NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 64.

btc2nxt

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Quote from: jl777 on April 03, 2014, 07:09:22 PM

It seems some reasonable stuff from Texas

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/texas-department-banking-reveals-regulatory-treatment-virtual-currencies-texas-money-services-act/2014/04/03

Exchange of cryptocurrency for sovereign currency between two parties is not money
transmission.

Exchange of cryptocurrency for sovereign currency through a third party exchanger is
generally money transmission.

jl777

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does anybody know of a portable'ish C source code that obtains the computer's IP address?

jl777

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Merit: 1134

Quote from: BrianNowhere on April 03, 2014, 08:07:26 PM

Quote from: jl777 on April 03, 2014, 07:33:37 PM

I am pretty sure my math is sound on this one.

As long as there is 51% stake (of forging nodes) that are the good guys, the bad guys cant confirm their evil blocks

So, if only 40% are forging, then if the NXTristry control more than 20%, everyone else is safe

Edit: while I am a generalist I do have a "math guy" hat I wear on occasion. good thing I didnt lose a bet and had to eat it! (ignore the two spaces after the period, purely coincidence)

Finally something resembling a clear answer. Rings pretty close to the ol' BTC 51% attack thing.
I thought that Nxt was supposed to be safe from a 51% attack and even a 90% attack.

If a group or government can covertly obtain 51% of all Nxt can they bring down the network?

they better do it soon, before CfB completes the full TF implementation
once that is in place, all the nodes can see that it is being attacked and switch to listening to only the good nodes
it is not about some fancy math algos, with transparency every node can see what the bad nodes did, so more a detection of bad forging is what is needed

James

P.S. Due to liquidity issues, if anybody tried to purchase even 10% of NXT, it will go to .01 BTC. I cant estimate the price it would go to if someone really was shooting for 51% ownership.

Daedelus

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Someone get the link to CfBs transparent forging thread, then Ciyans duscusions on the pros and cons of using a penalty and we'll all meet back here un 6 hours when weve caught up Grin

I jest

I'm really going now

Daedelus

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Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: BrianNowhere on April 03, 2014, 08:01:26 PM

Quote from: Daedelus on April 03, 2014, 07:42:08 PM

Quote from: BrianNowhere on April 03, 2014, 07:30:25 PM

Is this provable math or NxtMinnow like guesstimation?

Now who is passive aggressive Cheesy

Passive aggressive would be spitting in nxtMinnow's oatmeal. I made a joke about NxtMinnow out in the open, which is just aggressive aggressive.

CIYAM would get the joke.

We'll call it a cultural difference then Wink

If you're sticking around, harmony666 might do you a good deal on some Nxts Wink

However, I must go so I hope it is sunny wherever you are. See you on the other side Grin

BrianNowhere

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Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: jl777 on April 03, 2014, 07:33:37 PM

I am pretty sure my math is sound on this one.

As long as there is 51% stake (of forging nodes) that are the good guys, the bad guys cant confirm their evil blocks

So, if only 40% are forging, then if the NXTristry control more than 20%, everyone else is safe

Edit: while I am a generalist I do have a "math guy" hat I wear on occasion. good thing I didnt lose a bet and had to eat it! (ignore the two spaces after the period, purely coincidence)

Finally something resembling a clear answer. Rings pretty close to the ol' BTC 51% attack thing.
I thought that Nxt was supposed to be safe from a 51% attack and even a 90% attack.

If a group or government can covertly obtain 51% of all Nxt can they bring down the network?

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Does anyone know if we still have a forging pool?

Apologies for the lazy question Grin

BrianNowhere

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Quote from: Daedelus on April 03, 2014, 07:42:08 PM

Quote from: BrianNowhere on April 03, 2014, 07:30:25 PM

Is this provable math or NxtMinnow like guesstimation?

Now who is passive aggressive Cheesy

Passive aggressive would be spitting in nxtMinnow's oatmeal. I made a joke about NxtMinnow out in the open, which is just aggressive aggressive.

CIYAM would get the joke.

BrianNowhere

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: pandaisftw on April 03, 2014, 07:43:34 PM

Quote from: BrianNowhere on April 03, 2014, 06:37:42 PM

For the record I have made suggestions about how to incentivise people to run open clients. My idea was to have a "jackpot" built into the core that distributes a large sum to a random forger at a random time every day. If you are not forging you can't win it and since you don't know when it's coming you always have to forge to be eligible. You could take a tiny bit from the other transactions to compile this prize. The odds of winning would be pretty low but it would be enough incentive to make people run clients.

Isn't this "jackpot" called "forging"? The more tickets (NXT) you own, the higher chance you have to win, yes?

If it isn't based on stake (aka random), what's to prevent someone from creating 10000000 accounts and winning all the jackpots? This was discussed in the very beginning of NXT - doing it this way would cause a large fragmentation of accounts (everyone would create as many 1 NXT accounts as possible), and that really is not an ideal situation.

Well the "jackpot" would have to be pretty big, much bigger than a typical forging reward, so I would not call it synonymous with forging. However the point on people creating tons of accounts is valid and I hadn't considered that. I didn't say I had the best idea, just pointing out that I do more than "complain", which was the accusation I was responding to.

However, you might still be able to counter the fragmentation problem by doing something like having a reasonable minimum balance
required for an account to be eligible to win the jackpot. You might also be able to make it so multiple accounts can't forge on a single computer. If they are splitting up forging accounts on multiple computers then that would only be good for the network and
would be a legitimate way to try and increase your odds.

pandaisftw

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Quote from: BrianNowhere on April 03, 2014, 06:37:42 PM

For the record I have made suggestions about how to incentivise people to run open clients. My idea was to have a "jackpot" built into the core that distributes a large sum to a random forger at a random time every day. If you are not forging you can't win it and since you don't know when it's coming you always have to forge to be eligible. You could take a tiny bit from the other transactions to compile this prize. The odds of winning would be pretty low but it would be enough incentive to make people run clients.

Isn't this "jackpot" called "forging"? The more tickets (NXT) you own, the higher chance you have to win, yes?

If it isn't based on stake (aka random), what's to prevent someone from creating 10000000 accounts and winning all the jackpots? This was discussed in the very beginning of NXT - doing it this way would cause a large fragmentation of accounts (everyone would create as many 1 NXT accounts as possible), and that really is not an ideal situation.

Daedelus

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Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: BrianNowhere on April 03, 2014, 07:30:25 PM

Is this provable math or NxtMinnow like guesstimation?

Now who is passive aggressive Cheesy

jl777

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Activity: 1176

Merit: 1134

Quote from: BrianNowhere on April 03, 2014, 07:30:25 PM

Quote from: jl777 on April 03, 2014, 07:12:07 PM

100 accounts should be enough, as long as they have high enough stakes
all the complaining about unfair distribution, but it actually has some benefits
things like NEM, if they really do have even distribution, will have a much harder time to keep secure
with NXT, as long as the NXT millionaires care enough, NXT will be secure
If you had millions of NXT, would you bother to run a node?

You are basically saying the top 1% can protect the 99%, who can all turn off their computers and sleep soundly.
That is, as long as the top 1% are rich enough. This naturally leads to the question, what percentage of all available stake do
these 100 captains of Nxt-ristry need to be commanding?

Is this provable math or NxtMinnow like guesstimation? Anyway we could get metclyl (math guy) to weigh in?

I am pretty sure my math is sound on this one.

As long as there is 51% stake (of forging nodes) that are the good guys, the bad guys cant confirm their evil blocks

So, if only 40% are forging, then if the NXTristry control more than 20%, everyone else is safe

Edit: while I am a generalist I do have a "math guy" hat I wear on occasion. good thing I didnt lose a bet and had to eat it! (ignore the two spaces after the period, purely coincidence)

BrianNowhere

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: jl777 on April 03, 2014, 07:12:07 PM

100 accounts should be enough, as long as they have high enough stakes
all the complaining about unfair distribution, but it actually has some benefits
things like NEM, if they really do have even distribution, will have a much harder time to keep secure
with NXT, as long as the NXT millionaires care enough, NXT will be secure
If you had millions of NXT, would you bother to run a node?

You are basically saying the top 1% can protect the 99%, who can all turn off their computers and sleep soundly.
That is, as long as the top 1% are rich enough. This naturally leads to the question, what percentage of all available stake do
these 100 captains of Nxt-ristry need to be commanding?

Is this provable math or NxtMinnow like guesstimation? Anyway we could get metclyl (math guy) to weigh in?

Daedelus

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Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: jl777 on April 03, 2014, 07:17:46 PM

Quote from: Daedelus on April 03, 2014, 07:09:37 PM

Quote from: yuriygeorge on April 03, 2014, 06:38:20 PM

Is there a way to make Nxt more anonymous? Or is it built-in? I see in the explorer you can see all the transactions... Jw

You can start a topic on nxtforum to find out about nxtcash. James is developing it and is tied in with his multisig gateway. Uber anonymous were told. Don't expect it overnight Wink

Or pm him.

Or he'll magically pop up and help us out Grin

Actually, all the services I am building are built on top of the NXTprotocol layer.
multisig is one such thing
so is NXTmixer and NXTcash
so is nodecoin!

I need to wait for clarity on parallel chains for NXTcash, but my opinion is that NXTcash (zerocoin) by itself is not really enough due to usability issues. I designed NXTmixer to work in tandem with NXTcash to get the uber anonymity.

Goods news is that NXTmixer is a standalone service with benefits in and of itself and I have already started coding the second version. proof of concept version was just a one off test of crypto handshake

No timeframes on these as I work on half a dozen projects at once. When a project gets close to done, I go into release mode for that project. multigateway is the current project in release mode, but stalled the last three days due to testnet resets and lack of testNXT.

James

Thanks for the correction Grin

I'll pm you for the full details for the glossary entries Wink

Daedelus

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Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: BrianNowhere on April 03, 2014, 07:05:45 PM

Quote from: Daedelus on April 03, 2014, 06:49:53 PM

Graviton will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it
NMAC will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it
AnonSilver will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it
'CfB enterprises' will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it

Nxt is taking aim at businesses ('wall street guys' in cfb talk). The features of Nxt will appeal to them and will hopefully come on board, if enough time is given to allow the devs to do their work. In a recent fudstorm, there were complaints about Nxt not being divisible. They were told its in dev as we speak (not that they listened). Now we have nxtquants.

If you want to take a dig at nxt, go ahead. But give it time before you bang on about the same issues! At least a week, I'd say two Grin

Maybe post on the tech forum to find out how things are going. If you come back a day later, you won't be popular Roll Eyes

In the future, fingers crossed, Apple 2 will forge because it is... Google 3 will forge because it is... etc

Let's move on

Here's the big question that I haven't been able to get an answer from anyone here about. I don't care anymore because I have divested myself but others might want to try to get an answer.

If there are say, 100,000 Nxt accounts, what percentage of them need to be running open clients for the system to be secure?
Is it 10% 20% 50% 75%? Does anyone even know? Nobody answers when I ask.

The only reason I've harped on the same question is because no one has given a satisfactory answer. In fact this is when the devs get very slippery and evasive and people start calling me a troll.

I can't tell you. But you would need at least one more variable to take into account the hypothetical distribution in an arbitrary number of accounts.

Anyone interested, start a thread and send it to our maths guys. mtchl would be your starting point. If you want specialist info, go to the specialists. Not to the bus stop and then ask every passer by Grin

Edit: or prove james wrong

jl777

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Activity: 1176

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Quote from: Daedelus on April 03, 2014, 07:09:37 PM

Quote from: yuriygeorge on April 03, 2014, 06:38:20 PM

Is there a way to make Nxt more anonymous? Or is it built-in? I see in the explorer you can see all the transactions... Jw

You can start a topic on nxtforum to find out about nxtcash. James is developing it and is tied in with his multisig gateway. Uber anonymous were told. Don't expect it overnight Wink

Or pm him.

Or he'll magically pop up and help us out Grin

Actually, all the services I am building are built on top of the NXTprotocol layer.
multisig is one such thing
so is NXTmixer and NXTcash
so is nodecoin!

I need to wait for clarity on parallel chains for NXTcash, but my opinion is that NXTcash (zerocoin) by itself is not really enough due to usability issues. I designed NXTmixer to work in tandem with NXTcash to get the uber anonymity.

Goods news is that NXTmixer is a standalone service with benefits in and of itself and I have already started coding the second version. proof of concept version was just a one off test of crypto handshake

No timeframes on these as I work on half a dozen projects at once. When a project gets close to done, I go into release mode for that project. multigateway is the current project in release mode, but stalled the last three days due to testnet resets and lack of testNXT.

James

jl777

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Activity: 1176

Merit: 1134

Quote from: BrianNowhere on April 03, 2014, 07:05:45 PM

Quote from: Daedelus on April 03, 2014, 06:49:53 PM

Graviton will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it
NMAC will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it
AnonSilver will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it
'CfB enterprises' will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it

Nxt is taking aim at businesses ('wall street guys' in cfb talk). The features of Nxt will appeal to them and will hopefully come on board, if enough time is given to allow the devs to do their work. In a recent fudstorm, there were complaints about Nxt not being divisible. They were told its in dev as we speak (not that they listened). Now we have nxtquants.

If you want to take a dig at nxt, go ahead. But give it time before you bang on about the same issues! At least a week, I'd say two Grin

Maybe post on the tech forum to find out how things are going. If you come back a day later, you won't be popular Roll Eyes

In the future, fingers crossed, Apple 2 will forge because it is... Google 3 will forge because it is... etc

Let's move on

Here's the big question that I haven't been able to get an answer from anyone here about. I don't care anymore because I have divested myself but others might want to try to get an answer.

If there are say, 100,000 Nxt accounts, what percentage of them need to be running open clients for the system to be secure?
Is it 10% 20% 50% 75%? Does anyone even know? Nobody answers when I ask.

The only reason I've harped on the same question is because no one has given a satisfactory answer. In fact this is when the devs get very slippery and evasive and people start calling me a troll.

100 accounts should be enough, as long as they have high enough stakes
all the complaining about unfair distribution, but it actually has some benefits
things like NEM, if they really do have even distribution, will have a much harder time to keep secure
with NXT, as long as the NXT millionaires care enough, NXT will be secure
If you had millions of NXT, would you bother to run a node?

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: yuriygeorge on April 03, 2014, 06:38:20 PM

Is there a way to make Nxt more anonymous? Or is it built-in? I see in the explorer you can see all the transactions... Jw

You can start a topic on nxtforum to find out about nxtcash. James is developing it and is tied in with his multisig gateway. Uber anonymous were told. Don't expect it overnight Wink

Or pm him.

Or he'll magically pop up and help us out Grin

jl777

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1134

It seems some reasonable stuff from Texas

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/texas-department-banking-reveals-regulatory-treatment-virtual-currencies-texas-money-services-act/2014/04/03

BrianNowhere

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: Daedelus on April 03, 2014, 06:49:53 PM

Graviton will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it
NMAC will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it
AnonSilver will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it
'CfB enterprises' will forge out of self interest, their business depends on it

Nxt is taking aim at businesses ('wall street guys' in cfb talk). The features of Nxt will appeal to them and will hopefully come on board, if enough time is given to allow the devs to do their work. In a recent fudstorm, there were complaints about Nxt not being divisible. They were told its in dev as we speak (not that they listened). Now we have nxtquants.

If you want to take a dig at nxt, go ahead. But give it time before you bang on about the same issues! At least a week, I'd say two Grin

Maybe post on the tech forum to find out how things are going. If you come back a day later, you won't be popular Roll Eyes

In the future, fingers crossed, Apple 2 will forge because it is... Google 3 will forge because it is... etc

Let's move on

Here's the big question that I haven't been able to get an answer from anyone here about. I don't care anymore because I have divested myself but others might want to try to get an answer.

If there are say, 100,000 Nxt accounts, what percentage of them need to be running open clients for the system to be secure?
Is it 10% 20% 50% 75%? Does anyone even know? Nobody answers when I ask.

The only reason I've harped on the same question is because no one has given a satisfactory answer. In fact this is when the devs get very slippery and evasive and people start calling me a troll.

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 64. (Read 2761629 times)