Topic: NXT coin - A total scam? - page 20. (Read 49724 times)

I agree. This is something I didn't consider. Do you have any ideas on how that can be done without a few people gaming the system?

--- unless you manage to do it in such a way as to distribute it *WIDELY* right from the start.  Seriously, like to at least tens of thousands of people. Way more than you could ever get to answer a thread on this forum.

The concept I speak of is 100% PoS.  If you know of another crypto that did that before please point to where.  When you speak of market stability which coin are you comparing it to XBT.  You think XBT price market is stable?

Nxt concept is proven to work then any next clone / iteration will have the exact same distribution problem as any other valuable but limited resource.

What exactly is the Nxt concept? The only innovation claimed to have been implemented here, that isn't being tried by someone else, is a migration of code to Java. However, this is not much of an innovation, nor is it an improvement. Even the scam is not innovative. If the java source code, which to the best of my knowledge has not been released were worth anything, and I doubt that it is, then someone else could indeed copy it minus the 100% premining, and would be more likely to succeed. You don't have a market lead because you don't have a real market. Peercoin, which you copied, isn't premined.


There is no point in trying to do a fair distribution.  Even if you distribute it to every person evenly for free every person will value it differently and coins

The problem with premining isn't an issue of fairness, but of market stability. When an early adopter gets rich quick off a coin, and most of his net worth is concentrated in an extremely volatile asset. It serves his best interests to dump his coins, but no one knows when. Even the holder himself might not be able to predict when he needs money in a hurry. Thus the price depends upon the whims of a few isolated individuals whom no one else knows. This problem of concentration can be mitigated only with a long accumulation curve over time.

If Nxt concept is proven to work then any next clone / iteration will have the exact same distribution problem as any other valuable but limited resource.  Early adopters will reap bigger benefits then late adopters.  The other option is to have an auction similar to what Nxt did initially but then the price will rise to be roughly the same as Nxt and there will be no point and you might as well buy Nxt the original.  There is no point in trying to do a fair distribution.  Even if you distribute it to every person evenly for free every person will value it differently and coins will concentrate in the same big hands that want to be big hands.

As long as we entertain the idea that nothing is going to be "fair" while some people get some and others do not... 

I'd take all the non-coinbase transactions on the Bitcoin blockchain having at least one unspent txout,

Then take one unspent txout from each such transaction, take the pubkey, and add it to a list.

Then create an ex nihilo transaction in the genesis block of your new coin awarding an equal amount of the altcoin to each key - allowing people with bitcoin keys to use the same keys to spend their altcoin.

Wait a year for people who haven't lost the key to their bitcoin utxo's to claim their coins, and if they don't then delete those coins from the altcoin blockchain.

It would still be 'unfair' insofar as some would randomly get more than others and might favor early bitcoin adopters, but it would be 'fair-er' in that the coins would be spread out to a large number of holders and in that no matter how much or how little bitcoin you have you get "approximately" the same amount of the new coin -- ie, it depends on number of utxo's not amount in coins.

Thank you for your good will wishes. 1 question how would you have distributed all the coins fairly?

OK. Sorry guys, looks like my argument was beaten.

PS: Let's wait for 3rd of Jan then.

What do you mean not the one released in 2009? Bitcoin v0.1 (first version available to the public at least) was released in January 2009 along with the source.

This was the release announcement Satoshi made on a mailing list: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg10152.html

I'm not aware of any earlier versions, and if there was one, it wasn't released publicly.

Shoot me an email address, or get me access to the bitcoin wiki, and I will.

I was always thinking that source code of Bitcoin wasn't available to ordinary people from day 1. Now I suspect I was wrong, could u prove me wrong? Also I'd like to see the very 1st version of the source code to make sure it's not the one released in 2009.

That's not what I meant.  In fact, I like the ideas behind Nxt.  But I just won't tolerate people lying about Satoshi and how he developed Bitcoin -- he did NOT hold it closed-source until after release, as claimed.

I've been considering buying some NXT, because I believe in the proof-of-stake model and I can see how it is pretty easy to develop the other mentioned features on top of it.  Also because the value would jump dramatically after release if the source code turns out to be okay. But I absolutely cannot run the client, because it has these four major strokes against it....

First, it's closed-source.  Closed-source, in itself, doesn't scream 'scam.'  But closed-source means you have to trust the developer, or trust people who've audited the code, because you can't trust source code you can't see.

Second, the developer is anonymous.  Anonymous developer, in itself, doesn't scream 'scam.'  But it means you have to trust the source code, or people who've audited the code, because you can't trust a developer whom you can't serve a subpeona on.

Third, the people who've audited the code have no history, no reputation, no known qualifications.  That in itself doesn't scream 'scam', but it means you have to trust the developer or trust the source code, because you can't trust auditors whom you don't know to be qualified.

Fourth, it's financial software.  Financial software in itself doesn't scream 'scam' but it does mean you absolutely cannot run it without completely trusting it because if you do otherwise then sooner or later a scam will take your entire life savings and/or livelihood.

So, if I acquire Nxt prior to the source code being released and audited by people I have reasons to trust, it's going to be on a 'burner box' -- install the OS, put it on its own subnet with no connections to other local machines, run the software long enough to generate a key, do the transfer,  and then save the wallet to a USB key marked 'DANGEROUS' with red nail polish, so you won't ever put it into anything except another 'burner box'.  Then shut it down and wipe the hard drive. It makes it kind of a pain in the ass to deal with.

Oh, maybe I'm wrong. Publish the most earliest source plz.

That'll be a little hard to do without the source code being released first, ya? Don't you think someone would have done it by now if it were that easy? I agree the premine situation wasn't perfect but at least it was fair and open to the community.

Just think as nxt as what it atm beta. Source code out jan 3rd 2014 then you can say what you like. Atm ppl are very interested in it hence the buying and selling so early

Sorry, this is just wrong.  I have an archive of the Bitcoin source from November 2008 -- IE, from 3 months before it went live.  And during that 3 months, Satoshi was working on it *with* the assistance of several serious cryptographers. Updates of the code were available every day.  

You can't just lie like that.

I bought $6 worth of nxt. Feel really, really weird about it.

That my friend is how to go about telling ppl your thoughts. U didnt instantly shout scam from the roof tops like other that are unsure of this new tech. You will be pleased to know that the core source code will be released on the 3rd january 2014 hope to see u in the community.  Please do follow the official nxt thread updated info for all the answers you require

I found the lack of available source code at launch to be extremely suspect. That it isn't based on Bitcoin is all the more reason for the devs to be transparent as possible. Who cares if someone clones it - there were plenty of clones released when Bitcoin was still relatively small and that didn't hurt it.

At any rate, I find NXT intriguing but I'm not buying any until the source is released.