Topic: Official Thread: AMT - page 242. (Read 678353 times)

The 5 second average in cgminer is meaningless, as it can very greatly in a short period of time due to the way its calculated. The only thing that matters is average speed over a reasonable period of time. I am proposing a 30 minute run.
I would allow an optimization period of one week after the first units begin arriving in customers hands. However, it must be software optimization. The hardware must remain unchanged over that period. For example, the customer adding a couple extra modules and underclocking/volting them to reach 1.2TH/s would not be acceptable.
I won't wait past my deadline. Of course it is a blind bet, equally so for both parties. If we waited for it to be resolved it's hardly a bet.
As for your strange objection to "hit" vs "average", I am contesting that over a minimum 30 minute run, the average hashrate must be at least 1.2TH/s. If at some point in that 30 minutes the 5s number hits 1.2TH/s but the average over the full run is 1.1TH/s, that is not sufficient.

And no I don't lift. What a silly question.

It should be a fairly easy choice for you. Less than two months ago you seemed certain a worst case scenario would be 750W for 1.2TH/s. I'm giving you a margin of 32% over that, AND offering 3:1 odds.

True, i'll give you that. But I pre-ordered very early in the process. I didn't expect this pathetic customer service, lack of updates and general incompetence. A bit late now to be kicking myself for it.

But thanks for pointing that out.

The answer is YOU DID.

AMT is far from what a business should operate like. You think they won't have to answer to someone with millions of dollars invested in them? Please.

Don't forget, it's OUR money that is bank rolling their start-up. They should treat their current (and prospective) clients with respect and professionalism.

I don't see who in their right mind is going to 'wire transfer' tons of cash over to AMT with their shoddy website, shitty PR, and general disdain towards those with questions about production schedules and shipping timelines.

I am done preaching to you guys. Many of you have blinders on and are simply hoping for the best. Let's see if it goes that way.

Agree,  it is pure speculation.  However, AMT did not deny this. They however denied that they were working on a farm.

AMT hates dealing with customers,  so going wholesale is in their best interests.

Why deal with hundreds of unsatisfied customers like you? 

You're right, the are actually selling 1.2 TH @ 600-900 watts. How much are you willing to bet they deliver that?

Negative. If that were the case I would of already pursued a refund from AMT.

I simply want some professionalism (as well as my Miner) from AMT.

I guess i'm asking for the impossible.

Frictionlesscoin: No offense, but your theory about AMT not being interested in retail - and wanting to distribute these miners on a larger scale, is pure speculation. If it is true, they've gone about it in the complete worst way possible.

ahhhh. so you had dollar signs in your eyes and cashed out the savings account. Now the rent is due and the wife is wondering what is going on with the big scheme you had cooking.

Yes, i'm a customer. I have 1 machine on order and my close friend has 2 ordered. We went in on this together.

I'm not posting my personal information or order # due to the treatment I've received from the community in this thread, and especially AMT_Miners.

Yes, I have money tied up in this. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you, either way I don't really care.

I'm not some troll trying to put down AMT - they are doing a great job of that themselves. I'm just looking for some decent updates on manufacturing and shipping progress. Thus far I am still disappointed with the lack of information provided in these updates.

Just going to wait this out and see what happens next week. I've given up on demanding anything from AMT_Miners; he's simply skimming over the questions and cherry picking what they want to answer.

Lets refresh readers memory:

From coincraft website and specs...
"Power usage of 0.35 W/GH in low power, 0.6 W/GH in nominal and 1 W/GH in Turbo mode"

Yes, 1W/GHs is one of the specs... for the CHIPS, not the whole UNIT/miner.

0.6W/GHs Obviously requires about 0.4W/GHs from the rest of the unit, to operate. Which includes inefficiencies. PSU, fans, daughter-boards, driving components, network-card...

Not to mention that demo was not optimized, in code, I am sure... Can't be optimized/tuned until it is up and running. Also, that is NOT what AMT is selling. They are obviously not the same units. You saw it run from a cold-start, for barely a few minutes. Slight premature response to claim "victory" so soon to "estimates" of a similar "pre-order".

Unbelievable. You have been selling 0.25-0.5W/GH at the wall. When pointed out how ludicrous that claim was, you never replied, but at some point quietly updated the website to show a slightly less absurd but still completely unrealistic 0.5-0.75W/GH. Now that your supplier show its ability to deliver a hair above 1W/GH, you are over the moon ?

The breakers were installed in the existing breaker-box, the wires were run in conduit, by an electrician friend. (outside the walls) The outlets, that tie to the raw lines, were done by me. Anything at the "outlet-box", is allowed to be done by the home-owner, here in Florida. The rest, for insurance purposes, had to be done and also inspected by a certified electrician.

Only cost about $350 for everything to be done. Friends work for beer.

(As for the bet above... change that to peak, and not average, and it would be a reasonable bet. But not one I would be willing to submit to, as "shit happens". Since "out of the box", is also not specified, and "optimization" isn't specified.. I would take you up on that offer, if you allowed it to be "judged" after a suitable "optimization period". Also, once AMT says how many chips will be in my unit. Without that, it is a blind bet. You have a contradiction too... you say "hit 1.2THs", then say "average 1.2THs"... that is a big contradiction... "Hit 200MPH", and "Stay running at 200MPH average", is not the same. Do you even lift bro?)

Also note: I think I am getting screwed by the power company though... we put all lines on one half/leg of the power... So it seems like I am drawing twice the amps at the meter. If you do setup new breakers, have them balance them to the two separate legs. If you draw 100a on one leg, the meter here seems to see 200a because it seems to measure the greatest draw across both legs, as amps, but charges for watts. It seems to assume if 100a is drawn on one, that 100a is also being drawn on the other. If I had that balanced, it would be 50a and 50a on each leg, and the meter would read 100a total, not 200a total. That is my next thing to fix. (That, or I need a PF-correction unit.) Electric meters are such horrible technology. (Again, this is what seems to be happening, when I measure the timing outside. It does not match my actual draw of the units. Measured directly. Chime-in if you know the solution to that one. That solution was told to me by the guy who installed the breakers. He didn't think it would be that dramatic of an offset.)

Yes, I had the power company come to reset the meter and "test it", they said it was working fine. Sure... it only charges me double, it is supposed to do that! lol. So much for paying half price. (It isn't quite double, but it is more than measured draw.)

I'll toss in a bet here as well similar to Ioshia, if anyone wants to take it on.
3:1, my 3 vs your 1.
AMT will not meet their max power specs within 10%. IE, they will not ship production units that hit 1.2TH/s at 990W with 120V AC input, as measured by a KillAWatt or similar power meter. The test must be run for 30 minutes to allow the unit to thermally stabilize. The average hashrate must be 1.2GH/s or higher.
The measurement must be made by two paying customers, who are not involved with the bet.

The bet will be escrowed, preferably through casascius' excellent escrow tool.

Anyone interested? ISAWHIM, AMT_Miners?

The offer is good until noon GMT on Feb 14th.

Did you do it yourself or did you have someone do it for your?

Did you have to take out dry wall to install the wiring or you just have them exposed?

lol, edited that missing info above, but to reply directly...

Yes, I had three breakers at 40a, and had to add another 5 breakers at 20a. The 40a was for power-tools with intermittent high-amp use. The 20a was for each computer, to sustain the constant amp use. Gave me room to play, but I used standard wiring... Should have upgraded the wires... Now I may have to.

I used the pool-pump breaker for my porch-units. The pool is now a pond with Koi, and no running pump.

Also note: Cops may visit you, thinking you just setup a grow-operation... Told them this was more lucrative. They didn't find it as funny as I did. They just did a walk-through of the house, and left.

Also note: If you claim this as a business, get the business power rate. In most places, they charge half-price for power, and double for peak-draw. Since the machines stay running 24/7 you never have peak-draws. Home business and SSN is valid to register for business power rates. (Well, in the USA, in Florida)

Did you have to run additional circuitry to have them run in the garage?

I plan on upgrading my garage since my basement doesn't have the required wiring.

Yea, they could only do that if they put the 1600W-1800W value down, as power draw... They could do that... but it wouldn't run in America that well... too many amps "at the wall" Home fires everywhere! That is KNC's issue, at the moment, with the new miner.. Just doesn't work in America, with the "standard wall outlets". Thus, also not compliant with US power limits, for home use. You gotta beef-up the outlet, wires, breaker, or split power on both legs, which is not wise with one shared ground in a PSU. (Not at 110/120v, but it is compliant at 220/240v outlets. Not sure how friendly it would operate on two-phase 220/240v though. I only have one PSU running on 240v outlet here... I don't trust it.)

I have eight individual wired outlets with standard wiring, they get hot, running at only 1500W each.

Each 1.2THs miner I buy, will replace 1-2 of my scrypt miners. Time for them to retire anyways. I may replace those with scrypt-ASICs in the future.

Hell, my rigs are not legal to run in the house. They live out in the garage, and the back porch. They like the humidity and open air... Even at 95F.

The thermal review should be interesting for the 1.2THs miners.

When you solo-mine, your miner is not wasting "time", "bandwidth", "processing", sending your wallet or cgminer, the junk-shares. They just grab the next work-load and mine if they find no solution. Yes, it can drag a 1.2THs miner down to 1.0THs of average output. (Prior to the pool).

When you tell your miner to "give me the junk that is ____ diff", so you can submit it as a share... this is what it does...
1: Saves that hash for the diff you wanted (Has to check each result and compare it to your requested value)
2: Checks that hash, to make sure it is valid
3: Sends that hash through the stream (A stream which is shared with other miners sending this crap back also.)
4: Wraps it in a package to send to the pool
5: Sends it through a TCP boradcast, waiting for an "OK, got it".
6: Resends, if that fails... (skip this if it got back an OK, repeat this over and over until OK is gotten.)
7: Works on next load now (repeat from step 1 for next diff)

As opposed to solo-mining...
1: Check found block
2: Submit found block (Repeat from step 1)

Time lost "submitting junk", at the CPU/miner is enough to be noticed. Varies by each chip... depends how fast they puke-out info, and the CPU can direct that info in the threads, and process that info for packing, and sending.

The more "shares" (low diffs) you send, the more you lose in actual processing time. Not to mention the other-end, where you are right... higher diffs = more potential share loss, as they take longer to find. Thus, the need to tune the shares to the speed of the units. And... for 1THs, 128-256 is more "tuned" for less losses of both the processing at the miner and losses from the pool. (Seen more on faster blocks, as those do more "resetting workload", which is where the "workload-size" comes into play.)

I tune machines like crazy. Voltage is step 1, delivery and processing is step 2, cooling is step 3. Beyond that, there is nothing much that can be done. But it all matters, and 1-10% loss from dozens of machines matters a lot more than 1-10% loss from one machine. But I will go over all of that in a full review, once my miner comes.

Well they have no choice about the 6 module system.  Bitmine.ch advertises their system at 1 THs with 5 modules.  How do you think it will look if AMT sells a 1.2 THs system with the same 5 modules that Bitmine.ch sells?