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Topic: [NXT] Decentralized Asset Exchange Discussion Thread - page 18. (Read 31346 times)

legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
I´ve created a new asset without error message, but it still doesn´t show up in the list (Asset name: HODL)
Any ideas?

Incorrect time?

In terms of..? Where to check? What to check?
Does a user really have to check the system time (if I am right) before issueing an asset? For me, this is a bug. am I wrong?

Make sure that ur time is synced. It's not a bug, it's a countermuasure against time-travel attacks.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
I´ve created a new asset without error message, but it still doesn´t show up in the list (Asset name: HODL)
Any ideas?

Incorrect time?

In terms of..? Where to check? What to check?
Does a user really have to check the system time (if I am right) before issueing an asset? For me, this is a bug. am I wrong?
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
I´ve created a new asset without error message, but it still doesn´t show up in the list (Asset name: HODL)
Any ideas?

Incorrect time?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
I´ve created a new asset without error message, but it still doesn´t show up in the list (Asset name: HODL)
Any ideas?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
18011833952203456566

can I have some? thx

20k sent, spread the testLove.

thanks!
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10

In my mind I have another approach for trust, not using any rating system, using some "permanent account" to act like escrow.

1. Jon wants to sell "asset" for Sue for 100NXT
2. Jon push "sell", asset goes to "permanent account"
3. Sue push "buy", 100 NXT goes to "permanent account"
4. If both things arrived to "permanent account" then this account sends 100 NXT to Joe and "asset" to Sue.

"Permanent account" is only for naming, can't find better description for now Smiley Does it sound stupid? Smiley

Yes, but how would you implement this for real world items.  When Jon pushes "Sell" he can't send 10 ounces of bullion through the internet, for example.  This could be a decent way to send/recieve other cryptocurrecies, but who has the access to the escrow account in order to send the received BTC when Sue pushes "Buy", for example?  It could be done for some things like other cryptos, but how do you make it p2p and secure?  Real world commodity trade may be difficult with this approach.

OK, this questions are for devs Smiley That was only conception.

Just to be certain, I did not mean "yes" in my post "Does this sound stupid?"  >_<

Its a decent idea, but there is an issue in who controls the asset accounts.  Unless I'm missing something, the only way we can send from the "permanent account" is if the account is controlled by a trusted escrow.  It's doable, but makes it less decentralized.

What might be interesting is to implement escrow right into the asset exchange, so that anyone can have a rated escrow account as well.  For example:

1. Jon wants to sell "asset" for Sue for 100NXT but has little or no rating.
2. Jon push "sell", and sends the asset to a linked and highly rated escrow account
3. Sue pushes "buy", 100 NXT goes to the linked and highly rated escrows account
4. If both things arrived to account then this account sends the 100 NXT to Joe and asset to Sue.
5. Upon successful transaction, the escrow, Jon and Sue all +1 each other for a good trade, thus developing rep for Jon, Sue, and the escrow.

Just an idea, still hard to implement the real world commodity part of the escrow, and maybe that would complicate it too much, but just an idea.  Still, I think ratings of some sort could establish trust.  As far as commodities go though, I think a system to easily implement dividends may prove useful, but I wonder the legal implications of such a thing.  But a full peer-to-peer trading platform would be excellent.


Edit: pardon me, I've derailed the thread to suggestions ... back to asset exchange testing.

This is a pretty amazing idea. Combining the ratings/alias concept with the idea of escrow makes for sort of a decentralized escrow service ability. Any NXT user could decide to become an escrow agent for both ratings and small transaction fees perhaps. Those with higher ratings could charge slighly higher fees and handle bigger ticket transactions. You could also create decentralized insurance in this way as well. Someone with a lot of NXT (or whatever) could insure assets, even crypto-coins and charge a fee for the service.

Powerful stuff.
full member
Activity: 236
Merit: 100
here is a workable scenario:

1. bter,dgex,cryptsy, issue asset like :BTC, LTC, Dogecoin etc
   bter 10,000 btc
   dgex 10,000 ltc
   cryptsy 20,000,000 Dogecoin
( but nobody knows they have how many coin,if these coin can be  backed by Nxt, then no problem
    if issue 1BTC(token) , 20,000 nxt have been locked.

2. someone wants to sell nxt for btc etc
   place bit order, if match the ask order, then btc(token) is transfered to receiver account,nxt to seller account
3. more and more can place ask order with btc, etc.

1. because bter,dgex,btc-e are reputable, so you can trust them
  you can deposit your btc,ltc for btc token.
  or can withdrawl them.
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
I don't really come from outer space.
So, to all the brainiacs and big idea people out there --

How can aliases work in tandem with AE?

Let's say you've reserved a desirable alias 'foo'.

You issue 'foo' asset on AE.

Now what?

It's not currently possible to transfer an alias, if I understand your question.

Alias transfer could be added in the future.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
18011833952203456566

can I have some? thx

20k sent, spread the testLove.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Any plan to add some of the core functionality of crowd funding? Ill give an example of what i mean.
...

Crowdfunding solves this by having a central authority collect promises to pay and refrains from charge anyone anything UNLESS the total amount of funding required to fund the project is raised.

The importance of this sort of functionality can not be overstated and it could definitely be built in to the protocol if it isnt already.

I'm very interested in this too, as well as other funding models. But I don't think it needs to be built into the protocol, could be done through service providers who can explore and tweak different models.

EDIT: And e.g. Kickstarter helps folks see who contributed to which tier, how many of each tier rewards are left, so that they know who to send which rewards too. Stuff like this should be handled outside the protocol.
member
Activity: 95
Merit: 10
That guy, you know, with the face
So, to all the brainiacs and big idea people out there --

How can aliases work in tandem with AE?

Let's say you've reserved a desirable alias 'foo'.

You issue 'foo' asset on AE.

Now what?

One could theoretically use an alias to point to the AssetID of the asset they sell.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1004
Is there a wiki (or just a webpage) that covers the basic functionality (that might be helpful to newcomers)?

Well, newcoming programmers could read http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_API#Asset_exchange_operations, should be enough for them...
very good and useful.
full member
Activity: 350
Merit: 100
So, to all the brainiacs and big idea people out there --

How can aliases work in tandem with AE?

Let's say you've reserved a desirable alias 'foo'.

You issue 'foo' asset on AE.

Now what?
member
Activity: 95
Merit: 10
That guy, you know, with the face
@V4V

The problem with that escrow is that the consumer must to notify receipt of the item, so the only way to ensure that the incompetent consumer doesn't say "Yay, it shipped, I must be done with the transaction!"  and disappear into a cave, is if the shipment is somehow verifiable by the escrow itself.

Okay, come to think of it, there are shipping options that notify of receipt of an item, and integrating this into an escrow protocol can't be too hard to automate.  A system like this could solve the physical commodities issue.  For currency though, this could get very legally grey.

But combine this with a system to invest and receive dividends in a one stop manner, and I could see a big future in Nxt AE.

Though, I must say, paying Nxt itself is probably the simplest way to transact real commodities, rather than through the AE.  I think the AE should focus more on intellectual commodities.  A simple dividend system within the protocol could do amazing things.  Tough I do worry there are legal issues that arise from trading intellectual commodities in a peer-to-peer environment.

Edit: Shameless plugging of my asset on testnet!  Buy Vannicke's Zeroes and Ones!  Best digital bits in town!  AssetID: 10956216527757194145

Also, the client 0.0.5e seems much faster than 0.0.5 for some operations, such as adding asks/bids and moving through some menus.
full member
Activity: 350
Merit: 100
Real world commodity exchange is possible. But escrow involves the buyer transferring funds to escrow, and the escrow account confirming to the seller that funds have hit the escrow account. From this point, the buyer and seller can communicate with each other and discuss where to ship the item to. When the item is received by the buyer, the escrow will release funds to the seller.

On a side note... I believe peer to peer exchange is a wonderful notion. But the downside is trying to find liquidity (whether its currency or commodity) in a decentralized structure. Centralization is a great mechanism for bringing buyers and sellers to a central location and this has what made centralized markets effective and efficient. Think about going back to the bartering days.


Who wants to start a Craigslist like website for the crypto-currency market? Buyers and Sellers can come together looking for (___________) and they can contact each other through NXT messaging and set up the transaction p2p. It is a great way to find goods and services in a decentralized structure.

What do you guys think?

I love the idea, but how is browsing a craigslist-style site different/better than just firing up your AE-enabled Nxt client and looking thru a list of open orders for the currency you want?
V4V
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
Real world commodity exchange is possible. But escrow involves the buyer transferring funds to escrow, and the escrow account confirming to the seller that funds have hit the escrow account. From this point, the buyer and seller can communicate with each other and discuss where to ship the item to. When the item is received by the buyer, the escrow will release funds to the seller.

On a side note... I believe peer to peer exchange is a wonderful notion. But the downside is trying to find liquidity (whether its currency or commodity) in a decentralized structure. Centralization is a great mechanism for bringing buyers and sellers to a central location and this has what made centralized markets effective and efficient. Think about going back to the bartering days.


Who wants to start a Craigslist like website for the crypto-currency market? Buyers and Sellers can come together looking for (___________) and they can contact each other through NXT messaging and set up the transaction p2p. It is a great way to find goods and services in a decentralized structure.

What do you guys think?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
how to get a testNXT account???

there is a link to where you download the client in the op. once you get it set up tell me your address and ill send you some text nxt. i have 68k atm so thats plenty to go around

Perhaps you could repeat this link and some basic instructions in your first post in this thread.

testNXT instructions:

1. See CfB's post here.
2. Create testNXT account here: https://holms.cloudapp.net:6875
3. DO NOT use your main password account; create an account by using a new, unique passphrase.
4. You can download fmiboy's AE-enabled client here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5084677
5. Ask for testNXT in main thread or here; include your testNXT account number.
6. HAVE FUN!




18011833952203456566

can I have some? thx
full member
Activity: 183
Merit: 100
TDTPJR-P5SGXY-UU2OS6-BPTUV4-NJYQFT-6CWYZP-IA2W
cool stuff! Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1005

In my mind I have another approach for trust, not using any rating system, using some "permanent account" to act like escrow.

1. Jon wants to sell "asset" for Sue for 100NXT
2. Jon push "sell", asset goes to "permanent account"
3. Sue push "buy", 100 NXT goes to "permanent account"
4. If both things arrived to "permanent account" then this account sends 100 NXT to Joe and "asset" to Sue.

"Permanent account" is only for naming, can't find better description for now Smiley Does it sound stupid? Smiley

Yes, but how would you implement this for real world items.  When Jon pushes "Sell" he can't send 10 ounces of bullion through the internet, for example.  This could be a decent way to send/recieve other cryptocurrecies, but who has the access to the escrow account in order to send the received BTC when Sue pushes "Buy", for example?  It could be done for some things like other cryptos, but how do you make it p2p and secure?  Real world commodity trade may be difficult with this approach.

OK, this questions are for devs Smiley That was only conception.

Just to be certain, I did not mean "yes" in my post "Does this sound stupid?"  >_<

Its a decent idea, but there is an issue in who controls the asset accounts.  Unless I'm missing something, the only way we can send from the "permanent account" is if the account is controlled by a trusted escrow.  It's doable, but makes it less decentralized.

What might be interesting is to implement escrow right into the asset exchange, so that anyone can have a rated escrow account as well.  For example:

1. Jon wants to sell "asset" for Sue for 100NXT but has little or no rating.
2. Jon push "sell", and sends the asset to a linked and highly rated escrow account
3. Sue pushes "buy", 100 NXT goes to the linked and highly rated escrows account
4. If both things arrived to account then this account sends the 100 NXT to Joe and asset to Sue.
5. Upon successful transaction, the escrow, Jon and Sue all +1 each other for a good trade, thus developing rep for Jon, Sue, and the escrow.

Just an idea, still hard to implement the real world commodity part of the escrow, and maybe that would complicate it too much, but just an idea.  Still, I think ratings of some sort could establish trust.  As far as commodities go though, I think a system to easily implement dividends may prove useful, but I wonder the legal implications of such a thing.  But a full peer-to-peer trading platform would be excellent.


Edit: pardon me, I've derailed the thread to suggestions ... back to asset exchange testing.

Ok, I'm not native English speaker, but try to explain my thoughts:

This conception is suitable on things, which we can cross-chain in NXT. Most of them are crypto. "permanent account" or "escrow" I meant is hardcoded in protocol and serves only for collecting "assets" from both parties and release them to both parties. I mean if Sue push "buy", but Joe will not push "sell", assets goes back to Sue. If both push their buttons, escrow releases assets to both parties.

Or something like this Smiley

P.S. for a while I don't see how to use Asset Exchange for real world commodity Smiley

EDIT: "permanent account" or "Escrow" could be the similar account we have today: Genesis account or account, collecting fees and sending them to block forgers.
full member
Activity: 350
Merit: 100
how to get a testNXT account???

there is a link to where you download the client in the op. once you get it set up tell me your address and ill send you some text nxt. i have 68k atm so thats plenty to go around

Perhaps you could repeat this link and some basic instructions in your first post in this thread.

testNXT instructions:

1. See CfB's post here.
2. Create testNXT account here: https://holms.cloudapp.net:6875
3. DO NOT use your main password account; create an account by using a new, unique passphrase.
4. You can download fmiboy's AE-enabled client here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5084677
5. Ask for testNXT in main thread or here; include your testNXT account number.
6. HAVE FUN!


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