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Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 648. (Read 2761637 times)

newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
One final thing I will say about the (lack of proper) statistical analysis is that for my own involvement in Nxt I would rather be paid in BTC (if I am to be paid anything at all).

I have read proper statistical papers (such as created by Meni) with sound math describing all of the possible attacks upon Bitcoin and I am much more satisfied with that then the "just trust BCNext's algorithm argument" who himself btw actually stated "don't trust me".

It seems that things like "proper analysis" are not things that this community wants to do or even hear about. Sad


I bet most of us believe that BCNext did math analysis and found no flaws.

With respect: this is a glib, bullshit answer, and you can't prove the "most of us" part any more than you can prove the "BCNext did math analysis" part.

Three months in and we have no Whitepaper, no documentation of algorithms, and no modelling or statistical analysis.

The greatest irony of the great decentralized Nxt Ecosystem is that its core is centralized in an opaque, anonymous identity who only communicates to the world through a Belarusan Java programmer on contract.

One day soon, Nxt will be called out for this. It is Nxt's biggest flaw.


This is my biggest doubt so far in Nxt, and I am sure for everyone else as well... I agree that BCNext not releasing his white paper, documentation, or algorithms three months in is annoying. Is there any timeline in the near future?
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 504
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004

Has there been any thought or moves to marketing directly to groups that may benefit from using NXT? i.e. Trade Unions, Chambers of Commerce maybe Small or local government bodies? This type of marketing would be fairly cheap; Only involving time and not much $ to get rolling on. NXT could be made to seem very appealing to these types of organizations if presented in the right way.

I think we would lose all credibility if we were being used by local government bodies.

I was thinking not in terms of direct use of the NXT currency, but by use of the asset exchange. Trade unions, and government bodies can by means of contract or legislation create demand for assets that they could generate on the AE. For example a union could negotiate into their contract that a portion of their pension be funded with an asset that they create, and any signatory contractor that employed any of that unions workers would be bound to invest in that asset. This would benefit the unions in the same way that the original block genesis of NXT benefited the stake holders. They would have control of the assets availability and thus the value of the asset. The contractor would not be at a disadvantage as they would have to pay the same amount out for the pension wether it were paid in FED. RESERVE notes or cryptos. The holders of the asset would gain from the increase in value of the asset as it were sold on the market, and could generate the asset for free and have control over its availability. It could work in a similar way for any body that could leverage a demand through contract or legislation. They wouldn't be endorsing the NXT currency directly, but would be forced to participate to a certain degree to use the AE. These types of groups may be easy to influence as they stand to profit with very little investment and could have direct control over the asset.

Just a thought.

Yeah, I see that, I like the ideas nonetheless.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10

I actually drew attention to this just a few weeks ago and it covers several pages backwards in this thread.
Also talked with CfB on skype about it just yesterday.
I agree, the infrastructure needs to get fixing and a structured plan ASAP or we'll be stuck in nomansland quick

We had a 10 BTC bounty on proper cryptanalysis by a specialist . That thing still went nowhere

Hopefully you're still reaching out and trying to make it happen!
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500

I actually drew attention to this just a few weeks ago and it covers several pages backwards in this thread.
Also talked with CfB on skype about it just yesterday.
I agree, the infrastructure needs to get fixing and a structured plan ASAP or we'll be stuck in nomansland quick

We had a 10 BTC bounty on proper cryptanalysis by a specialist . That thing still went nowhere
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
One final thing I will say about the (lack of proper) statistical analysis is that for my own involvement in Nxt I would rather be paid in BTC (if I am to be paid anything at all).

I have read proper statistical papers (such as created by Meni) with sound math describing all of the possible attacks upon Bitcoin and I am much more satisfied with that then the "just trust BCNext's algorithm argument" who himself btw actually stated "don't trust me".

It seems that things like "proper analysis" are not things that this community wants to do or even hear about. Sad

That is not true. I do want to properly analyze the TF algo, but we dont have it yet, so what to do?
It is good that we are preparing some tools to be able to get a jump start on the analysis. Until it is released, we can only build analysis tools. Any results from it doesnt really apply except in the most general terms.

legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
Agreed (minus the vulgar language), we can market AE when it's finished with testing and we are happy with it.

Btw, who is really testing it? I got only a few bug reports.

I don't really need AE working (I'm not a trader and don't need to IPO anything), so I can wait till April. The community should focus on testing if it does need AE.
I need AE for a LOT of things!
I have been concentrating on the gateway side of AE and assuming that its functionality has been tested.

For everybody that wants to be able to trade other cryptos directly in AE, please test AE trading.

I am planning on test release of DOGE gateway this weekend. Once DOGE gateway is tested, adding any other bitcoind fork should go really fast.

James
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
NXT.org
One final thing I will say about the (lack of proper) statistical analysis is that for my own involvement in Nxt I would rather be paid in BTC (if I am to be paid anything at all).

I have read proper statistical papers (such as created by Meni) with sound math describing all of the possible attacks upon Bitcoin and I am much more satisfied with that then the "just trust BCNext's algorithm argument" who himself btw actually stated "don't trust me".

It seems that things like "proper analysis" are not things that this community wants to do or even hear about. Sad


I bet most of us believe that BCNext did math analysis and found no flaws.

With respect: this is a glib, bullshit answer, and you can't prove the "most of us" part any more than you can prove the "BCNext did math analysis" part.

Three months in and we have no Whitepaper, no documentation of algorithms, and no modelling or statistical analysis.

The greatest irony of the great decentralized Nxt Ecosystem is that its core is centralized in an opaque, anonymous identity who only communicates to the world through a Belarusan Java programmer on contract.

One day soon, Nxt will be called out for this. It is Nxt's biggest flaw.



I actually drew attention to this just a few weeks ago and it covers several pages backwards in this thread.
Also talked with CfB on skype about it just yesterday.
I agree, the infrastructure needs to get fixing and a structured plan ASAP or we'll be stuck in nomansland quick
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
One final thing I will say about the (lack of proper) statistical analysis is that for my own involvement in Nxt I would rather be paid in BTC (if I am to be paid anything at all).

I have read proper statistical papers (such as created by Meni) with sound math describing all of the possible attacks upon Bitcoin and I am much more satisfied with that then the "just trust BCNext's algorithm argument" who himself btw actually stated "don't trust me".

It seems that things like "proper analysis" are not things that this community wants to do or even hear about. Sad


I bet most of us believe that BCNext did math analysis and found no flaws.

With respect: this is a glib, bullshit answer, and you can't prove the "most of us" part any more than you can prove the "BCNext did math analysis" part.

Three months in and we have no Whitepaper, no documentation of algorithms, and no modelling or statistical analysis.

The greatest irony of the great decentralized Nxt Ecosystem is that its core is centralized in an opaque, anonymous identity who only communicates to the world through a Belarusan Java programmer on contract.

One day soon, Nxt will be called out for this. It is Nxt's biggest flaw.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
I don't get your idea, or I get it. I don't know.

Instead of leasing forge power, you commit with your account to share fees among others in the same "share fee group" if you forge a node. You still try to forge a block on your own, but you commit to share the incentive with others if you are successful (with special conditions like committing to run the node for some time, ...). Could this be done with AT and would that make sense?

there really isnt much point in this mechanism.  what you are describing is basically a rube goldberg contraption that produces the exact result of current NXT account/network forging

not exactly see you in maths

leasing forging power of a account to another account to create pools

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool

John account  90.000 Nxt 0 Node participate in forging
Mary account  9.900 Nxt 0 Node participate in forging
Bob account  100 Nxt 0 Node participate in forging

Total pool 100.000 Nxt 1 Node paticipate in forging
Total 1 Node participate in forging

Chance to forge 0,0001
rate forging 1440 blocs per day
52,6 Blocs per year
aprox 1 Bloc per week

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool
10.000 Node participate in forging

share fee group

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)

John account  90.000 Nxt 1 Node participate in forging
Mary account  9.900 Nxt 1 Node participate in forging
Bob account  100 Nxt 1 Node participate in forging

Total pool (share fee group) 100.000 Nxt
Total Nodes 3 Node participate in forging

Chance to forge 0,0001
rate forging 1440 blocs per day
52,6 Blocs per year
aprox 1 Bloc per week

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)
30.000 Nodes participate in forging. if there are only three accounts linked per pool (share fee group)

I am wrong?

I suppose 30,000 nodes are sufficient to ensure the network

Now imagine if I am correct with 1,000,000 Nxt coins pools (share fee group)

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
1.000.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)

10 accounts  90.000 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging
10 accounts  9.900 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging
10 accounts  100 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging

Total pool (share fee group) 1.000.000 Nxt
Total 30 Nodes participate in forging

Chance to forge 0,001
rate forging 1440 blocs per day
526 Blocs per year
aprox 1,44 Blocs per day. 100 Nxt account is forging every day. receives fees in proportion to their funds every day!!!

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
1.000.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)
30.000 Nodes participate in forging. if there are only 30 accounts linked per pool (share fee group)

this means;

Extremely decentralized network (in the exemple 30.000 Nodes) Small accounts motivated to participate in forging (In the exemple 100 Nxt account is forging every day)
You just have to solve for the fees to be sufficiently attractive.

An interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased computing power
Other interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased memory storage capacity
PLEASE stop trying to make money with forging. It's purpose is spam prevention. Any amounts coming in from forging is just nice unexpected bonus.

If you want to make money using "mining" paradigm, just wait for NXTcoins that will be coming out. Then you can make new coins and it will even payout dividends in NXT, probably more than forging.

Forging is for spam prevention. It is not meant to be a dividend income

James
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
@CoinTropolis_JustaBitTime

Have u guys got The Register on your list?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/

They've currently got MtGox as one of their headline stories, and are a real go-to site for the pro geek/nerd community.

Yup, on the list. I was in contact with The Register since Feather did their first interview with them.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
@CIYAM: Is there a special reason for taking this approach

Code:
        int divisor = rand( ) % 10;

         if( divisor == 0 )
            ++divisor;

         weights[ i ] = ( rand( ) % 10000 ) * ( balances[ i ] / divisor );


instead of taking an approach equivalent to the nxt implementation?
Something like

Code:
        weights[ i ] = ( rand( ) % 10000 ) / balances[ i ];


Am pretty sure that whether you pick the "highest" or "lowest" is not relevant - so although not identical in coding it is statistically equivalent.

If you'd like to change it and try please post the results (especially if that percentages or "lucky runs" change much).

BCNext's code takes advantages of seemingly magical numerical ratios, kind of like Tesla's hand tuned coil designs. Have you verified that ordinary rand() has anywhere the same distribution as the current method based on crypto calculation values? BCNext could fully understand how the sequence progresses in what is a pseudorandom fashion and I highly doubt that the behavior of rand() has the right properties. If it did, why dont we see the rand() function used in forging? [Of course all nodes using same seed].

I think the reason is that it took a lot of experimentation to find a pseudo-random algo that had the desired properties. For the simulation to have weight in my mind, it would need to use the same method used by NXT. The injected fatal flaw could be that the EXACT specific genesis block values are needed for the network to be stable. Any haphazard initial condition could allow a 51% attack or some other attack. Just changing the initial conditions could change network stability, let alone totally changing the method of generating the pseudorandom number or how that number is used.

My prediction is that in April, the current partial TF algo will change DRAMATICALLY and all this worry is for naught. Again, I counsel against performing brain surgery with a chain saw, or even think about doing it, especially blindfolded.

James
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1001
@CoinTropolis_JustaBitTime

Have u guys got The Register on your list?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/

They've currently got MtGox as one of their headline stories, and are a real go-to site for the pro geek/nerd community.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
A special thank you from Songs of Love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehrIvLJXcsE


member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Here's the companies I've emailed concerning Klee's 1 million Nxt donation. Not only did I include a link to the press release, I also pointed the writers to information about Nxt on nxtcrypto.org.


Update 1:

Forbes
Bleacher Report
Irish Independent
The Verge
CNNMoney
AllThingsd
The Guardian
Coindesk
Tech Crunch
IB Times
Washington Post
Digital Trends
WSJ
Wired
LA Times
Cinc. Business Courier
Zdnet
Entrepreneur
Bloomberg
VentureBeat
Cnet

You'd be better off including a short piece about NXT as a part of the press release.
Give them exactly want you want them to print, don't expect journalists to actually do some research.

But +1 anyway, good work.
Try the BBC news website, btw, lots of smaller newspapers and sites just steal stories directly from them.

You bet, BBC is on the list.  I've also included information about Nxt directly in the emails.  I agree about adding Nxt information in the press release, it would be a big help if this was accomplished.

legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1010
I hope so they won't feel spammed by Nxt, because I was sending them other texts in last days

Being spammed is their JOB!
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 504
I hope so they won't feel spammed by Nxt, because I was sending them other texts in last days
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1001
Here's the companies I've emailed concerning Klee's 1 million Nxt donation. Not only did I include a link to the press release, I also pointed the writers to information about Nxt on nxtcrypto.org.


Update 1:

Forbes
Bleacher Report
Irish Independent
The Verge
CNNMoney
AllThingsd
The Guardian
Coindesk
Tech Crunch
IB Times
Washington Post
Digital Trends
WSJ
Wired
LA Times
Cinc. Business Courier
Zdnet
Entrepreneur
Bloomberg
VentureBeat
Cnet

You'd be better off including a short piece about NXT as a part of the press release.
Give them exactly want you want them to print, don't expect journalists to actually do some research.

But +1 anyway, good work.
Try the BBC news website, btw, lots of smaller newspapers and sites just steal stories directly from them.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Here's the companies I've emailed concerning Klee's 1 million Nxt donation. Not only did I include a link to the press release, I also pointed the writers to information about Nxt on nxtcrypto.org.


Update 1:

Forbes
Bleacher Report
Irish Independent
The Verge
CNNMoney
AllThingsd
The Guardian
Coindesk
Tech Crunch
IB Times
Washington Post
Digital Trends
WSJ
Wired
LA Times
Cinc. Business Courier
Zdnet
Entrepreneur
Bloomberg
VentureBeat
Cnet

Note: Each message was to individual writers that have covered Bitcoin related stories in the past. I will send emails to the general publication contact addresses in future updates tonight.
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