law is crystal clear, the USA first of all has ultimate authority deciding who may enter the country as a sovereign nation, and the authority of the executive branch over this is also very clear. Your entire argument consists of calling me a retard and claiming I was wrong about things I never even mentioned.

"Under international law, asylum seekers are encouraged to apply for relief or legal status in the first country available to them, but it is not an obligation.

Similarly under U.S. law. Central American migrants technically have no obligation to apply for asylum in Mexico, contrary to the president's tweet. However, it is often a factor considered by immigration judges in deciding whether or not to grant asylum or permanent resettlement. In other words, some immigration judges will reject asylum claims if a person had the practical ability to apply for asylum or another legal status before reaching the United States."

https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/trumps-asylum-restrictions-shift-migration-pressures-to-mexico

In summary, the asylum process was designed as a relief from immediate threats to ones life, most specifically due to government oppression. Living in a poor country with no infrastructure is not a valid claim for asylum. This in mind, judges who see that these people have demonstrated material evidence of applying for asylum in the US for economic reasons, not for reasons of immediate threat as demonstrated by passing through a third nation offering asylum to get here, are perfectly within the law rejecting these claims.
full member
Activity: 574
Merit: 152
November 28, 2018, 08:08:45 AM
#14
I'm not really sure why the policy for asylum seekers really changed. It seemed to be pretty effective under Obama in keeping illegal immigration rather small and limited.

The policy hasn't changed, only the person who is now president.  When Obummer was POTUS you didn't have George Soros spending millions in attempt to thwart America's sovereignty.

I'm pretty sure the policy changed. I'm pretty sure it states that CLEARLY in the article.

Quote
The U.S. government has encouraged all asylum-seekers to go to ports of entry, rather than along the rest of the border. At the same time, authorities are limiting the volume of asylum-seekers allowed at ports of entry. The "competing directives" have created a backlog, OIG found, likely causing more migrants to enter the country illegally.
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November 28, 2018, 07:39:49 AM
#13
I'm not really sure why the policy for asylum seekers really changed. It seemed to be pretty effective under Obama in keeping illegal immigration rather small and limited.

The policy hasn't changed, only the person who is now president.  When Obummer was POTUS you didn't have George Soros spending millions in attempt to thwart America's sovereignty.
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