Topic: Old BFL buyers vs new asicminer prices - page 2. (Read 5498 times)

Actually, yes I could. However, I only need to show the opportunity cost of turning over my BTC to another party. That third party gets the chance to benefit from the rise in BTC exchange rate. I have zero chance to benefit from an exchange rate rise if I do not have my BTC. Whoever took my BTC has a higher than zero chance, therefore they are in a better position to capitalize on any rise in exchange rates.

We don't need to talk about exchange rates though. We can just take Josh's example: Give me 400 BTC now (worth $52,000) and I will promise you 200 BTC at some point in the future such that the USD value of that 200 BTC is more than $70,000. In other words, give me $52,000 of BTC now, and I will give you $70,000 of BTC back at some point in the future if the exchange rate goes above $350/BTC.

Oh no he has an excellent rooting in reality.  It's just that his reality is to maximize the dollars that go into his pockets.  It's a classic snake oil salesman / religious zealot tactics.  Those that question the miracle are put down as idiots and non-believers.  Once you realize that the snake oil is fake you can never go back so you will never be his customer ever again.  Insulting you only increases the possible sales to actual customers.  He will make any plausible sounding statements like the one above to draw in the people who are miscalculating or are not realizing the exchange rate effects on a limited currency.  And the beauty is that the deflationary aspect of bitcoin keeps on helping out.  Those that are or potentially will be his customers look at the above and go "why yes that sounds right" so he must be also right that those putting him down are idiots.  Let me just get some bitcoins quick to send to him and I am set for life mining $5000 per month without work.

You may be right about what people would choose but I would want the 400 BTC because it is a fixed currency and 400 units gives me much more leverage than 5 units.   

Is the pile going to be 3,000 BTC big?  Isn't that the real question?   Does the unit have value for the money spent?

-D

I still think you are forgetting what happened before you arrival.    Let us not forget the advanced announcement that was pre-order only and at the time was only Bitcoin that was accepted.  Being that your specs (June 2012) crushed everything out there by a large margin, you really forced the hand of many MINERS to run and throw coins at BFL to get their spot then proceeded to be 10+ months late while you had all their pre-order coins that if I am correct, you should not of needed because of the venture capitalist that invested in you.  If the investment was the real deal then you could of just asked for a deposit like 10% and was not refundable.  

You are not going to win this argument Josh.  You never had the moral or ethical high-ground so you in fact are just defended a bad position.  I really feel bad for you to be honest.  

I think if they did it right its a option to.  They just have had a really horrible run at time frames.  I'm all for progress if they could ship massive amounts of quality chips would be great.  

I don't envy BFL though even if they had the best chip plan, with past record will be hard to get community to accept it or invest.  They really would have to buy with their own money then sell from stock they have.  Once stock runs out mark as out till they get next batch.  Any pre-order i dont think will provide them with many customers.

Cointerra beats Monarch in every respect.  Delivery date, price, and efficiency.  Not saying one should buy it trying to project ROI% for Dec with some much hashpower being sold (consensus guestimate - >6 TH by end of year).  However there is no reason anyone should pick Monarch over Cointerra. 

In the long run I think the successful ones will.   Look at Bitfury.  They sell no boards to the public instead they wholesale chips and rely on three major OEM (US, EU, Russia).  Think of how well that allows them to focus on the core task of chips, chips, chips.  Given their 55nm design has higher efficiency (J/GH and GH/mm2) than some 28nm designs it seems to be working.  If I was a ASIC company I would be worried about what a 28nm die shrink will look like.

Even AMD doesn't make graphics cards.  They make GPUs for a dozen or so OEMs which make graphics cards.

Do you agree no matter motive, you cant obtain it without receiving a product to mine?  

And Josh i love your posts as a follower of the forum.  I like that you have your products made in KC..... makes it easy just use a dolly to move products to you hosting center.  

But have you thought about changing aspects of your sourcing and production?  If you cant make a product without getting close to a year back log, maybe find a third party to build and ship to you.  Or become a chip company and focus on providing chips for others to use in their product.

Or you could always focus on getting someone really good at image rendering and announce a PCI-E card that no one has anything close to and charge customers to upgrade at a chance of getting something meaningful.

 Effectively, yes.

 He's also ACTUALLY said that we're all "monumental assholes", on top of the implication we are all complete idiots, so it's hard to take him as someone who has a healthy rooting in reality.

So you are basically saying that the vast majority of miners are complete idiots?

Or do a "Manning"  That'll get him his own spot in the protective custody suite 

Ladies and gentleman, Josephine Zerlan!

You realize that you just confirmed that nobody who ordered from you post January will ever make ROI right?

My 5 cents,Josh:
I really dont care so much about price of bitcoin and difficulty- if i would done wrong calculation- its my bad, my loss.
But tell me, WHY, who have given you right to tell me and others that YOUR wrong calculation are still our bad?
It doenst matter what is difficulty and bitcoin price. Its miners problem, OUR problem.
YOUR problem is that you have said about SIX FUCKING MONTHS "next week"/"two week".
YOU have said:
1)Bfl will always give refund if asked
2) Delivery october/november
3) Orders delivered by paydate
4) Backlog in August ( changed in 1-3 days to september)
Jody says that was biggest delivery day in history. Jalopeno 6 day of orders, Ls none, Singles 1 days of order. Minirigs same dates.
 So. Tell me:
Why the hell you are whining here that we are idiots?
Look @ mirror. You have no rights to point on our mistakes.
We are customers. We have paid you. You made mistakes, you have lied, you dont know shit about what are you doing.
Only right you have is get our devices we paid LAST YEAR as fast as you can  and do everything that customers would be happy and even say on forum that you are idiot if it need to be said. Any of your "defence" tactics is so stupid and idiotic that even my little sister sais "Josh Zerlan is stupid kid".

And in real world business- we make calculation depending of TOD. If you miss YOUR terms of delivery, you refund or give discount or even deliver free. I dont need asics i ordered anymore, if i cannot make profit.
I have agreed bigger power usage. I have agreed to get it without power supply and still doesnt have device i ordered last year, and @ the same time i see Avalon,Jalopeno, Little Single devices ordered AND PAID after me getting profits.
Why the hell we need delivery by paydate? Becouse early orders get more profit. LS orders ordered 3 months after some SINGLE are now hashing, and what do Single do? Nothing, it still not delivered.

Everything you say is bullshit.

I fully agree, but that is my point, how many people had that foresight?

 Not definitively, no. Captain Hindsight says "You should probably have kept the BTC in retrospect" however.

You and I had a similar discussion a while back, so let me ask again the question (slightly modified) you never answered:  Can you show that the BTC you had last June and every BTC you earned from then until now was never spent, or IF spent, that you ended up with more BTC from having spent it?

Shut up and go to work 

This guy is pathetic as pr representative, should be fired long time ago.

Please dont kick me out from preorder queque.

You are likely correct regarding the average miner and the whole prediction of exchange rate back in 2012.  However the new buyers will all learn pretty quickly the error of their ways since it's going to be lose lose for them as time moves forward.  Either exchange rate tanks and they lose in fiat terms or exchange rate is up and they realize that they could've made more by simply buying btc.  Lots of changes in this market makes it unpredictable.  As the total growth rate is likely to stabilize around the time 28nm or even 17nm really rolls out the next reward halfing will be right around the corner.  The thing is in any of this I don't see how it's ok to sell product and not deliver it for a year and then justify it by saying "well if we delivered it all you'd be worse of"?!?!?