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Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 222. (Read 723903 times)

sr. member
Activity: 446
Merit: 250
CAT.EX Exchange
Anyone has deposit problem?

I sent fund 6 days ago, not credited ..

also I tried to contact support team via email and twitter , No one reply.

 

PM your username to me and I'll look into that.
You can also send a message to [email protected]

Thanks

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
newbie
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
Anyone has deposit problem?

I sent fund 6 days ago, not credited ..

also I tried to contact support team via email and twitter , No one reply.

 
legendary
Activity: 2126
Merit: 1001
In light of the recent MtGox implosion, where all customers data, including KYC documents, were leaked:
What happens with the provided documents?

a) they are deleted after being checked
b) kept encrypted, offline, in a vault
c) kept online, unencrypted, feel free to help yourself

Seriously though, I don't want anyone to know my full name, address and Bitcoin holding. Even with just one bitcoin, who knows where the exchange rate is in five years, and what gang will mug me for it then.

Ente
sr. member
Activity: 446
Merit: 250
CAT.EX Exchange
Your wire is ready to go out but we still require a few more missing document(s) (see at the bottom of this mail) to avoid delays.

As we are implementing additional KYC / AML policy requirements based on requirements in Hong Kong, we also reviewed all the past data provided before by yourself.  Unfortunately the data provided by you in the past is not sufficient anymore based on the updated requirements we need to follow.

Therefore in order to avoid any delay in processing your payment(s) that are pending, can you please fill out the updated KYC form.  

Please also ensure that the additional documents are clearly scanned (no photo's by mobile phone):

The updated requirement is:

A – 2 X photo ID (passport and national ID card copy)
B - recent electrical bill / property tax / telephone (no other type accepted)
C - copy of a bank statement / bank account in your name - should be the same account from which you receive / send funds
D - occupation detail and source of income explained on the form

We look forward to continue to support the business with you but we also have to ensure our documentation is in accordance with regulation, I trust you understand this being a professional.

Below are the documents (missing details) you still need to provide in addition to the ones you sent before.

Thanks and best regards,
Jean


My account is a verified account. They asked for additional documents for my withdraw this time. It is strict. I can apply them,but it makes me feel warning. Do they do this to slower payment? MTGOX also did this, slow and complex AML procedure.
Did you guys met it? How you think about it?
Not every one have second ID. Not every one have paper bankstatement. Not every one have  electrical bill / property tax / telephone (no other type accepted). They will delay your withdraw until you supply them. It is rouge.

Slow and complex AML/KYC procedures?
What are you talking about?
You submitted the documents required 2 hours ago and your wire will go out tomorrow.

You should instead show some respect for people trying to protect your money by complying with current regulations

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
jr. member
Activity: 47
Merit: 10
Your wire is ready to go out but we still require a few more missing document(s) (see at the bottom of this mail) to avoid delays.

As we are implementing additional KYC / AML policy requirements based on requirements in Hong Kong, we also reviewed all the past data provided before by yourself.  Unfortunately the data provided by you in the past is not sufficient anymore based on the updated requirements we need to follow.

Therefore in order to avoid any delay in processing your payment(s) that are pending, can you please fill out the updated KYC form. 

Please also ensure that the additional documents are clearly scanned (no photo's by mobile phone):

The updated requirement is:

A – 2 X photo ID (passport and national ID card copy)
B - recent electrical bill / property tax / telephone (no other type accepted)
C - copy of a bank statement / bank account in your name - should be the same account from which you receive / send funds
D - occupation detail and source of income explained on the form

We look forward to continue to support the business with you but we also have to ensure our documentation is in accordance with regulation, I trust you understand this being a professional.

Below are the documents (missing details) you still need to provide in addition to the ones you sent before.

Thanks and best regards,
Jean


My account is a verified account. They asked for additional documents for my withdraw this time. It is strict. I can apply them,but it makes me feel warning. Do they do this to slower payment? MTGOX also did this, slow and complex AML procedure.
Did you guys met it? How you think about it?
Not every one have second ID. Not every one have paper bankstatement. Not every one have  electrical bill / property tax / telephone (no other type accepted). They will delay your withdraw until you supply them. It is rouge.
sr. member
Activity: 446
Merit: 250
CAT.EX Exchange
Regarding this new "maker/taker" model, aren't those who provide the liquidity (i.e. those whose orders end up on the books) supposed to get a portion of the fee paid by those who take from the book?  This is the first time I've seen a "maker/taker" model described as both parties pay a fee with one just paying a lower fee.  This would seem to benefit Bitfinex a lot more than it would benefit traders, and I think it's going to end up creating a price divergence on this platform from other exchanges.  

A true maker/taker model (I think, and I'm no expert) should look like this:

Market makers receive 1/2 the fee paid by maker takers.
Market takers pay .3% fee (so Bitfinex receives .15%, and the market maker receives .15%).

This is how you "incentivize" being a market maker.  

this!

Thought about something similar but your idea seems to be an even better approach.
That fee structure would be a really incentive for being a market maker.

What´s your opinion Rapha/Giancarlo Smiley ?

I'm not a trader, so i might be wrong, but doesn't the new fee structure already incentivize being a market maker? A market maker only pays half the fee (or less, if you trade a lot) compared to a market taker, that looks like a big incentive to me.

mediocre incentive -> pay less fees then a market taker

but now think about the situation where some part of the fees taken from the market takers doesn´t disappear in bitfinex pockets but instead are distributed among the market makers.

= very huge incentive Wink
Oh yes, i believe you, that would be a huge incentive for market makers. But for your proposal to happen, and Bitfinex to still earn the same amount of money, they'd probably have to increase the fee for market takers to 0.3% or even higher. And that creates another problem. Why on Earth would anyone want to be a market taker if you pay that high a fee? Your proposal for a high market maker incentive means low market taker incentive. Yet the market needs market takers or there are no trades at all. But as i said i'm not a trader so correct me if i'm wrong.



you might not be a trader but you have some brains.

Nice to know that, I'll keep you in mind in case I want to share a beer one of those days...
Smiley

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
In Bitfinex's latest statement, they claim their wire transfer withdrawal is the cheapest and fastest in the industry; even more so than Bitstamp. Is this true?

Depends. Coinbase charges a 1% fee to convert your BTC to USD, and then ACH the proceeds to your US Bank Account.

Bitfinex has a minimum $20 fee, and you have a .1 or .2% fee to trade BTC into USD.

So, for $2,000 or less, Coinbase is cheap and fast. It is also USA based and regulated, which is a plus in my book.
member
Activity: 97
Merit: 10
errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
is anyone else hving problems.. having to put in their 2FA multiple times.. till it works? -_-
Nope, just sync the time on your mobile phone again, this is one of the most common solutions in that regard.

cool i'll try that.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
is anyone else hving problems.. having to put in their 2FA multiple times.. till it works? -_-
Nope, just sync the time on your mobile phone again, this is one of the most common solutions in that regard.
full member
Activity: 141
Merit: 101
Regarding this new "maker/taker" model, aren't those who provide the liquidity (i.e. those whose orders end up on the books) supposed to get a portion of the fee paid by those who take from the book?  This is the first time I've seen a "maker/taker" model described as both parties pay a fee with one just paying a lower fee.  This would seem to benefit Bitfinex a lot more than it would benefit traders, and I think it's going to end up creating a price divergence on this platform from other exchanges.  

A true maker/taker model (I think, and I'm no expert) should look like this:

Market makers receive 1/2 the fee paid by maker takers.
Market takers pay .3% fee (so Bitfinex receives .15%, and the market maker receives .15%).

This is how you "incentivize" being a market maker.  

this!

Thought about something similar but your idea seems to be an even better approach.
That fee structure would be a really incentive for being a market maker.

What´s your opinion Rapha/Giancarlo Smiley ?

I'm not a trader, so i might be wrong, but doesn't the new fee structure already incentivize being a market maker? A market maker only pays half the fee (or less, if you trade a lot) compared to a market taker, that looks like a big incentive to me.

mediocre incentive -> pay less fees then a market taker

but now think about the situation where some part of the fees taken from the market takers doesn´t disappear in bitfinex pockets but instead are distributed among the market makers.

= very huge incentive Wink
Oh yes, i believe you, that would be a huge incentive for market makers. But for your proposal to happen, and Bitfinex to still earn the same amount of money, they'd probably have to increase the fee for market takers to 0.3% or even higher. And that creates another problem. Why on Earth would anyone want to be a market taker if you pay that high a fee? Your proposal for a high market maker incentive means low market taker incentive. Yet the market needs market takers or there are no trades at all. But as i said i'm not a trader so correct me if i'm wrong.

member
Activity: 97
Merit: 10
errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
is anyone else hving problems.. having to put in their 2FA multiple times.. till it works? -_-
sr. member
Activity: 391
Merit: 250
OCO orders option is now put in place.
-----------------------------------

What is the "OCO" order option?

OCO stands for "One-Cancels-the-Other Order". This option allows you to place a pair of orders stipulating that if one order is executed fully or partially, then the other order is automatically canceled. A one-cancels-the-other order (OCO) combines a stop order with a limit order. This option allows you to place both take profit and stop loss targets for your position.

Note: If you manually cancel one of the OCO orders pair, you have to manually cancel the other one. An OCO order is only automatically cancelled if the other order is partially or fully executed.

https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/support#oco

Finally! Well done guys!
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Bank runs are a GOOD thing.

actually we NEED bank/exchange runs. to test wether they run a fractional reserve or not. We need some kind of system to all agree to do an exchange run at on unpredictable time (so the exchanges can't lend large BTC/Fiat from elsewhere in time).
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
as far as I know:
1. the english versions of huobi.com and okcoin.com are under construction; okcoin has registered an offshore company for this business.
2. both of these websites received 10 million dollar investment in last month or two;
3. btcchina.com used to rank 1st in China's market, not any more simply because it keeps changing policy on fees.
4. i still think BFX is very competitive in off China's market. but the administrative seems lack of incentive to be more competitive. they don't really care if one day's trading volume only hits thousands, part of which done in bitstamp.
5. if i were them, secure the market before those aforementioned force them to.


as far as I know:

1. the english versions of huobi.com and okcoin.com are under construction; okcoin has registered an offshore company for this business.
2. both of these websites received 10 million dollar investment in last month or two;
3. btcchina.com used to rank 1st in China's market, not any more simply because it keeps changing policy on fees.
4. i still think BFX is very competitive in off China's market. but the administrative seems lack of incentive to be more competitive. they don't really care if one day's trading volume only hits thousands, part of which done in bitstamp.
5. if i were them, secure the market before those aforementioned force them to.

Interestingly enough ,those who think they are bigger enough now and greedily charges more and more fees from people who accompanying their difficulty growing times.
Still Really so naive as to think that they could always gain customers support??



Yes,

When Huobi.com starts to offer their English Version with Zero Fees / FREE Trades,
BitFinex Lenders and Owners will discover that increasing fees and behaving as a bunch of "Greedy Bankers"
is all a moot point when you find that there are no "TRADERS" left to lend to because they have all ran, not walked to
the exchange offering Zero Fee / FREE Trades.

Traders are not going to stand for being treated like second-class for too long with Zero Voice, an Exchange needs Traders just as it needs lenders.


It's called a "Bank Run", one day the Exchange / Bank has cash in their account, the next day they don't, if it can happen on Wall Street,
it can most definitely happen here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_run


A bank run (also known as a run on the bank) occurs in a fractional reserve banking system when a large number of customers withdraw their deposits from a financial institution at the same time and either demand cash or transfer those funds to a safer / better / more reasonable institution because they believe that the financial institution is, or might become, insolvent. As a bank run progresses, it generates its own momentum, in a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy (or positive feedback loop) – as more people withdraw their deposits, the likelihood of default increases, thus triggering further withdrawals. This can destabilize the bank / exchange to the point where it runs out of cash and thus faces sudden bankruptcy.[1]


Depositors clamor to withdraw their savings from a bank in Berlin, 13 July 1931
member
Activity: 77
Merit: 13
It seems I'm no longer able to change my bitcoin deposit address on the deposit page. Clicking "Change Address" just reloads the page and displays the same address. I don't use litecoin, but out of curiosity I tried changing my litecoin deposit address and that seemed to work just fine. I'd really prefer not to link my transactions together by reusing addresses.
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
BFX team, i'm sorry for having to criticize but you guys are making some very brusque moves with apparent nonchalance.

1- Introduction of a "0.10% fee on all withdrawals and deposits" is a major milking of the Lenders, as i'm basically paying you 0.2% for a round-trip of deposit+withdrawal, for basically the exact same service? There's no risk for you, just paying the salary of a person who reconciles bank accounts. Don't you find this new fee a bit excessive?

2- 50% increase of the fees for Swap Liquidity providers....i understand that you might want to take a bigger part of the cake, but seriously, 50% hike with one simple email?

3- "Effective insurance of swaps" is a term that sounds very fishy, like the banks telling us they are using the best "risk assessment tools" and then going bankrupt when the first big crash happens. Please be so kind and explain to us how are you "effectively" insuring the swaps? It's like being pregnant: you either are or you aren't...you can't be "effectively" pregnant....

And i would like to stress on this point. If you have indeed found a financial institution willing to insure 16+ million dollars, please share with us the good news. Otherwise, if you are just relying on your ability to halt trading fast enough, or if you have a rich investor who "promised" to bear some of the losses, then we should know. That's a beaten path to getting a Black Swan event and wiping us all out. And the reasoning you are using to justify this increase is a Straw-man argument; what's the connection between your "reserves" (which for an un-audited company can mean anything) and the insurance you say you're providing?

You're a private company and can do whatever you like in this unregulated market, especially now with Mt. Gox gone. I can appreciate that, and the fact that you're just telling us about the changes and not consulting us at all (which is your right). Even so, i find this latest email a bit offensive in terms of the rate of fee hikes.

Should we expect another email in May with a 100% increase in the fees due to "effective" changes?


the recent changes were not meant to scam anybody or to sound fishy.
What we meant by insuring ( probably I didn't choose the right words for it) is that Bitfinex would have stood behind losses with the full power of its (limited) reserves.
This is by the way much less than the total amount of swaps currently stipulated ( more or less 10% of it).
I understand some people might not be satisfied with the current setup and I will think about your critics for the next days.
You might be right, for Bitfinex taking up so much liability for an extra 5% cut on swaps doesn't make much sense either.

This is the prove that in life no good deed goes unpunished.
Smiley

Will keep you posted about it

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team


Thanks for the reply Giancarlo. I know that you are a very straight talker, but please be aware that the more BFX grows, the more you need to watch the phrasing of your communications, especially an official announcement to your customers. Based on previous experience, and looking at what Gox is going through now, i would suggest you take some proactive steps to save BFX costly future legal battles:

1- As per regulation in most developed countries, customers have to have prior notice of any changes to the terms and conditions, as the T&C is considered a legal binding contract, and no contract can be changed unilaterally. The amount of time for the notice can depend, but i suggest a minimum of 2 weeks.

2- Also, please have us "Accept" again the new T&C when we log-in next time on the platform after the T&C changes, as that is the only legal proof that we have been notified and accepted the new conditions.

On the discussion of the insurance, i understand that BFX has more or less $1.5 million in reserves, and this is what you meant by "insurance", the fact that you will reimburse any losses up to that level. Please be aware that using words like "insurance" when you actually mean a very different thing (partial reimbursement of TOTAL losses for open SWAPS, up to $whatever number) can be seen as deceitful and again, will be a legal issue. As we've seen recently, you guys took steps to be legally compliant (e.g. renaming Loans to Swaps), so i trust you will give the same serious thought to my advice above. And just to set things straight for everyone, please make it clear here that you are not insuring the swaps, but simply doing a best-effort attempt at minimizing the losses in case of a crash.

On the discussion of "an extra 5% cut" on Swaps, you have increased the fee, percentage wise by 50% (FIFTY PERCENT). That a major increase, and again, it is not justified by your argument in the communication. So let's please not try to downplay the scale of it by using absolutes.

Again, i'm perfectly fine with the fact that this is not a democracy, that you are talking to us here only because you want to know our thoughts and not necessarily to consult us, and that basically you guys can do whatever you want. But, in case those $16+ millions on BFX are not concentrated in the hands of a few people (which you can convince with a telephone to absorb the increased fees), please try to manage in a better way such major changes from a PR/communications point of view. As a customer i feel deeply upset, and I'm sure you would not be happy if one of your service providers would increase their fees by 50% over night, using an argument that is not provable.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
In Bitfinex's latest statement, they claim their wire transfer withdrawal is the cheapest and fastest in the industry; even more so than Bitstamp. Is this true? Does anyone have any experience with this? I was under the impression that Bitstamp was the only reputable place to even submit a withdrawal and that I shouldn't even try to withdraw via another exchange. But it would be really nice if I COULD withdraw from Bitfinex because most of my fiat is already there and I wouldn't have to buy btc and send it to Bitstamp and sell.
member
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
as far as I know:

1. the english versions of huobi.com and okcoin.com are under construction; okcoin has registered an offshore company for this business.
2. both of these websites received 10 million dollar investment in last month or two;
3. btcchina.com used to rank 1st in China's market, not any more simply because it keeps changing policy on fees.
4. i still think BFX is very competitive in off China's market. but the administrative seems lack of incentive to be more competitive. they don't really care if one day's trading volume only hits thousands, part of which done in bitstamp.
5. if i were them, secure the market before those aforementioned force them to.

Interestingly enough ,those who think they are bigger enough now and greedily charges more and more fees from people who accompanying their difficulty growing times.
Still Really so naive as to think that they could always gain customers support??
newbie
Activity: 19
Merit: 0
as far as I know:
1. the english versions of huobi.com and okcoin.com are under construction; okcoin has registered an offshore company for this business.
2. both of these websites received 10 million dollar investment in last month or two;
3. btcchina.com used to rank 1st in China's market, not any more simply because it keeps changing policy on fees.
4. i still think BFX is very competitive in off China's market. but the administrative seems lack of incentive to be more competitive. they don't really care if one day's trading volume only hits thousands, part of which done in bitstamp.
5. if i were them, secure the market before those aforementioned force them to.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
I like the idea of rebates to market maker, I see how you can up the fee to 0.25-0.3% on trader (hey, you get margin trading with significant funding for both long / short - not too many places you can find that), you can still leave it at 0.2% for exchange.  Then the 0.05-0.1% go to the market maker as rebate.

Supposingly, this may add more depth to the order book, resulting in lower slippage (good for trader / exchanger too), and allow for more orderly liquidation on margin calls.
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