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Topic: Official Thread: AMT - page 266. (Read 678353 times)

member
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January 14, 2014, 09:40:06 AM
Regarding the case:  What I would like to see (with the 1.2 th/s rig) is a shell that encases the system for shipping, but that can be easily removed when the unit is placed in a safe place for operating.  Once removed the chips are open to the air and a fan can be used to evacuate the warm air from around the rig.  This makes for a happy operating rig.  Forget the fancy shell, as long as it hashes, that's all that matters.

You need a case with well designed flow, intake and exhausting, if its done right with cold feed and hot exhausting, appropriate ducting and dumping outside the case, it can work just fine, but most home's aren't designed for hosting. But if your hosting elsewhere the case can help contain and direct the air volume and flow, but the inside does need a clean design with air cooling in mind if that's whats implemented, there's talk of oil cooling on Bitmine this will very likely require a case to hold it all together. Also its very likely be a lot more expensive of an enclosure and cooling solution.
full member
Activity: 238
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January 14, 2014, 04:04:53 AM
Regarding the case:  What I would like to see (with the 1.2 th/s rig) is a shell that encases the system for shipping, but that can be easily removed when the unit is placed in a safe place for operating.  Once removed the chips are open to the air and a fan can be used to evacuate the warm air from around the rig.  This makes for a happy operating rig.  Forget the fancy shell, as long as it hashes, that's all that matters.

+1

Let AMT know this!   We don't care about a case... we just want one just to protect it while shipping!

Agreed, they should have shipped in the lan li original boxes, thick and bulletproof. Like Antec boxes double thick.
I think someone threw the boxes away, or they got em all on pallet.

legendary
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January 13, 2014, 04:59:38 PM
Regarding the case:  What I would like to see (with the 1.2 th/s rig) is a shell that encases the system for shipping, but that can be easily removed when the unit is placed in a safe place for operating.  Once removed the chips are open to the air and a fan can be used to evacuate the warm air from around the rig.  This makes for a happy operating rig.  Forget the fancy shell, as long as it hashes, that's all that matters.

+1

Let AMT know this!   We don't care about a case... we just want one just to protect it while shipping!
newbie
Activity: 29
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January 13, 2014, 04:54:09 PM
Regarding the case:  What I would like to see (with the 1.2 th/s rig) is a shell that encases the system for shipping, but that can be easily removed when the unit is placed in a safe place for operating.  Once removed the chips are open to the air and a fan can be used to evacuate the warm air from around the rig.  This makes for a happy operating rig.  Forget the fancy shell, as long as it hashes, that's all that matters.
legendary
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Anarchy is not chaos.
January 13, 2014, 03:31:48 PM
Sucks that the "power consumption" they used for a reference, was the "minimum draw"... not relative to the "maximum speed". (But you can blame the MFG for some of that. The rest is on them, for not "testing" the actual output themselves. BTW, you don't need a kill-a-watt to measure wattage. All electricians usually have an open-ring amp-meter. You clamp that onto the power-cord, and measure the voltage on that line, and do some math. Amps * Volts = Watts. Your electrician friend should be fired! Unless you just explicitly asked for a kill-a-watt, and didn't explain what you wanted it for.)



Can't exactly fire my father!

He has an Amprobe, and several other cheaper devices. I did specifically ask for a Kill-A-Watt, and he didn't know what it was after 40 years as a commercial lineman. He was a bit embarrassed by that. I didn't want to use the ring type, because they aren't that accurate at low draw like this (it's commercial equipment: He spent his life wiring commercial installations.). Also, I'm afraid of having expensive equipment that isn't mine, as my son likes to get into things. He's getting better about it, but he's cost me a lot of money in replacements over the last 7 years.

Anyway, yeah, I was a bit disappointed at the power draw myself. Were it me, I would have overstated the draw, as I believe in Scotty's engineering principle. If you want to be seen as a miracle worker, tell 'em it'll take twice as long and cost twice as much as you think it will. Cheesy

Supposedly, the Coincraft A1 chip is within the range they predicted, whereas Bitfury chips have been kind of twitchy, so I think they'll do better on the 28nm range.

As for cases.. meh. For this little beast, the case it came in is nice looking and it operates just fine. I didn't have to do anything to the hardware. But if the case were an issue, I have plenty of old PC cases laying around. Not quite as cluttered as Puppet's picture anymore... Ten years ago maybe. Smiley I really think they should just go with an off the shelf PC case. Empty space doesn't hurt anything, it's cheap, and it's effective. Then they could make it more aesthetically pleasing, I suppose, without incurring great cost. To me, this simply doesn't matter. I build frankenstein PC's from castoff parts. Sometimes they look terrible, but if they work, who cares? It ain't like we're trying for style points here, it's about the hashing. And as it was shipped, this beastie makes it's specs in all but power consumption.

My only beef, and this could be just because I was sent a unit to evaluate, is the documentation. There wasn't any, except a handwritten note telling me how to log into the machine. I'm not a linux guy, so it took me around two hours to figure everything out. To actually get it working took five minutes, and that was just because I was being careful. With proper docs, this machine is a winner. At this point, unless the thing just goes tits up without warning, it is my intention to buy more miners from AMT as soon as I can afford it. I'm grateful to have been chosen for the free one, but if it were junk I wouldn't throw money at them. It's not. They could improve the casing issue, and should for marketing reasons, but to me it doesn't much matter. What does matter is a functional machine out of the box. I got that. Even at 1.5X power consumption over spec, this machine is making me money. It ain't gonna make me rich, no 80 GH/s machine will, but it's supplementing my job quite nicely, and at a good time too, as I am on leave for a few days while awaiting the birth of my daughter.

They got some serious rough edges on their business practices. I don't see any evidence of deliberate malfeasance here, just people who know more about machines than marketing. If they can successfully resolve that, and I think they will, then AMT will be a serious player. Especially if they can get to shipping from stock or close to it. A week from payment, for instance, would put them ahead of practically everyone. The only competition they would really have is Megabigpower, and they are way overpriced, known to be twitchy, and have had several serious QC issues. That's not a slam, they've been an outstanding company. But I think AMT can beat the hell out of them if they get their front of house in proper order.

I was very neutral towards this company from the beginning. I can't pretend this is still true. I'm not a shill, as I have been quite up front. They sent me free equipment to hopefully boost their image. Not sure how well that worked for them, but it did put me firmly in their camp. Which would not have happened if the equipment was shit. I wish them well, because I want more of their equipment. Well, I also have to admit that I rather like Jim. He's a friendly guy when he's not being hounded.
legendary
Activity: 980
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January 13, 2014, 03:07:25 PM
honestly, Puppet, I like quirky, so the build doesn't bother me.

Thats fine, when I mined I didnt even use cases. Cases only obstruct airflow and add to the cost. Who needs them ? First thing I would do with that miner is take it apart, properly mount the hardware in some open frame, and salvage the Lian Li case.
Point is that all AMT does is:
- sales  &  marketing (aka as lying through their teeth. 80W, right? Shipping first week of January, right Clenell?)
- support (for most paying customers apparently pretty much non existent)
- system design and assembly.  Mind if I laugh?

Quote
If the performance of this machine is typical of their product,

Its typical of Technobit boards, or any other 16 chip Bitfury board. No surprises there, including the 180+% powerdraw compared to advertised. I guess that will prove typical too.

As for reliability/QC, if my memory doesnt fail me, the only other confirmed AMT customer had issues with 2 of the 3 boards. so one working board out of 4 that should have been in there to achieve the promised performance of 192GH.

Quote
I am under the impression that the Coincraft series is going to be custom hardware,  that they are just sourcing chips from Bitmine.

If that is the case, I pity everyone who ordered one. With AMT's non existent technical skills, without chip samples until probably at least now, I wouldnt take bets they are able to bring up a custom PCB before 2015. Of course thats not what AMT will do. They will use off the shelve PCBs, either from Bitmine or from Technobit.

Quote
Perhaps, given the timeframe, they'll be prettier.

I dont care about pretty. But if I were a customer I would care how the they plan to remove  "300-600 AmtWatt" aka 1000+W from a case that supposedly measures 22 x 10 x 22 cm, smaller than a typical mATX case. Good luck with that.
legendary
Activity: 1274
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January 13, 2014, 03:03:48 PM
Sucks that the "power consumption" they used for a reference, was the "minimum draw"... not relative to the "maximum speed". (But you can blame the MFG for some of that. The rest is on them, for not "testing" the actual output themselves. BTW, you don't need a kill-a-watt to measure wattage. All electricians usually have an open-ring amp-meter. You clamp that onto the power-cord, and measure the voltage on that line, and do some math. Amps * Volts = Watts. Your electrician friend should be fired! Unless you just explicitly asked for a kill-a-watt, and didn't explain what you wanted it for.)
Strange, it sure looks like they're quoting the maximum draw on these units.

Also, you can't use a clamp meter around a standard power supply cable. You'd have to cut it open and isolate either the hot or neutral wire and just measure that. If you just measure the cable the fields cancel. Even if you do that, multiplying volts times amps only gives you power in an AC circuit if the power factor is 1. Luckily they're close enough in any decent computer power supply that you can get away with it, but for many of the things an electrician would wire like induction motors that is absolutely not the case.

hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
January 13, 2014, 02:51:35 PM
Sucks that the "power consumption" they used for a reference, was the "minimum draw"... not relative to the "maximum speed". (But you can blame the MFG for some of that. The rest is on them, for not "testing" the actual output themselves. BTW, you don't need a kill-a-watt to measure wattage. All electricians usually have an open-ring amp-meter. You clamp that onto the power-cord, and measure the voltage on that line, and do some math. Amps * Volts = Watts. Your electrician friend should be fired! Unless you just explicitly asked for a kill-a-watt, and didn't explain what you wanted it for.)

They will be in a tough spot if the 1.2THs machines end-up needing 1200W to run, and they only got 600W PSU's (Which only have about 400W available on 12v. SO they would need to use 3x 600W to provide the needed 1200W power. Tongue But the specs for the chips should work-out better than the other chips. Since they actually quoted the watts@speeds of the MFG chip, which is said to run now with less power@speed.)

Well, you should see my GPU-Miners... I don't mount anything! (Unless you count wire-ties through screw-holes, hanging off a file-cabinet-rack, a mount.)

As for those $500-$1000 "x-frames"... Sure, if they spent even more money...
As for those $200-$500 "laser-cut frames"... Sure, if they spent even more money...
As for that $25-$45 "mini-box"... It would house one 40Ghs board... 2x would be the same price as the over-priced PSU case... and the mini-box has no PSU-mount.

But I digress... lol. A $20 case would have been fine. For me, no case would be even better. (I have plenty more file-cabinet-racks and wire-ties left.)

A custom case doesn't make the miner work any faster, if anything, it would be slower. (Eg, KNC's design just wastes power by demanding more fans for the horrible design and lack of PSU-mounting.)

Love that pile of electronics. Looks like my garage, and my bedroom, and my work-room!

First thing I am doing with my 1.2THs machine is freeing it from that restrictive ez-bake aluminum oven, called a computer-case. (Worst design idea ever. All these years of "computer technology", and we still use such primitive designs that only impede operation, to save a few bucks. Even the expensive ez-bake ovens are just expensive ez-bake ovens!)

P.S. Aluminum "reflects" heat... Copper "absorbs" heat... Steel/plastic "insulates" heat... Air "reflects" heat... Humidity "absorbs" heat... Space/Vacuum "insulates" heat... Conclusion... Cases should be inner-lined with copper, structured with aluminum, restricted short-path exhaust, positive-pressure designs, with a humidity-booster... exhausting out into space! (Ok, the last two are luxury items!) Or be open-air designs, living outside, without a case. lol.
legendary
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January 13, 2014, 02:51:14 PM
I really don't even care they put it in a case.

Most folks always take the case off anyway and run it open!

If they sold a cheaper version without a case, then I would buy that one.
full member
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January 13, 2014, 02:34:15 PM
I really don't mind the build quality, either. To be honest, you're not paying much extra for the case, and the most important part is that there's SHA-256 mining boards in there. And they work. Well.

Besides, how many of us honestly keep our miners in plain sight anyway? At least the Lian-Li cases look pretty as they are, so you can't even complain about that. If the insides bug you so much, don't look inside. Pretty simple, really.
legendary
Activity: 1372
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Anarchy is not chaos.
January 13, 2014, 01:57:04 PM
honestly, Puppet, I like quirky, so the build doesn't bother me. I sure as hell wouldn't consider it a selling point, and I told Jim that.

But this miner works, out of the box, with almost no hassle. If it had come with proper documentation, that would be NO hassle. I got it for free and had to do a bit of digging to figure out how to set it up. That is the only problem I've so far encountered with it.

You wouldn't have thought much of the car I used to race in the Sierra's either. It was ugly and beat to hell. But it won. Regularly.

If the performance of this machine is typical of their product, and it keeps running like this, I wouldn't care if it looked like pure shit. It don't, it's actually a nice, unobtrusive case. I was supposed to be objective, so I made sure that the flaws were in the pictures as well as the pretty parts. Frankly, having the control boards screwed into asymetrical brackets kind of amuses me, though it was scary out of the box.

I am under the impression that the Coincraft series is going to be custom hardware, that they are just sourcing chips from Bitmine. I don't know if that's the case, but I think it is. Perhaps, given the timeframe, they'll be prettier. But I'm really hoping they'll be this easy to use, and as quiet. I kind of doubt the quiet Smiley

I agree with you guys that they should have used a bigger and cheaper case. But they didn't, at least for their initial run, and what they did do works.
legendary
Activity: 980
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January 13, 2014, 09:37:32 AM
I dont understand how you guys can excuse this shoddy build. Keep in mind this is all AMT does.  I might be able to excuse it from Bitmain, KnC, Asicminer or whatever asic provider that assembles their own cases almost as an afterthought to turn their asics in to something customers can use. But AMT buys standard bitfury boards, some controller (pi?) and throws it in a standard (poorly suited and overpriced) case. Thats what they created the company for. And they cant do better than this ?

For the record, here are some examples of bitfury cases that the community came up with:











credits to foofighter to Spotswood.
Those cases were made available on a small scale, and sold for less than those Lian Li cases do.

Ill grant AMT that their prices are low compared to other bitfury suppliers, but please dont call the system "engineering" and build quality anything other than it is: embarrassing.
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Movin' on up.
January 13, 2014, 07:13:03 AM
what is that thing dangling at the back?

Power and ethernet cables. Since it's coming from a controler inside the chassis there's really no other place for it to come from.
full member
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January 13, 2014, 06:37:19 AM
what is that thing dangling at the back?
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January 13, 2014, 05:56:02 AM
Don't need to worry about glue being used anywhere. There is one thing, though... Plenty of electrical tape. That's what happens when you work with a tiny power supply to host a whole bunch of things that aren't normally found in a PC, though. Not to mention the custom electronics. Even considering, it's all nicely done. Everything's all nice and zip-tied off and out of the way. Well, except for in mine, but again. Blame UPS. They made one hell of a mess of my miner by the time it got here.

I'm going to see if I can't reroute some of the wires in mine, though, because mine seems a lot more cluttered in that. Probably simply because it's a larger miner and a lot more is going on. Either way, in the process of writing that review. It'll be pretty darn in-depth, so it may take a while to post, but it'll get there.
full member
Activity: 238
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January 13, 2014, 03:45:49 AM
And quit puttin yer cigars out on the back of the case Smiley

Wish to get one to see what is up, Lan Li ? Why ?
Antec 200 are very good, two hundred two even better 59 69 bux and room for MOAR !
legendary
Activity: 1372
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Anarchy is not chaos.
January 13, 2014, 03:26:05 AM
It's more like a $140 case, still doesn't make sense. I use $17 cases on all my rigs. The internals are silly. Who builds a product with shit strewn about and hot glued together. Even taking a moment to throw some zip ties on the wires would be better. That looks really bad.

I know it's a shit camera, but really, there is NO hot glue! the wires are zip tied and well routed, if a bit tight. The funky angles look weird, they're not badly constructed.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1022
Anarchy is not chaos.
January 13, 2014, 03:23:28 AM
OMG. I cant believe how they apparently just threw in those boards randomly and "'secured" them with.. hot glue? Is that really hot glue ?
Whats the point of spending $172 on a lian li case:
http://www.amazon.com/Lian-Li-PC-Q09FN-Black-Aluminum/dp/B007N6T85M/ref=sr_1_40?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389595908&sr=1-40&keywords=lian+li+case

If you are going to "assemble" it like that?  I could do better with a cardboard box! Here is a sneak peak of their 1.2TH machine:



As for the power consumption. . advertised as 80W but actually drawing 146W at the wall. Eat that AMT shills. Good luck with your 1.2 TH machine; hope your circuits will be able to handle the "300-600" amtwatt²

² 1 amtwatt=1.5 bflJoule/S

No, no hot glue. They're screwed to brackets. Just at odd angles. Everything has at least a centimeter of air gap. I don't know if that was the intent, but it seems like it.  If you're talking the white blob next to the Cat5 cable, that's a piece of styrofoam that I dropped and didn't notice until after I'd already shot the pictures Tongue It's not there now.

I am a bit disappointed with the power consumption, though I don't think it's out of line for the machine. They should have not advertised that without being sure. I'd be more conservative. I probably would have advertised it at 160 just to be safe. It is tunable, but at the moment at least, I'll be tuning the other way to increase the hashrate. My power is relatively cheap, and this is still about the power draw of two incandescant light bulbs. It's not a big deal on this level of machine.

On the Coincraft based ones, they'll have to do better to be competitive.

However, if what I read all over these forums is the case, and my unit is representative of AMT, then they really ought to be marketing ease of use and reliability. Granted, it hasn't had long enough to prove the latter, but it worked as intended without me doing anything aside from figuring out how to access it and put the proper settings in Cgminer. The only downtime I've had is when I turned it off or was messing with it. It's well configured. I think it should be in a bigger case, and that's really my only major critique so far. I haven't yet overclocked it or messed with the advanced settings. But AT DEFAULT, this little beast kicks ass. All things considered I think it's worth the price they're charging, and likely will be for at least a month. If they are now in position to ship them on time, the machine is good. A great many other bitfury based things seem to be awfully twitchy. This one ain't.
sr. member
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January 13, 2014, 02:20:46 AM
It's more like a $140 case, still doesn't make sense. I use $17 cases on all my rigs. The internals are silly. Who builds a product with shit strewn about and hot glued together. Even taking a moment to throw some zip ties on the wires would be better. That looks really bad.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
January 13, 2014, 01:57:16 AM
OMG. I cant believe how they apparently just threw in those boards randomly and "'secured" them with.. hot glue? Is that really hot glue ?
Whats the point of spending $172 on a lian li case:
http://www.amazon.com/Lian-Li-PC-Q09FN-Black-Aluminum/dp/B007N6T85M/ref=sr_1_40?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389595908&sr=1-40&keywords=lian+li+case

If you are going to "assemble" it like that?  I could do better with a cardboard box! Here is a sneak peak of their 1.2TH machine:



As for the power consumption. . advertised as 80W but actually drawing 146W at the wall. Eat that AMT shills. Good luck with your 1.2 TH machine; hope your circuits will be able to handle the "300-600" amtwatt²

² 1 amtwatt=1.5 bflJoule/S
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