Topic: Official Thread: AMT - page 270. (Read 678353 times)

I just spoke with one of the workers. Apparently they are having a delay in receiving the chips. Its not their fault companies can't deliver the chips fast enough. But he said we would receive our miner around the first week of March 1. I live about 3 hours away and have a friend who lives in lancaster who drove by, said they are real. Having seen my father start a small business there are a lot of cracks to iron out when first starting. Likely this is what they are experiencing. Also, just because people are positing on here saying they are waiting for shipping doesn't mean there isn't another 10 people who have already received their products. Think about it, most people come onto forums to figure out whats wrong, look to bitch about something, or show off what they have. Sure I am taking a bit of a leap of faith, but I have done enough research to make myself believe it will be a great decision.

I know many of you may see my account and think I could be some random person from Advanced mining posting in their favor. But here is my story dealing with AMT.

I am new to bit coin and recently have fell in love with it. I did a small experiment mining with my graphics card in my iMac just to see if I would actually mine anything, turns out I actually did. Next thing I began looking into different mining equipment, deciding if Im going to do this to find the fastest hasher I could. I found AMT and their 1.2 TH/s machine, I was ready to go trusting it was a legitimate company then began looking into the details behind the company I became very skeptical and hesitant about wiring $6000 to the company. After reading through this post and doing some research on my own I found AMT is indeed a real company and is just in its beginning. Their products seem to be top of the line and in addition a lot of smart thinking have gone into them from my discussion with their customer service. I must admit at first I was turned off, my friend and I are going in on this machine 50/50 and when he called the sales person was kind of rude to him but it was a friday night and who wants to work on a friday night. I however had a completely different experience when I called in, the individual I spoke to was very nice and we had a great conversation. It really removed a lot of my skepticism but I was still not sure. Following this I remembered the photo of the sign for AMT along with the Mortgage company. I decided to look up the mortgage company and see if they were real, I found it was, and then called them up to see if they had heard of AMT (Since they were supposed to be neighbors) and then see what they had to say about them. TURNS out they ARE REAL, and the individuals opinion said they were nice people.

I feel sorry for the AMT people but I understand why everyone has their doubts. I will see how their miner works when I receive it and let you all know.

To toss in another bone into the mix, when Scrypt FPGA/ASICs come into play,

We've shipped like 40+ miners over the last few weeks.

I'm looking forward to your review of the machine! I got mine hashing, it seems it was a faulty USB cable that I was using. I actually pulled the machine apart so there is ample air flow around the bitfury boards. It hashes much quieter, much cooler, much more steady and with much less electricity than my 80gh Avalon Gen2.

You are wrong

Comparisons with GPU's are invalid. People dont buy $500 GPU's because they are profitable (miners aside, but they are a tiny minority). Nor do they stop buying GPU's because they no longer "profitable", so prices and margins are mostly determined by the competition. This is 100% different with bitcoin asics. The first asics could be sold their weight in pure gold, literally (the chips), because they were operationally immensely profitable. Even today bitcoin asics generate FAR more in mining revenue than they cost to operate (ie, electricity/hosting costs). WHich is why you see insane high marginal profits. Thats not going to last.

Price per GH will roughly follow price per bitcon / difficulty until you approach marginal cost. Assuming the price of bitcoin doesnt explode next year like it did in the past year, the cost of these asics will collapse just as fast as difficulty goes up. No one will want to pay $3 per GH if difficulty is 50B and estimated break even on the purchase is measured in decades rather than months. So vendors wil have a choice: reduce prices or hardly sell anything at all. Considering right now, these asics command a gross margin thats in the region of 10000%, which do you think is most likely? That they will stop selling, or sell for "only" 5000% margin, until one day, "only" 100% margin? Keep in mind even intel doesnt get 100% gross margins on average. Older bitcoin asics like avalon can already be bought for $5 per chip. These chips are not that much cheaper to produce than 28nm ones.  You will be able to buy coincraft A1"s for that price this year.

I'm looking forward to your review of the machine! I got mine hashing, it seems it was a faulty USB cable that I was using. I actually pulled the machine apart so there is ample air flow around the bitfury boards. It hashes much quieter, much cooler, much more steady and with much less electricity than my 80gh Avalon Gen2.

Hey, guys, I suppose I should tell you you're way off topic like happens to me.

But it's really interesting, so I'm not going to!

Ok, let's go with the $5 per chip as the floor price.  If coincraft chips dive to that, then let's calculate the cost of this kind of system.

Add the power supply at $750.  

The case, logic board, the embedded processor etc.  add $200.  

You are wrong

Comparisons with GPU's are invalid. People dont buy $500 GPU's because they are profitable (miners aside, but they are a tiny minority). Nor do they stop buying GPU's because they no longer "profitable", so prices and margins are mostly determined by the competition. This is 100% different with bitcoin asics. The first asics could be sold their weight in pure gold, literally (the chips), because they were operationally immensely profitable. Even today bitcoin asics generate FAR more in mining revenue than they cost to operate (ie, electricity/hosting costs). WHich is why you see insane high marginal profits. Thats not going to last.

Price per GH will roughly follow price per bitcon / difficulty until you approach marginal cost. Assuming the price of bitcoin doesnt explode next year like it did in the past year, the cost of these asics will collapse just as fast as difficulty goes up. No one will want to pay $3 per GH if difficulty is 50B and estimated break even on the purchase is measured in decades rather than months. So vendors wil have a choice: reduce prices or hardly sell anything at all. Considering right now, these asics command a gross margin thats in the region of 10000%, which do you think is most likely? That they will stop selling, or sell for "only" 5000% margin, until one day, "only" 100% margin? Keep in mind even intel doesnt get 100% gross margins on average. Older bitcoin asics like avalon can already be bought for $5 per chip. These chips are not that much cheaper to produce than 28nm ones.  You will be able to buy coincraft A1"s for that price this year.

My thesis is that the price is going to plateau.

28nm is already near the limit.  Moving to 28nm to 20nm might get you like a 25% increase, but not an order of magnitude like going from 55nm to 28nm.   AMD GPU for example, the latest generation is like 25% better than the previous.

We are also reaching the limit in power for these machines.  If I heard right, the Neptune requires power beyond what residential circuits can handle.

Then you have the cost os the power supplies (which you neglect),  these aren't getting cheaper.  As you go higher and demand greater efficiencies, they just get more expensive.

So I doubt you'll see folks lowering their prices a lot.  In fact you are seeing this now,  nobody wants to lower their price to match Cointerra.   

It is $3 per GHs now for Cointerra,  possibly worse case we are seeing $2 per GHs long term.   

Look at GPU from AMD,  they've remained relatively constant with barely any improvement in technology in the past 3 years.   A 5990 board performs just as well as a R9 290x (2 generations later).

At the risk of derailing this thread, but since no AMT news is being posted anyway, I could not possibly disagree more with the above statement. These asics carry a very high NRE, but cost peanuts to produce, the only reason you are paying $3/GH is because the market can bear that price and there is a huge shortage.

This wont last. As demand dries up (due to exploding difficulty), and manufacturers get their act together, prices will tumble until at some point they approach marginal production cost. And that is around one order of magnitude lower than what you see today.

FYI, a 300mm 28nm wafer costs ~$2500 in volume, possibly as "much" as $4000 with smaller volumes currently. One wafer holds somewhere between 50 and 100TH worth of chip candidates.  Thats $0.04 per GH in silicon production cost. Add a few dollar per chip for packaging, yield etc and a 400GH HF chip will cost on the order of $30. If that.  PCBs are fairly cheap too (probably around $20-$30 for a HF or BFL Monarch board), KnC style cases cost just a few bucks, what remains is cooling and PSU's.


remains to be seen. Like most others, I suspect KnC is heavily sandbagging on their specs.  20nm finfet ought to provide a very substantial efficiency boost. However, I will only believe they can deliver before June when I see it.


Only as long as there is a production shortage. My guess is that wont last very long.

Hi, I'm one of those people who have been reading and watching this thread since the day I ordered my miner from AMT. I've been silent the entire time because, frankly, this thread became rather heated and I didn't want to get involved. Besides, I thought the whole "noob" thing was more involved than it actually is, so I didn't want to sign up. I've been doing bitcoin for a long time now and so I didn't feature being considered a "noob".

At one stage people were asking how we found out about AMT - in my case, I found out about them from their ad on CoinEx. After seeing it multiple times I decided to give them a shot. They do have quite a professional-looking website, so I bought one 80gh miner to try them out.
On the one hand I understand the several of you who have reservations or doubts about AMT. I have to admit that I was quite afraid that I had lost my investment over the past few weeks. Also coupled with the fact that there is (or was) no trace of anyone having one of their miners, not on Google, not on eBay, not anywhere, was truly scary.
At any rate, I ordered a 80gh miner on December 5th. My order number was #888. I paid with BTC. A few days before Christmas I sent an email and Jim replied that I would hear shortly from them that the miner was finished. Sure enough, this week I got an email in my inbox saying that the miner was ready for me to pick it up. I live just outside of NYC, so I took the drive down to Havertown.
Josh was at their small office, he had my miner, and he sat me down and showed me how to connect it and get hashing.
I have to admit that I was pretty happy to see that indeed the location is real, the company is real, it is indeed US based, and I have a real miner for them.
I know that Biomech will give a report on the product within the next few days, but for anyone out there thinking less of what his report will be based on the fact that he was given a miner to review, I want to add this post as a paying customer who has received his product.
Furthermore, they didn't pay me to post this, I paid full price for my miner - I'm getting nothing out of giving this report. Still there are many of you who could appreciate someone going to the physical office to reassure you (more than a google earth pic), so I'm writing this to give you that reassurance.
I still haven't gotten the miner hashing. It was working fine at the office when Josh was showing me, however I needed to change settings to get it working on my network and managed to mess things up. So now Josh is back and forth with me on email trying to help me fix up what I messed up!

Here are some pics:

http://ppl.ug/e9xgrqCkWTA/

http://ppl.ug/FxUihk9hGmA/

http://ppl.ug/eoz0__3CIq4/

http://ppl.ug/6JonrknehbQ/