Topic: Obama or Romney ? - page 13. (Read 21126 times)

Many prisons in the United States are already privatized.  This creates a issue because it is in the corporation operating the prison's best interest to keep their cots full since they get paid per head.  To that end they lobby for laws that supply more heads for them to charge the customer (the government) for.  For example: http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/10/arizonas_draconian_and_constitutionally_suspect.html

Sure, they might be able to house the same number of prisoners for less money, but if they are using their profits to "reinvest" by turning more people into criminals, than that is a problem.  In the end, it costs the taxpayer and the economy more because we've moved yet another productive member of society into a position of dependence on the government.  The fact (yes, this is a fact) that the "land of the free" has the highest per capita incarceration rate of any country in the world disgusts me.  For more information see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate

Agreed that open borders is insane.  I believe it is an eventual inevitability that the world will no longer have countries, but it is something that must be "eased" into.  If you let a bunch of 3rd-world people into America all at the same time, it would very quickly turn it into a close-to-3rd-world country.  No one wants that.

Also agree on the sales tax.  Because the poor population is forced to spend a higher percentage of their income in order to survive, whereas the rich can save, the poor would pay a higher effective tax rate than the rich.  That said, deductions are ridiculous all across the board.  No one should be able to deduct anything.  Everyone should pay the same income tax %, regardless of how much they make and how many children they have.  And no one should receive tax credits or welfare of any kind.  That's what families and charities are for.  JMO.

On the other points:
- Student loans do increase tuition by artificially increasing demand. Banning them would certainly reduce tuition rates as attendance falls. Whether that is good or bad is debatable.
- No tariffs WOULD be good for the economy, at the expense of some lost jobs where other countries can produce items more efficiently than the US.  Whether that is good or bad for the people overall is debatable.  Fewer people with jobs, but goods are cheaper, so fewer people need jobs?
- Legalizing aliens is just stupid.  Yes, let's reward people who break the law - that'll solve our border problems real quick!
- Privatized prisons would be interesting... certainly, they could do it more efficiently than the government if nothing else!  Of course, in my opinion, prisoners don't deserve anything more than a 5x5 cell with a drain in the middle and a bowl of mush twice a day.  My prison would be incredibly cheap to operate.  It's probably a good thing I don't operate one, because it just rubs me the wrong way when prisoners have big screen TV's and Playstation 3's and good hot meals to eat, when many people who actually work for a living can't claim the same.

Sorry but if you are seriously thinking that "open borders" is not insane, you are seriously out of touch with reality. There's basically billions of people in the world that would kill to be living in America, once you open your borders, these people will rush in, now instead of tens of millions of unskilled illegals, you'll have hundreds of millions, or even billions. That's a quick path to disaster-ville.

With a 23% sales tax, the rich are not really paying the same percentage. Because not all rich person spends a lot, many of them don't. For example Warren Buffet, his life style is very modest. He would be basically paying a 0.1% tax rate on his income, he simply does not spend that much money to buy things. Plus even if the rich person do spend a lot, like I said he still only buys 1 bed to sleep on, unless his bed is 1000 times more expensive than the average joe's, he's not paying his fair share. If I was Warren Buffet, I'd quickly run out of things to buy to achieve even a 5% tax rate, because even a rich person simply does not need 1000 beds or 1000 toilets.

Basically, to implement a 23% sales tax, you'll have to look at who are the consumers of the majority of the product in this country? if you find the rich consume majority of products in this country, then 23% sales tax will work. Unfortunately, the truth is the poor/middle class consume the majority of products in this country, not the rich, you'll just be shifting the vast majority of revenue burden on the backs of poor/middle class, and would be giving the rich a huge tax cut, one they don't really need. This would further increase the wealth gap. This path usually leads to violent revolution and forced wealth re-distribution, again a quick path to disaster-ville.

You're probably right, but it's just not in my constitution to give up without a fight, so I'm going to take at least a few token swings.


Open borders and no tariffs would greatly improve our economy by increasing international trade. Removing income tax and capital gains tax likewise would improve the economy by not punishing earning and saving. Student loans do indeed increase tuition, much the same way widespread medical insurance increases medical costs. I'm not well versed on his position on that, but I feel private loans would be acceptable, but government loans and grants would not.

As for the sales tax not being "fair," how is 23% of all purchases, across the board, to everyone, not fair? Should the rich pay larger percentages in taxes, just because they have more money? They'd already be paying more in raw numbers. A poor person buying a pack of ramen would pay $1.23, while a rich person buying a tin of caviar would pay $123.00 That's $23.00 in tax instead of $0.23. Seems plenty "fair" to me.

I, of course, am not in favor of any taxes, but if there must be tax, you can't get more fair than a sales tax.

I'd like some clarification on one point, though... How, exactly is opening the borders "just... insane"?

And on some liberal website there are posters condemning the free market religion of libertarians. I mean obviously they believe that because they are irrational, brainwashed and dependent, while you believe what you believe cuz it's true.

myrkul, it's not worth the time and frustration to argue with a statist. It's no different than arguing religion. It's their own faith, and they would be lost without their savior (the state).

I just gave you two areas, he propose to get rid of income tax and capital gains tax. He propose all prison be privatized.

Let's see, some other positions he has:
* ban student loans (he think student loans increase tuition)
* no tariffs (great news China!!!)
* he also supports legalizing the illegals (though he does redeem himself by also supporting green card for advanced degrees)
* open borders to Mexicans (this is just .... insane)
* 23% sales tax (this would be so much in favor of the rich, or does he think the rich buy 1000 beds or 1000 toilets so they could pay a fair share in tax?)

How, exactly, is he batshit?

What option are you speaking of? Gary Johnson? Mr. cut all income tax and capital gain tax? privatize all prisons? sorry I don't really prefer candidates that are batshit insane.

And in four years, when the economy is still in the shitter, will you finally realize that democrats and republicans vary so little on their policies and politics that they effectively overlap? Will you then finally choose an option other than the two that are spoon-fed to you?

No because his actions speak louder than his words:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/02/romneys-record-on-affirma_n_1564644.html

Now you can read minds. Wow.


All illegals? That's an another lie.

I'm glad Romney doesn't openly speak about AA, it would be too easy to paint him as a "Racist" if he's openly against AA in his campaign. But those of us who care deeply about AA, know what Romney's position really is regarding AA.

Well, green card for minors+military service is entirely different from what Obama's proposal of legalizing all illegals, isn't it?

Well, GWB wasn't exactly the perfect Republican President, but still he spent far less than Obama. Obama is increasing the debt at a rate that is more than double of GWB. I think Romney represents a real chance to get the debt under control, he has shown that he is the turnaround expert, this is exactly what the country needs, someone that has business sense, good with money and demonstrated turnaround success. The fact that he agrees with me on several important issues (AA, green card for advanced degree etc...) are just icing on the cake.

And you have nothing to contribute except lies. Romney lies, you lie - what a wonderful company. I don't vote at all, because I can't stand liars and retards. 99% of the elected officials belong in that category.



AA: Romney didn't pick the side yet about AA: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/10/09/romney-stays-away-from-affirmative-action-case/
Immigration: He believes that unauthorized immigrants who were brought to the country as minors and have served in the military should be given permanent residency status.
Debt: I proved already that you lied.

So we got 2 lies out of 3 statements.

Just crazy libertarian talk, here, but maybe the fact that both parties have continually increased the debt is an indicator that neither one has a fucking clue about what to do with the economy?

I see you share the same business logic with Obama. Hey if Obama gets another 4 years and increase the debt by another 6T, it'll still be "better", since percentage wise, it's just a 37% increase on 16T, wonderful!!!!

Seriously? You post that shit then call someone else out on lying? Let me know when they start letting us pay off the national debt in bills denominated in percentages...

But I don't expect a liberal to be well versed in logic. You just feel.

BTW, I'm not a republican, but you're an idiot.

Bush increased the national debt by 85%, from 5.73 trillion to $10.63 trillion.
Obama increased from 10.63T to 16.1T or 51%..

Also if you adjust for USD inflation, Bush increased the national debt by A LOT more.


But I don't expect a republican to be well versed in economics or mathematics. You just lie.

AA is Affirmative Action, this issue has a pretty big supreme court case going on right now, I thought everyone would know it. Google "affirmative action supreme court case"

The vast majority of the illegals are low skill/manual labor population, they can only do manual labor. It's unfair that a Ph.D/Master student can not easily obtain green card (which Romney has proposed to allow these people obtain Green card, google 'advanced degree green card romney'), while Obama propose to legalize these manual laborers. The United States did not become great due to manual labor, it became great due to all the advanced science/technology it has. Why are barbers in China paid $1 for haircut, while barbers in the US are paid $10? because the barber in the US serve a population that has created science/technology that China can not match, NOT because some illegal Mexican can mow lawns for cheap (which is still expensive compared to Chinese labor).

As for the debt, Obama squanders money because he has zero business experience nor management experience (all he has ever been was lawyer or senator). Romney on the other hand has almost 30 years of business experience, several successful turnarounds (bain capital, winter olympics) and is known to be good with money. What's important is not what the "plan" is, but experience. When you go to job interviews, does the company care more about your "plan" or do they care more about your experience? As long as you have the necessary experience, you will have the plan and you will make it work. Without the necessary experience, any "plan" you speak of, I would be highly skeptical of it.