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Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 715. (Read 2761645 times)

full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

The question is "forging with what"?

If let's say 100 powerful machines are shut down by an authority and the majority of stake holders are "rich old men" who aren't that technically savvy then you are now running a network of maybe a few thousand desktop computers (or even less powerful devices) that are run by hobbyists and that is not going to do 1000+ TPS.

I am not saying the network would *die* but that it would be *seriously damaged* in terms of the TPS it could process and that in itself could cause *panic*.


1000 tps processing requires mid-level hosting hardware. Still see no problem.

After discussing this issue with CIYAM Open I got that we indeed have a problem here. If users will just lease their power and forget then one day Nxt network may die.


THIS is why I pushed for there to be a separate infrastructure fund committee, to figure this stuff out ahead of time and prepare for it.

full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100

You have completely missed the point - once our "much hyped" 1000+ TPS has been slowed down to 10 TPS people are going to dump NXT and run (making the network even more fragile) rather than "go out and by a powerful computer to help restore the network" and that could turn out to be a catastrophic event.
Who says you need powerful computers to forge?  And 1000+ TPS is pure marketing. There is no way in hell Nxt is getting anywhere close to that amount of transactions in the next 5 years.
If you build it, they will come.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

The question is "forging with what"?

If let's say 100 powerful machines are shut down by an authority and the majority of stake holders are "rich old men" who aren't that technically savvy then you are now running a network of maybe a few thousand desktop computers (or even less powerful devices) that are run by hobbyists and that is not going to do 1000+ TPS.

I am not saying the network would *die* but that it would be *seriously damaged* in terms of the TPS it could process and that in itself could cause *panic*.


if only we give fees rights the same network could go automatic grouping the nodes that want to get to forge for example a size of 100000 nxt

this would lead to forge every 2 to 3 days that is a reasonable value

legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

The question is "forging with what"?

If let's say 100 powerful machines are shut down by an authority and the majority of stake holders are "rich old men" who aren't that technically savvy then you are now running a network of maybe a few thousand desktop computers (or even less powerful devices) that are run by hobbyists and that is not going to do 1000+ TPS.

I am not saying the network would *die* but that it would be *seriously damaged* in terms of the TPS it could process and that in itself could cause *panic*.


1000 tps processing requires mid-level hosting hardware. Still see no problem.

After discussing this issue with CIYAM Open I got that we indeed have a problem here. If users will just lease their power and forget then one day Nxt network may die.

Sorry for my previous mistake, my English is not good enough to get some ideas clearly.
full member
Activity: 236
Merit: 100
Using Nxt to give gold in BBS replacing member point system

in reddit, anyones can donate btc to authors if they think the authors’ opinion is very impressive.
In the same way, china has many bbs using member points. Vip members get many points, but thes points are no use. So if these points convert nxts, vip member would be very glad help other members. There are a huge members in IT.
there are three parters: website(using member point system) ,nrs in personal computer or mobile, online wallet.
scenario:
1.   in website ,a member want to give gold to a author, click the author, show a send nxt screen, input the nxt number, like 100
2.   confirm.
a)   the website send a message to online-wallet or VPS,not using nxt chains(if sender don’t register in the online wallet, online-wallet just ignores it)
b)   the website throught the nxt chains ,send message to the sender(if sending message is too expensive ,the website may not use nxt). but now the fee is too high to implement this.
3.   send money
a)   sign in the online wallet, see the transaction, then confirm it,then money send to receiver.
b)   or open nrs on pc(iphone,andriod), see a new message containng payment information,click it ,show send money confirm , ,send meoney to the receiver.

using NXT,we can give gold in twitter,blog,weibo.cn
full member
Activity: 236
Merit: 100
Pump

Who is able to develop a lightweight NXT tool for Windows and Mac, which sits just in your taskbar/menubar (see picture as an example)?

Installing and running this little tool should be hassle free. You can lookup your account, use main Nxt functions (like sending NXT, messaging), activate/deactivate forging right from the menu and you see some general blockchain stats.

That way, we could promote this little gadget as a simple and lightweight tool which runs smoothly in the background, forging for you (or not) and securing the Nxt network.






(I'm no windows user. Do windows user still have this little apps in the task bar? Or is there a modern equivalent, like a gadget on the desktop?)


Since this is so OS-special, maybe two different developers for Windows and Mac. Come on, guys. Raise your hand for this project!

i am designing it basing marcus03 source code.
legendary
Activity: 1181
Merit: 1018
In ~8 hours I'm planning to reload the testnet, balances will be reset.

thanks for the announcement - will be en garde. Will need testNXT because FreeRider is becoming usable!
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Pump

Who is able to develop a lightweight NXT tool for Windows and Mac, which sits just in your taskbar/menubar (see picture as an example)?

Installing and running this little tool should be hassle free. You can lookup your account, use main Nxt functions (like sending NXT, messaging), activate/deactivate forging right from the menu and you see some general blockchain stats.

That way, we could promote this little gadget as a simple and lightweight tool which runs smoothly in the background, forging for you (or not) and securing the Nxt network.






(I'm no windows user. Do windows user still have this little apps in the task bar? Or is there a modern equivalent, like a gadget on the desktop?)


Since this is so OS-special, maybe two different developers for Windows and Mac. Come on, guys. Raise your hand for this project!
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
if we are changing the fees from 1 NXT drastically to 0.01 NXT when transactions are few right now, isn't it a security concern since people will stop running nodes since there is little incentive to it?

I would continue to run a node just protect my investment and to be a good member of the NXT community even if there was no chance of increasing my NXT. I have close to 70K NXT and have been forging since the first of the year and have generated 3 blocks - each of them for 0 NXT.

This guy is the ideal Nxt citizen. Although I can hardly believe anybody is forging right now to make nxt money, the fees are more about preventing
spamming. Its a tricky balance we are faced with especially at this early stage. We anticipate a robust nxt economy where hundreds or thousands
of businesses are dependent on the nxt network with our 1000 tps. When that day comes fees will not need to be so high yet forging will still be
profitable due to the constant influx of transactions. However at this point its like a ghost town in comparison so 1 nxt fee is still necessary.

That is why right now it is very important for everyone to support nxt not to get fees but to keep the network alive and well until that day comes.
I think I will cry when that day comes. No, not because all the community's hard work will have been paid off. No, not because BCNext's vision
of a new economy and less reliance on government control will be here. Not because there will be a Nxt Bible published filled with CFB's
mysterious riddles divided into chapters and Psalms. Not because of any of that. But because we will all be rich  Cry

It seems to me that the best solution to this chicken and egg problem is to gradually decrease the forging fee overtime based on the number of overall transactions in the network. kind of a sliding scale that will automatically kick in when the network averages an X number of transactions over a Y period. if transactions go down the number will increase back to the previous scale and so on and so forth. This way, when the network is large and not dependent on such fluctuations but on other economical and ideological incentives, fees will be low. If traffic and network participants slow down incentives will increase back until an equilibrium is reached. A gradual mechanism towards the ideal goal is better then radical shifts in the model.    
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
So I predict that in the future the vast majority of stake holders will not have much technical expertise and will simply have given their forging rights to a pool and we are likely to end up with a small number of large pools (say 10).

If those pools are attacked in any serious manner then the 1000+ TPS network will be slowed to a "crawl" with a lot of non-technical stake holders probably blissfully unaware (too busy enjoying cocktails on a tropical island).

Even if they become aware reasonably quickly they won't have enough computing power to "bring the network back up to speed".

Doesn't any else see this as being a problem?

I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

you do not have to give rights forging you have to give rights fees.

You must have your node equally open with my proposal.

if there is an attack on the pools network continuous forging
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

The question is "forging with what"?

If let's say 100 powerful machines are shut down by an authority and the majority of stake holders are "rich old men" who aren't that technically savvy then you are now running a network of maybe a few thousand desktop computers (or even less powerful devices) that are run by hobbyists and that is not going to do 1000+ TPS.

I am not saying the network would *die* but that it would be *seriously damaged* in terms of the TPS it could process and that in itself could cause *panic*.


1000 tps processing requires mid-level hosting hardware. Still see no problem.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
Who says you need powerful computers to forge?  And 1000+ TPS is pure marketing. There is no way in hell Nxt is getting anywhere close to that amount of transactions in the next 5 years.

You need powerful computers to handle 1000+ TPS (a little Raspberry Pi isn't going to be handling large numbers of transactions even though it can forge) and this figure is not "pure marketing" but the very *point* of TF (i.e. BCNext's *plan*).

If it is just a "marketing slogan" then I'd vote to dump TF now as we might be better off without it.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500

You have completely missed the point - once our "much hyped" 1000+ TPS has been slowed down to 10 TPS people are going to dump NXT and run (making the network even more fragile) rather than "go out and by a powerful computer to help restore the network" and that could turn out to be a catastrophic event.

Who says you need powerful computers to forge?  And 1000+ TPS is pure marketing. There is no way in hell Nxt is getting anywhere close to that amount of transactions in the next 5 years.

xcn
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
Any news about buying Nxtchg.com?
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

The question is "forging with what"?

If let's say 100 powerful machines are shut down by an authority and the majority of stake holders are "rich old men" who aren't that technically savvy then you are now running a network of maybe a few thousand desktop computers (or even less powerful devices) that are run by hobbyists and that is not going to do 1000+ TPS.

I am not saying the network would *die* but that it would be *seriously damaged* in terms of the TPS it could process and that in itself could cause *panic*.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
So I predict that in the future the vast majority of stake holders will not have much technical expertise and will simply have given their forging rights to a pool and we are likely to end up with a small number of large pools (say 10).

If those pools are attacked in any serious manner then the 1000+ TPS network will be slowed to a "crawl" with a lot of non-technical stake holders probably blissfully unaware (too busy enjoying cocktails on a tropical island).

Even if they become aware reasonably quickly they won't have enough computing power to "bring the network back up to speed".

Doesn't any else see this as being a problem?

I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
If this becomes a problem (I doubt it), it would be much easier to remove this "feature"

You have completely missed the point - once our "much hyped" 1000+ TPS has been slowed down to 10 TPS people are going to dump NXT and run (making the network even more fragile) rather than "go out and by a powerful computer to help restore the network" and that could turn out to be a catastrophic event.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
If u leased ur power u don't need to be online.

So I predict that in the future the vast majority of stake holders will not have much technical expertise and will simply have given their forging rights to a pool and we are likely to end up with a small number of large pools (say 10).


I doubt people with no technical expertise will be bothering to give forging right to pools.

If this becomes a problem (I doubt it), it would be much easier to remove this "feature"
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
Perhaps there will always be to have a public node that completely cover the network as a security measure and then the other people who want to participate in the form of pools or individually.

The fees shall be calculated by dividing the cost to keep 2 times the public nodes between the number of expected transactions annually.

This ensures the network with 2 times (like the double safety of aircraft) and you keep an extremely decentralized network

Am not sure exactly how this would work but I do like the concept of redundancy.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
The number of pools and the size of them I reach an optimum value beyond which no interest be bigger.

How many major pools are there for Bitcoin?

Understand that those pools have hundreds (and maybe even thousands) of "hashers" who can simply, quickly and easily "change pools" if there is a problem with on or even start mining for themselves if the pools were being "shut down".

So the Bitcoin network can quickly repair itself even if *all* the pools were stopped.

I am worried that Nxt will not be able to do that if a majority of its stakeholders aren't even concerned with running the software.

So shutting down the pools in Nxt could be a much bigger problem IMO.


Perhaps there will always be to have a public node that completely cover the network as a security measure and then the other people who want to participate in the form of pools or individually.

The fees shall be calculated by dividing the cost to keep 2 times the public nodes between the number of expected transactions annually.

This ensures the network with 2 times (like the double safety of aircraft) and you keep an extremely decentralized network
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